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What were Liverpool before Shankly? Well, the season before he took over in 1959, they were the eighth biggest club in the country in terms of attendances despite being in the Second Division. Indeed, during the two previous seasons they had the fifth highest attendances in the country despite being in the Second Division. If you know your football history, you'll know that Liverpool were a big club before Shankly, and a bigger club after Shankly.
As for Leeds, they really were struggling before Revie and had never been a big club until he worked his magic.
Mid-size for me.
I get the impression there are many towns/cities that are much more ‘football towns’ than Cardiff, by which I mean they have a high proportion of locals with a sustained interest in their local club. ‘Er indoors is from the North of England and football feels bigger to me there.
Fair enough about Liverpool but they didn’t win anything til he arrived and with their success they soon became a global name , City had good attendances in the 50s too , but my main point being, after being so long in the doldrums the only way we can grow as a club is with success and for us that would be establishing ourselves in the premier league and maybe do well in the cup competitions , we reached both domestic finals whilst being a championship club so that has to be our aim
I agree with the above, we are basically a Championship club. And we are lucky to be that after what happened in the mid 80s with two successive relegations and ending up in Division 4. It took us 17 years to get back up to the second level.
Clubs like Leicester and Wolves have a far richer history than us, Wolves won the League 3 times in the 10 years after WW2. Championship clubs like Blackburn, Derby, Villa, Leeds, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesbrough have all consistently played at higher level than us and won trophies. Even Fulham have played at the top level for years. Although clubs like Fulham and Watford have never won anything major, or Brighton I don't think. Even Coventry had about 30 years in the top tier.
Doesn't mean we can't change it though does it? A big missed opportunity though this season, and will we be strong enough next season when we have to compete with clubs like Derby, Leeds, Villa, WBA (well three of them), Huddersfield, Fulham, Sheff W , Middlesbrough and others. Even super Bristol City will off on the quest to conquer Europe again next season!!!
In fact, Liverpool were league champions twice in the 1920's and once in the 1940's.
Between 1896 and when Shankly arrived at Liverpool in 1959, there had been just two seasons in which the club had finished outside the top ten in England and Wales in terms of attendances. They've almost always been a big club.
Your points about Cardiff are valid, though.
I'm not sure why people keep going as far back as the Eighties. What happened then is surely an irrelevance in terms of what is happening now? After all, Bournemouth, Burnley, Wolves and Sheffield United also spent time in Division Four in the Eighties. They'll all be playing Premier League football next season.
The club and its support is completely different from the 80s. Im pretty sure we were getting 5000 crowds last season there in the 80s.
The club is all set up for PL football now.
Love the Championship but the PL should be the aim.
I wonder where this arrogance come from.
Cardiff City. Two seasons of top flight football in 57 years, both ending in relegation. Crowds of 12,000 in the latter stages of a promotion campaign just 12 months ago. One season with an average of 31,000 and suddenly the club is as big as Premier League champions before last Leicester City.
Cardiff City, shirt sponsorship a negligible amount, from a company that exists, but doesn't pay anything. A sponsorship that brings in £1m less a year than Bournemouth, and Leicester. It is £2m less than that small club Burnley, and little old Wolves have a sponsorship deal that is more than 3 times that of Cardiff.
Cardiff are as "big" as the other 23 teams in the Championship next season. They are smaller than the 20 teams in the Premier League, and if you will insist on using one season of day trippers as sign of the club being big, then I look forward to you accepting arguments of the club being small when their crowds are hitting 12,000 the season after next.
Big clubs don't have to rebrand.
I would include the population from an easy hours drive from Cardiff, so the valleys to Neath to Abergavenny. The further away from the epicentre the less direct support we will get.
When I was in LA to see the Dodgers in the semi finals of the world series, there were fans from well over 200 miles away as the Dodgers were their local teams.
I know Americans are used to travelling great distances, but similar will happen with Cardiff if we stay in the Premier League.
I hate the term, but we become the franchise Premier team for the region and the longer relative success remains the greater support we will retain.
Wales and the West Country are so bad at football, that any relative success will be welcomed by those who don't live or support the likes of Swansea or Bristol.
Compare Man City and United and the North West.
The majority of us were wanting Wrexham to get through the National League final to hopefully get into the old 4th Division.
Today Fylde are playing Salford!!!
Newport drew 1-1 at home to Mansfield. How many teams are in Mansfield's region. The winner of that tie will play Tranmere or Forest Green.
Forest Green is tiny, but get fans from around that area and that happens at that level.
If City had a sustained period in the Premier League, then for a lot of people we would become 'their' Premier League team.
We could comfortably average 45 to 50,000 attendances at that stage.
We're a decent sized club with a fair bit of potential to grow into
A flaw in your thinking, if I may be so bold, is that there are often hundreds of miles between American sporting teams but a radius 200 miles from Cardiff would include a multitude of other football teams, including those in London and the Midlands! Going to see one's nearest club is a different kettle of fish here altogether.
Not really making any original points here, but I agree that its hard to define what constitutes a big club. The biggest clubs tend to be the most successful, as that's who the plastics gravitate towards. The odd team/area stands out as keeping crowds during the bad times. Sunderland averaged about 31k this season, Newcastle kept crowds during their relegations. The Sheffield teams also seem to keep a large following. Cardiff certainly aren't a 'big club' in the same way as those kind of teams are. But like most teams, with a bit of success I'm sure we'll continue to grow. As for the catchment area argument, that's absolute rubbish. There are numerous other sides within that 'catchment area' for a start. Secondly, many in south Wales seem to just turn up for big events, or choose to be plastics and support utd, arsenal etc.
Interestingly as it stands we'll have the 6th biggest stadium in the league next season, 5th if one of Villa, Leeds or Derby win the playoffs
Maybe I didn't make it clear that I was using the LA scenario as an example and that Cardiff could become OUR region's team, not just the city of Cardiff and the immediate surrounding areas.
Regions who are devoid of Premier League or even Championship teams, may support a relatively local team in those leagues if they want their higher quality football fix.
If Bristol City got to the Premier League then surely they would have a huge catchment area, as there is very little high end football in the region.
Same applies to Cardiff.
If Bristol City got to the Premier League then surely they would have a huge catchment area, as there is very little high end football in the region.
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Now you’ve entered into the realms of fantasy😂😂😂👍