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Thread: Stay in the EU petition

  1. #176

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    The EU can try and convince and point the UK into a certain direction but they have no control over the UK leaving as they cant stop the UK from leaving and the UK people have voted to leave, the political classes both here and in Europe don't like it and are trying various tactics but as things stand we are still leaving.
    The political classes are the ones who want to leave. Farage, Rees Mogg, Johnson, May, Williamson, Francois, Davies, Gove, Leadsom all want leave.

    How can anyone believe this is anything but the work of the elite political class?!

  2. #177

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    Mays deal [MV3] will be voted down - basically everyone thinks that at this stage, then its no deal v's revoke and May and lots of her Government are thought to favour no deal as the people voted for Brexit, the people did not vote to stay, so no deal is the conclusion.
    So you’ve voted for a blow job

    Yes

    Ok this fat man from pontypool is going to do it

    Wait no

    You voted for a blow job and you’re getting a blow job

    Blow job means blow job!

  3. #178

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I don't think Sovereignty is " an angle being played". It is something that many people genuinely believe is important and have done for thousands of years. A few years (in evolution terms) of collective decision making will never erase that.
    It is that desire for sovereignty and self determination that will acheive another leave vote despite all the economic factors screaming remain.
    Another thing that will secure another leave vote is people, many like me who originally voted remain, voting leave to punish the politicians for seeking to ignore the will of the people. You'd think by now that they would have learned from history that any politician who treats the great British public with contempt is a fool.
    I know that the majority of MPs are/were remainers, but what evidence is there to suggest that there is a majority in Parliament who want to hijack Brexit so we can stay in the EU? I know the Labour party abstained thereby distorting the figures, but the vote for a second Referendum was defeated by a margin on a par with those by which May's deal has twice been defeated.

    All the evidence so far suggests that MPs are decisively against May's deal, but it doesn't follow that they are because they don't want Brexit under any circumstances. The EU has given Parliament the opportunity to come up with an alternative Brexit arrangement if May's deal is defeated for a third time and if that happens and Parliament is still tying itself up in knots come 12 April because it cannot agree on anything, then I would agree that you would have to question the motivation of many who sit in the House of Commons, but I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt for now at least.

  4. #179

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    The political classes are the ones who want to leave. Farage, Rees Mogg, Johnson, May, Williamson, Francois, Davies, Gove, Leadsom all want leave.

    How can anyone believe this is anything but the work of the elite political class?!
    I’ll leave it to the board to decide if these headfund managers and disaster capitalists who were privately educated thanks to their rich parents estates have the best interests of the country at heart.

  5. #180

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I don't think Sovereignty is " an angle being played". It is something that many people genuinely believe is important and have done for thousands of years. A few years (in evolution terms) of collective decision making will never erase that.
    It is that desire for sovereignty and self determination that will acheive another leave vote despite all the economic factors screaming remain.
    Another thing that will secure another leave vote is people, many like me who originally voted remain, voting leave to punish the politicians for seeking to ignore the will of the people. You'd think by now that they would have learned from history that any politician who treats the great British public with contempt is a fool.
    It’s an angle because we have sovereignty and the last few months had proved that.

    You’re just parroting all the rubbish the murdoch media have fed you, you’ve been completely done.

    No one doesn’t want sovereignty the point is we have it and it’s being used as an angle to get votes from people who won’t look past a headline.

  6. #181

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    I don't think Sovereignty is " an angle being played". It is something that many people genuinely believe is important and have done for thousands of years. A few years (in evolution terms) of collective decision making will never erase that.
    It is that desire for sovereignty and self determination that will acheive another leave vote despite all the economic factors screaming remain.
    Another thing that will secure another leave vote is people, many like me who originally voted remain, voting leave to punish the politicians for seeking to ignore the will of the people. You'd think by now that they would have learned from history that any politician who treats the great British public with contempt is a fool.
    I’m sorry mate but this is like Im reading a direct propaganda output from the right wing press.

