Reply With Quotewhats the answer ,how would you unravel thisOriginally Posted by CardiffIrish2
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whats the answer ,how would you unravel this
That does demonstrate how conflicted they are over Europe ,why doesn't Labour ,bugger this lets take the opposite view , it cant ,can it as its held to ransom by its leader and worried that they would lose 26 odd seats to Brexit????????
Well for a start I’d apportion the blame for the fiasco that this has quite rightly occurred at the doorstep of the Conservative party.
We’ve had a general election since last referendum so democracy is ok when they tell us.
Have a second referendum.
Three choices:
1. Leave no deal
2. Remain
3. Leave on Mays deal.
You really think that the main lesson to be learned from that poll is that the Labour leader, and a small number of loyalists, is still unwilling to commit to a definitive position on Brexit?
No its shows how fragmented they are , they need to take a single policy position of leave or stay , and get of the fence . The Tories had the same divide , that resulted in a removal of its leader as they felt it wasn't in tune with the majority of Tory membership , ( surely the sudden rise of the Brexit party can't be ignored ) The will have a string leave policy if as it seems Boris gets in ??
I don't think anyone really wants a second referendum it would be so undemocratic on a single choice question to now go back and lets be honest in attempt to overturn it.
The Labour party could come out and say s second referendum is their policy ,however I don't think they will ( well not in a clear way ) the Liberals and SNP stance is very clear
Well I want a second referendum for a start and that sweeping generalisation is worthy of Boris Johnson. As I know you don’t like the Tories as you say you do you need to be careful there.
I’ll call it is as I think it, now we’ve got the facts as we’ve had a proper debate put it back to the people.
We are leaving on the 31st October. Make a note of it on your calendar.
Thanks Boris 👍
And that is right .
So why doesnt part of the Labour party come out clearer on the subject, such as this
" we unilaterally now support a second referendum" ( with no other side comment or strings )
Boris has been using the 'f' word to someone much closer than Channel 4.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-johnsons-home
Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.
The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.
A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.
The neighbour said they recorded the altercation from inside their flat out of concern for Symonds. On the recording, heard by the Guardian, Johnson can be heard refusing to leave the flat and telling Symonds to “get off my ****ing laptop” before there is a loud crashing noise.
Symonds is heard saying Johnson had ruined a sofa with red wine: “You just don’t care for anything because you’re spoilt. You have no care for money or anything.”
The neighbour said: “There was a smashing sound of what sounded like plates. There was a couple of very loud screams that I’m certain were Carrie and she was shouting to ‘get out’ a lot. She was saying ‘get out of my flat’ and he was saying no. And then there was silence after the screaming. My partner, who was in bed half asleep, had heard a loud bang and the house shook.”
I wonder how that will play in the blue-rinse shires?
As the world has gone mad (official) they'll probably love it. Man of the people innit.
I think we need to hear the tapes just to be sure
I totally agree.
That’s why I ****ed off to vote Plaid in Euros.
He’ll win by even more and that bell end Brendan O’Neil is no doubt writing an article.with a tag line:
Police! No, they’re thought Police
I did the same , sometimes it's good to be brave ,yes they will lose seats and votes, but surely that's better than not being truthful to the people, they should be better than the other lot .
Sounds to me like he is a spoilt, privately educated, self-centred, prat; and he wants to be the next prime minister!
What will be your excuse when/if you hear the "tapes"?I think we need to hear the tapes just to be sure
It'll be dismissed as "fake news". From my own perspective, sadly I believe that in the modern day Conservative and Unionist Party (the party that, apparently, is willing to see the break up of the union as long as Brexit is achieved, even without a deal, and has members willing to overlook Johnson's past behaviour on the grounds that someone's private life is their own) it will make no difference at all - far too many of the people who would be moved to try to ensure such a man never got near 10 Downing Street are getting no say whatsoever in who should be our next Prime Minister.
Looking at the press coverage this morning and some of the comments contained in Conservative supporting papers, I might be wrong there.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48727620
No I dont , I just find their overall position on this issue over the last two years bewildering to say the least , a better strategy may have them in or close to power by now, as its widely recognized this government is dreadful , and should be slaughtered in the polls by now ?
The Labour Party straddles the Leave/Remain divide more than any other party in the UK parliament. The Tories are way over on the Leave side of the argument and all the others bar Labour are clearly for one side or the other - making life very simple.
It is clear that a significant minority of Labour MPs and members want to see Brexit delivered (even if they voted Remain in 2016) but when it comes to Labour voters, and especially Labour voters in Midlands or northern Labour-Tory marginals the size of the Brexit support becomes a major problem for the party.
As a Remain voter I hoped to see Labour adopt a more aggressive 2nd referendum and Remain position earlier, but I can fully understand the decision to adopt 'constructive ambiguity', let the Tories rip themselves apart, argue for a general election and concentrate on all the non-Brexit issues which have been ignored for over 3 years.
But I think the road has now run out. After the Euro and local elections it is not enough for Labour to be just less damaged than the Tories - they have to somehow drop the ambiguity and argue hard as a minimum for a new vote on Brexit, not as something in the middle distance, but something that has to happen in a defined timescale. Corbyn is edging closer to that but hasn't taken the final step (unlike MacDonald, Abbott, and media supporters like Owen Jones and Paul Mason). Labour will be hurt by that, but they will be hurt (by Brexit, LibDems, nationalists and Greens) if they don't.
The one thing that sticks in my craw though is the cynical posturing of Tom Watson and his mates. Like many others in the PLP he is more concerned with the parliamentary Labour civil war and scoring points off Corbyn, than with steering the party to a new policy position. It is the principled Remainers like Clive Lewis that I take notice of (as well as some of the minority of 'deliver Brexit' MPs like Lisa Tandy who have also argued their case responsibly and effectively).
As it seems to be "Remainers" who are calling for a second referendum, can anyone tell me... do they expect to overturn the original decision and if so, where is the evidence that there will be such a swing in the vote? I have not seen any opinion polls which suggest that, but I may have missed them.
I have read or listened to a few pollsters around Brexit views in the last few years and most say that opinions have not move much, apart from hardening on both sides. No one trusts polls any more, but the last one that stuck in my head (from John Curtice at Strathclyde University) suggested that 20% of Leavers had switched and 10% of Remainers. Combine that with a hope or belief in Remain circles that more pro-EU youngsters have come on to the electoral roll since 2016, and more anti-EU pensioners have died, and there is a view in the Remain bubble that support has changed from 48%-52% to 55%-45% or something like that.
I don't trust the polls though. I also think there are a number of former Remain voters who have bought into the 'once in a lifetime decision' argument and have come around to accepting Brexit. Some might even vote for it or abstain because they have been convinced that a second referendum would be antidemocratic. I think that argument is ludicrous, but it may well have some traction.
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