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This fella was outrageous!
Best player ever?
We finally agree on something, however I do feel Messi has overtaken him nowOriginally Posted by Wales-Bales
Great player.
However, his and Ronaldinho's idol was Rivelinho.
He must have been some player!!
Last edited by JDerrida; 20-04-19 at 20:35. Reason: Spelling
Different eras, Maradona played without protection, and the odds were stacked in favour of the defenders who were also quite brutal. Ronaldo and Messi wouldn't have had it so easy back then
yes but defenders were also, poorly trained, tactically inept and enjoyed a culture of drinking and smoking all day every day, hardly like playing the professional athletes they are today.Different eras, Maradona played without protection, and the odds were stacked in favour of the defenders who were also quite brutal. Ronaldo and Messi wouldn't have had it so easy back then
Rubbish
Oh, yes. Defensive organisation is far better than it has ever been.
Spot on
Serie A wasn't an easy ride back then, it was by far the best league in the world, and it was a tough league with lots of good teams.
I've always said that when Messi is part of an Argentina World Cup winning side I'll agree he is the best player ever, but, until then, Maradona, who won one virtually on his own, has to be the best - I reckon Wales Bales has got this right.
Yeah, back then sides would defend well for about seventy five minutes, but then their desperation for a fag and/or a pint would take over and they'd have to go for a quick slurp and/or puff when they thought no one was looking. Scores like 14-14 were commonplace as opponents cashed in while defenders were indulging themselves on the touchline - change "tactically inept" to "tactically naive" and you've come up with a full house of internet cliches there.
Granted, they are both exceptional players, but I think it could be convincingly argued that Messi and Ronaldo's goalscoring records over a period of seasons offer proof that the standard of defending at the top level is not as good as it once was. Furthermore, I'd say that the modern day liking for defenders who can play out from the back has led to a decrease in what I would call out and out defenders.
At City, we all look at Lee Peltier and list the things he doesn't do as a modern day full back with all of the aspects besides defending that job entails, but I would argue strongly that Peltier is the best out and out defender at the club. Players like Peltier aren't fashionable these days, so there aren't as many of them around whereas back in the times you are rubbishing they were the norm - in my view, the quest for more athleticism, which I agree with in so many ways, can lead to a decline in specialism.
The problem with this argument is that if Burrachaga misses in 86 and Higuain scores in 14 then the situations are reversed with neither Messi nor Maradona putting a foot in a different place.
Robson-Kanu went further in an international tournament than Giggs. Who is the better player?
I love Diego, I think Messi is the only player to come near him. In my opinion, he's surpassed Diego now and I respect anyone who thinks differently - but this shouldn't be the reason.
...great first paragraph.
It's not their fault that their team mates aren't up to it.
The thing is though that what he talks about didn't happen did it and, having seen enough of the 86 side to be confident in what I say, it seems to me that Maradona won the World Cup with a weaker Argentina team than most of the ones Messi's played in during the Finals of that tournament.
In Maradona's day, international football was the pinnacle of the game where the best players earned the right to be called great, it's arguable whether that is still the case today, but that doesn't mean that it should be ignored completely, which is what those calling Messi the best ever are, in effect, doing.
It didn't happen but the point is that it didn't happen without any input from Messi or Maradona.
Bob, I've seen you describe George Best as the greatest player from the British Isles. Can I ask why you don't give it to Bobby Charlton, the World Cup winner?
Also:
which is what those calling Messi the best ever are, in effect, doing. = which is what SOME OF THOSE CALLING Messi the best ever are, in effect doing
No, anyone saying Messi is the best ever is, in effect, ignoring what happens in international football.
Fair point about George Best, but I would say that the criteria whereby you judge British international football players should be a bit different on the world stage because otherwise you're, essentially, limiting yourself to eleven Englishmen, whereas with the greatest player ever, nearly all of the realistic contenders have played in sides which have won trophies in major international competitions.
Maradona is the best ever.
However to say its because of the world cup win.is flawed logic for me.
He did win a world cup but he also won it by probably the worst act of cheating (but very funny) of all time.
Even had Argentina won the wc with messi- Maradona would still be the correct answer.
Its not about just the win but contribution on the world stage. You are correct about messi as i get the feeling Argentinians feel the same way about him as we do about giggs
1. They feel his priorities and loyalties were elsewhere.
2. He saved his best for his club.
3. They accept he's an amazing player but not much 'love' there.
Completely agree with this.
Although the world cup is a superb competition it's definitely below standards of the champions league.
I don't think you can exclude someone becausel they didn't win what someone else did. As you could just say Maradona isn't as good as didn't win the European cup.
Messi goalscoring record is unbelievable and whilst you could make the arguement he has had some of the best players in world play beside him, on the flip side he still stands head and shoulders above those players.
Henry and Suarez were probably 2 of the best players the PL has seen and Messi is still the focal point, same with Neymar
He did win a world cup but he also won it by probably the worst act of cheating (but very funny) of all time.[/QUOTE]
I never see the reason people say he cheated, the decision to award that goal was purely down to the officials not him. Was he expected to run to the ref after the goal was awarded and tell him to disallow it? The Chelsea player who put the ball in the net against us the other week, did he cheat,? His goal was just as ‘against the laws of the game, with the same outcome as Maradona’s’, should he have run to ref to tell him that he was offside? Roger Hunt in 1966, did he cheat? Raising his arm to convince the officials that Hurst’s shot had crossed the line? Nah, Maradona’s punched in goal was down to bad refereeing, not him, there’s goals galore that have been awarded the same way. Maradona’s is rammed down our throats by an enraged English press, the same press that would have purred with delight had someone like Gascoigne had scored one like it. ‘Gazza Hands It To The Argies’ would have been the Sun’s screaming headline no doubt.
I never see the reason people say he cheated, the decision to award that goal was purely down to the officials not him. Was he expected to run to the ref after the goal was awarded and tell him to disallow it? The Chelsea player who put the ball in the net against us the other week, did he cheat,? His goal was just as ‘against the laws of the game, with the same outcome as Maradona’s’, should he have run to ref to tell him that he was offside? Roger Hunt in 1966, did he cheat? Raising his arm to convince the officials that Hurst’s shot had crossed the line? Nah, Maradona’s punched in goal was down to bad refereeing, not him, there’s goals galore that have been awarded the same way. Maradona’s is rammed down our throats by an enraged English press, the same press that would have purred with delight had someone like Gascoigne had scored one like it. ‘Gazza Hands It To The Argies’ would have been the Sun’s screaming headline no doubt.[/QUOTE]
Haven't got a problem with what he did. I approve of it as was so funny. However the point was its not all about winning. Had the ref seen that Argentina could have gone out. Maradona would still be best ever though.
Haven't got a problem with what he did. I approve of it as was so funny. However the point was its not all about winning. Had the ref seen that Argentina could have gone out. Maradona would still be best ever though.[/QUOTE]
You called it probably the worst act of cheating you’d ever seen😂😂😂
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