    We have sovereignty and always have, why do you think we aren’t in the Euro? Why do you think our parliament has been able to do what it’s done in the last few months.

    So the only benefit you’ve been able to highlight is something we already have.

    Obviously democracy and sovereignty is important, no one is voting that away, but the point is we already have it and it’s clear to see from the way our government has operated for the last 20 years.

  7. #182

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    The EU can try and convince and point the UK into a certain direction but they have no control over the UK leaving as they cant stop the UK from leaving and the UK people have voted to leave, the political classes both here and in Europe don't like it and are trying various tactics but as things stand we are still leaving.
    It's so easy to attack what people perceive as the elite members of society but some of us are just workers ants who do not influence the economy and I, for one, do put a bit of store in statements made from bodies such as the CBI, which states:

    "The impacts of a no deal are vast and will impact every region and nation of the UK. From the South West of England, to the North East of Scotland, businesses are telling us a no deal would be a disaster for the UK economy, for businesses and for individual livelihoods."

    Happy to read any other statements for and against, of course (and there will be statements against). We need more than knee-jerk prejudices, sweeping statements and anecdotes to inform us if we are open-minded people. The economy cannot be sustained by slogans.

  8. #183

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I’ll leave it to the board to decide if these headfund managers and disaster capitalists who were privately educated thanks to their rich parents estates have the best interests of the country at heart.
    Croesy, there are times when I think you're reading my mind.

    Brexit hasn't been instigated by the average citizen, it hasn't been instigated to benefit the average citizen, it's all about how those with money can make even more money. Following the last recession many people are only just about getting back to their feet, even a light but sustained negative impact on the economy will result in many people losing their jobs, their business, their properties, this will then allow those with the means to buy up even more land, property, and businesses on the cheap. The knock on effect, with respect to workers, is that we will see an increase in things like zero hours contracts, a decrease in the minimum wage, and a decrease in workers rights - people will be desperate to do any work for minimum wage to try to keep themselves and their families fed and with a roof over their heads. We will head back to feudalism and serfdom. I would hazard a bet that Jacob Rees-Mogg would like to see the return of workhouses as well.

  9. #184

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    A reminder:

    DEMOCRACY
    Breaking the law in a referendum
    Refusing to allow Parliament a say
    Lying to Parliament
    Trying to turn people against MPs
    Insisting on a 3-year old result based on lies that no longer holds a majority

    NOT DEMOCRACY
    Allowing people to vote on their future


    From David Schneider on twitter.com

  10. #185

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    It's so easy to attack what people perceive as the elite members of society but some of us are just workers ants who do not influence the economy and I, for one, do put a bit of store in statements made from bodies such as the CBI, which states:

    "The impacts of a no deal are vast and will impact every region and nation of the UK. From the South West of England, to the North East of Scotland, businesses are telling us a no deal would be a disaster for the UK economy, for businesses and for individual livelihoods."

    Happy to read any other statements for and against, of course (and there will be statements against). We need more than knee-jerk prejudices, sweeping statements and anecdotes to inform us if we are open-minded people. The economy cannot be sustained by slogans.
    The Lancet has published a paper using the available legal and political texts on four Brexit scenarios to access their likely impact on our health service. "All forms of Brexit involve negative consequences for the UK's leadership and governance of health, in both Europe and globally, with questions about the ability of parliament and other stakeholders to scrutinise and oversee government actions."

    'However, by far the worst option would be a No-Deal Brexit. The Withdrawal Agreement is likely to have many adverse consequences but will also allow much to remain as it is until December, 2020. The impact of the backstop is likely to be uneven, effectively enabling continuity in some areas (in particular for medical products, vaccines, and technology), but producing a negative impact in most other areas." The B.M.A. has also warned that a no-deal would be potentially catastrophic.

    The cost of Brexit has already hit the U.K. economy to the tune of £40 billion pounds (and rising). The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development has warned that leaving with no deal would plunge the economy into recession.

