Reply With QuoteAnother day another thread where you largely exonerate the Tories who got us into this mess and not so thinly veiled blame the opposition.Originally Posted by life on mars
And yes the Tories and in particular the DUP and duplicitous pond life scum.
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Despair at brexit and the mess this has all caused because the Tory leadership over the last 7-8 years have put club before country. But today is at least delivering some chuckles. The penny has dropped with some of the erg that this is all they are going to get and they started the day by giving pretty strong signals that they would vote for the deal because of the changes. May won the staring contest.
Then Cox publishes his legal advice which is a real kick in the nuts for the ERG because they can no longer vote for it and save face by claiming the deal has changed.
Finally getting the kicking they deserve and now odds on for may to resign before brexit delivered.
If you knew the AG personally you could have made a killing from the drop in the pound after the advice was published ;-)
Another day another thread where you largely exonerate the Tories who got us into this mess and not so thinly veiled blame the opposition.
And yes the Tories and in particular the DUP and duplicitous pond life scum.
It is my personal opinion that parliament is full of people who aren't labour or conservative, and I couldn't tell you what they are, but I know they don't work for us.
I stopped when Trump top me it all false. I've reverted to watching people talk .
W.B. Is beyond us all in terms of obtaining knowledge and cascading it .
Do agree , as is the opposition which you don't seem to have a view on ,remember its Brexit we are talking about and a leave vote..
May about to get annihilated in first vote. What's the plan for the later votes?
Lost 391-242
Not good for the goal difference that
Talk of a one year delay
Election by June? She can't go on much longer
Somebody has to do it as the majority on here are living in an echo chamber, and it wouldn't be a proper politics forum if everybody was in agreement about everything. It's not as though I am posting random information either, as I vetted both opposing theories over two years ago and it looked plausable. Furthermore, it has stood the test of time far better than what lardy and others have posted.
I have to agree with your deliberations, my reply was tounge in cheek.
I might agree or disagree with your view , however I accept its researched in depth , which I prefer, than that of the "one liner " diet tribe , nasty contributors, you now see , which is line with the new abuse social media caravan of politics , now in play , on social media sites.
Strangely its not just the original nasty Tory party and its supporters , you now clearly see it exists in the world of Labour supporters, something I thought I'd never experince as I though Labour folk were better than that.
It appears that there is suggestion of external interference in the original Brexit referendum, that the Electoral Commission has passed on it's findings to the police to investigate further and Esther Mcvey has this week had to delete a tweet that spread misinformation about the EU while Boris Johnson ran away from his previous quotes about Turkey while at the JCB factory.
I don't fully understand why some are asking for a second referendum when, as far as I'm aware, nothing has changed to stop external interference and criminal spending happening again. Surely better to delay the process so we can have a fairer referendum process, following an investigation of what actually happened and tightening up of regulations around a vote, at which point we may discover the EU has transformed into a horror show or that America re-elects Trump (or otherwise whichever global leader you feel is bad news) and suddenly we want to be within the EU a whole lot more.
When I last looked, the Conservatives and DUP form a narrow working majority in the house. If they could only agree on what Brexit they want, Brexit would be a done deal.
The Conservatives don't back May's deal. Tomorrow, the Conservatives won't back no-deal. On Thursday there'll be enough of them to vote for an extension. All because nobody knows what 'leave' actually means, other than leave.
I know there are leave voters who want a deal and leave voters who don't want a deal. They both vote leave but don't often want each other's Brexit scenarios. What's the solution?
It doesn't matter, it's too late, the lemmings are jumping off the cliff at the moment. I'm currently in Munich working on a post-Brexit deal & it's a total lost cause. The customers have made their decision, all future product must be made in the EU. If we want to continue supplying them we must move.
It's a complete and utter mess.