    But we've had enough of experts, haven't we? Why should we listen to specialists in the field of health care and economics? So many people on social media give such cogent, coherent and well-informed reasons to crash out. Where is the evidence to convince us that leaving would be an all singing all dancing wonderful experience.

  11. #186

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie Andy View Post
    The Lancet has published a paper using the available legal and political texts on four Brexit scenarios to access their likely impact on our health service. "All forms of Brexit involve negative consequences for the UK's leadership and governance of health, in both Europe and globally, with questions about the ability of parliament and other stakeholders to scrutinise and oversee government actions."

    'However, by far the worst option would be a No-Deal Brexit. The Withdrawal Agreement is likely to have many adverse consequences but will also allow much to remain as it is until December, 2020. The impact of the backstop is likely to be uneven, effectively enabling continuity in some areas (in particular for medical products, vaccines, and technology), but producing a negative impact in most other areas." The B.M.A. has also warned that a no-deal would be potentially catastrophic.

    The cost of Brexit has already hit the U.K. economy to the tune of £40 billion pounds (and rising). The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development has warned that leaving with no deal would plunge the economy into recession.

    But we've had enough of experts, haven't we? Why should we listen to specialists in the field of health care and economics? So many people on social media give such cogent, coherent and well-informed reasons to crash out. Where is the evidence to convince us that leaving would be an all singing all dancing wonderful experience.

    My brother has already been struggling to get enough epilepsy medicine for several months now

  12. #187

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    I was against having a referendum in the first place. My view has always been if you have got issues with someone you are better of arguing constructively rather than stomping off in a rage.
    I also agree with the point made above that Brexit suits certain people, certain fund managers who have already made a shit load of money on it already. Does anyone recall Farage'so concession speech around 12am on Brexit night. It was very strange as results were already starting to trickle in suggesting Brexit may be a lot closer than thought.That simple statement made certain people loads of dosh within minutes.

  13. #188

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Sometimes you have to save people from themselves.
    The UK is skint.
    £2 trillion national debt,
    The last banking crisis cost the UK taxpayer £27 billion.
    A run on the banks the morning after a no deal would cost the taxpayer a hell of a lot more.
    the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

  14. #189

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    It's so easy to attack what people perceive as the elite members of society but some of us are just workers ants who do not influence the economy and I, for one, do put a bit of store in statements made from bodies such as the CBI, which states:

    "The impacts of a no deal are vast and will impact every region and nation of the UK. From the South West of England, to the North East of Scotland, businesses are telling us a no deal would be a disaster for the UK economy, for businesses and for individual livelihoods."

    Happy to read any other statements for and against, of course (and there will be statements against). We need more than knee-jerk prejudices, sweeping statements and anecdotes to inform us if we are open-minded people. The economy cannot be sustained by slogans.
    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the implications for the UK state if no deal happens.

  15. #190

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by dandywarhol View Post
    Sometimes you have to save people from themselves.
    The UK is skint.
    £2 trillion national debt,
    The last banking crisis cost the UK taxpayer £27 billion.
    A run on the banks the morning after a no deal would cost the taxpayer a hell of a lot more.
    the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    You know that the likes of Rees mogg, farage, and banks will do rather nicely out if it though.

  16. #191

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by rs3100 View Post
    Croesy, there are times when I think you're reading my mind.

    Brexit hasn't been instigated by the average citizen, it hasn't been instigated to benefit the average citizen, it's all about how those with money can make even more money. Following the last recession many people are only just about getting back to their feet, even a light but sustained negative impact on the economy will result in many people losing their jobs, their business, their properties, this will then allow those with the means to buy up even more land, property, and businesses on the cheap. The knock on effect, with respect to workers, is that we will see an increase in things like zero hours contracts, a decrease in the minimum wage, and a decrease in workers rights - people will be desperate to do any work for minimum wage to try to keep themselves and their families fed and with a roof over their heads. We will head back to feudalism and serfdom. I would hazard a bet that Jacob Rees-Mogg would like to see the return of workhouses as well.
    Well put. The problem is it’s been sold to the average citizen as a benefit and you can’t really blame people for believing it.