Spot on LoM
Anyone see the channel 4 dispatches documentary “The Brexit Millionaires”. There are some winners in all this and that’s the rich and corrupt feckers
A couple of posts from the following twitter thread: https://twitter.com/OliverNorgrove/s...76277115891714
I'm no Remainer, I still dislike the EU and consider it to be undemocratic from top to bottom. I won't campaign for Remain. But I'm sick of being let down and embarrassed by all of this.The UK had to, at some point, face up to this. But its political system just couldn't cope. We fought the referendum like a general election, we triggered A50 without a plan, we never understood how the EU operated nor that Brexit wasn't a standard negotiation.Leaving the EU and becoming a "global Britain" might be the correct move but we had so much to improve about our own political system before "taking back control" wasn't going to be giving it to the wrong people (Boris Johnson or Chuka's path to number 10 or Jacob Ress Mogg making millions during the confusion) or leaving us in an almighty mess. We should have had a greater number of UKIP MPs in 2015 which may have pushed David Cameron into getting agreement for greater reforms in the EU and therefore Remain more palatable for majority, or maybe that people voting for UKIP wouldn't have been so disenfranchised with the democratic system and therefore wouldn't have used Brexit to kick the "political elite", or maybe UKIP blow up much sooner than they did in the end and people are put off their more extreme approach. While it might not have highlighted external interference in our democratic systems or illegal overspending, we could have then spent the last 3 years sorting out domestic problems instead.It's been self-deception on an almighty scale. At one point I thought, naively, that I could stand as a better example for the Leave side, but I now realise that it's hopeless. I'm never asked for input, the media cares only for those on the extreme. A recipe for disaster.
I watched Newsnight on IPlayer this morning and couldn't believe what I was seeing - politicians are tying themselves up in knots to the extent that Nicky Morgan (who is at least willing to be flexible in her thinking to try and get us out of this mess) is going to be voting for a no deal Brexit today - given her stance during and since the Referendum, that just seems absurd to me.
Ever since yesterday's vote I've seen and heard no end of politicians saying they can fully understand the public's frustration with Parliament and that people need to get together now to thrash out a solution, but, almost always, the conversation ends with the speaker making it clear that others need to come around to his/her way of thinking - they just don't get it.
That's very naive. If we weren't living in exceptional times, Theresa May would now be the fourth successive Conservative Prime Minister to have lost their job primarily because of what is almost a death wish by their party when it comes to the subject of Europe - it was a bit different with Thatcher, but Major and Cameron paid the price for trying to appease the lunatic fringe of the party who are so intransigent when it comes to Europe and now May has become the biggest lame duck PM I can remember because she is allowing herself to be dictated to by the ERG.
Then you have Labour. On one level, I suppose it could be said that they are only doing what a good opposition should do, that is, oppose, but, at a time when it seems that more than virtually any other I can remember that there should be cross party unity for the good of the country, it appears to me that whatever the Conservatives come up with, Labour will oppose it just because of where it came from. Similarly, Labour's more soft Brexit proposals aren't likely to get anywhere with the governing party because, under our tribal politics, it would represent a loss of face on their part if they adopted any of Labour's proposals.
You may not think the people driving our country off a cliff "aren't labour or conservative", but Labour, almost to a man/woman, stick to their party line despite some widely differing personal views on Brexit every time there is a big vote on the issue, while the whole situation has come about because the Conservatives are like someone caught in quicksand as they flail about trying to get their party out of the mess it has created for itself.
Maybe we should make the decision then...
The sad thing about all of this is that we haven't even started to negotiate the future yet. A few non-binding sentences about what shared values and no substance.
It feels like we are heading pretty quickly towards a united Ireland, an independent Scotland and once that happens Wales will effectively be seen as another county of England.
I live in England and was brought up here but I feel so little affinity with the UK or the people in it these days.
I would agree to a simple yes or no vote on the deal May , nothing else on the ballot paper .
In my view it gets us over the undemocratic way of changing a vote that has been delivered by a lot of people .
What would no trigger in your example?
Life would go back to normal and everyone would forget about the whole thing.
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