    The people who voted for it will be the hardest hit and it’s a disgrace that farage etc won’t just no be accountable but will be stinking rich because of it.

  17. #192

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    You know that the likes of Rees mogg, farage, and banks will do rather nicely out if it though.
    William Rees-Mogg literally wrote the books on it:

    Blood in the Streets: Investment Profits in a World Gone Mad

    The Sovereign Individual: The Coming Economic Revolution: how to Survive and Prosper in it

  18. #193

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    You know that the likes of Rees mogg, farage, and banks will do rather nicely out if it though.
    Rees Mogg’s hedgefund that for some reason has been moved to Dublin has made him personally £7 million profit since the referendum.

  19. #194

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    7 pages in and the only benefit anyone has given is something we already have and people have spent all year moaning at parliament because of.

    People voted for sovereignty and are now crying about parliament because of it.

  20. #195

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    2.94 million signatories. Government can "consider" the petition and then just ignore it, if it so desires. It will be interesting to see what Bercow does in terms of MV3 and whether the petition is effective in any way.
    Reminds me of the end of LOTR3..."we're going, were on our way, hang on a minute, yes we are going" 30 minutes later. Only in this case It's more like 3 years.

  21. #196

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    7 pages in and the only benefit anyone has given is something we already have and people have spent all year moaning at parliament because of.

    People voted for sovereignty and are now crying about parliament because of it.
    Far be it for me to back either side in this debate Croesy but the benefit they claimed was the UK state paid more into the EU than it got back therefore the UK state would be better off out and keeping that money.
    As a Welsh boyo I recognise what is good for the UK state is not always good for Wales and likewise what is good for Wales is not always good for the UK state.
    Wales was a net beneficiary of the EU but apparently the opposite was true of UK plc [according to leavers] therefore for Wales to benefit the UK state needs to give a portion of the money it used to give the EU to Wales to make Wales better off within the UK minus the EU than what we were in the UK but within the EU.
    Of course everyone knows that the UK Government will not make up the shortfall of lost Welsh EU money, in a properly functioning state we should get the money as a proper functioning state would divert funds and resources to parts of its state that needs it, but London and the South East get everything in the UK and even just looking at Wales Cardiff and the South East get everything within Wales such is the crazy for City states.

  22. #197

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    But putting it down to money in versus money out is wrong the way to look at it. We are paying for net benefits and we make more than what we pay in back.

    Why do you think the U.K. have been happy to pay to be EU members?

  23. #198

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the implications for the UK state if no deal happens.
    Aha, the old rocket scientist maxim. Clears it all up then.

  24. #199

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    But putting it down to money in versus money out is wrong the way to look at it. We are paying for net benefits and we make more than what we pay in back.

    Why do you think the U.K. have been happy to pay to be EU members?
    I don't know why you say money in versus money out is not the correct way to look at it, some people did look at it like that and came to a different conclusion to you and they weren't happy to pay to be EU members and voted accordingly.

  25. #200

    Re: Stay in the EU petition

    Quote Originally Posted by trampie09 View Post
    I don't know why you say money in versus money out is not the correct way to look at it, some people did look at it like that and came to a different conclusion to you and they weren't happy to pay to be EU members and voted accordingly.
    It is wrong though because it’s ignoring what we pay that money for.

    It’s ignoring the cheaper and easier trading we get, it’s ignoring the end access to medical research we get, it’s ignoring the access to confidential information we get, it’s ignoring the access to criminal and terrorist data we get, it’s ignoring the fact British people can travel easier through the eu, it’s ignoring the ability to move to Spain or France when you retire without any issues.

    It’s like me saying you shouldn’t pay £300 for a season ticket because all you get back is a plastic card.

    The net gain the U.K. get in terms of EU spend will be dwarfed by the amount of money we lose in not being in the trading bloc. Ergo it isn’t a benefit.

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