Oriental....

[Croesy Blue]

That is my point. It’s a vile word, and no matter it’s history, it should be stamped on every time it’s used, by anyone of any colour.

Even though there's a history of reclaimed words making the original offensive remark lose it's power? It's up for debate sure but I don't think saying "black folk should stop saying it" is the way to put the argument across.

[rudy gestede]

You seem to accept the word being used by black folk, because of “history and context”, when in reality, it’s like hundreds of other racist and derogatory words and term that are vile, disgusting and outdated, and no matter it’s original origin, should be condemned to the bin.

But what about words like queer and Yid that were reclaimed and stopped being offensive?

It would be better if it wasn’t being used at all but the fact it’s still constantly being used by racists means there’s more power in black people saying it than not.

[the other bob wilson]

So, is it okay to keep on calling them Leyton Orient?

This seems a fair summary of how "oriental" should be used to me, but I daresay some will find a problem with it;-

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...?term=oriental

[Pedro de la Rosa]

But what about words like queer and Yid that were reclaimed and stopped being offensive?

It would be better if it wasn’t being used at all but the fact it’s still constantly being used by racists means there’s more power in black people saying it than not.

Yid has not been reclaimed. It is offensive.

Also, just don't say the n word. It isn't hard, it isn't something that is in my daily usage. If black people want to say it, then let them.

[William Treseder]

But what about words like queer and Yid that were reclaimed and stopped being offensive?

It would be better if it wasn’t being used at all but the fact it’s still constantly being used by racists means there’s more power in black people saying it than not.

I don’t agree with your logic at all. To me, words like Queer and yid still sound offensive, and no matter how many times they get “reclaimed”, they always will.
Racism has been around since time began. Bourne of ignorance and fear of something that’s different.
We have made greAt strides in trying to educate people that it’s wrong, but it will never get eradicated from society completely.
All we can do is carry on trying to educate folk about how pathetic racism really is and condemn as many racist words and terms to the dustbin.
Do you think it would be acceptable in today’s society for disabled folk to go around describing themselves and other other disabled folk as Spastics? It wouldn’t. It’s another vile word and term that needs to remain buried, and not “reclaimed”.

[Croesy Blue]

Yid has not been reclaimed. It is offensive.

Also, just don't say the n word. It isn't hard, it isn't something that is in my daily usage. If black people want to say it, then let them.

Do people go through life wanting to be offensive to people? I never get what's so hard about this and why a lot of people find it so outrageous they can't say offensive things to people with no consequences.

I wouldn't call someone fat or ugly and if I did I'd expect consequences.

[William Treseder]

Even though there's a history of reclaimed words making the original offensive remark lose it's power? It's up for debate sure but I don't think saying "black folk should stop saying it" is the way to put the argument across.

I’m saying anyone of any colour should stop using it.

[rudy gestede]

I don’t agree with your logic at all. To me, words like Queer and yid still sound offensive, and no matter how many times they get “reclaimed”, they always will.
Racism has been around since time began. Bourne of ignorance and fear of something that’s different.
We have made greAt strides in trying to educate people that it’s wrong, but it will never get eradicated from society completely.
All we can do is carry on trying to educate folk about how pathetic racism really is and condemn as many racist words and terms to the dustbin.
Do you think it would be acceptable in today’s society for disabled folk to go around describing themselves and other other disabled folk as Spastics? It wouldn’t. It’s another vile word and term that needs to remain buried, and not “reclelaimed”.

But plenty of disabled people do use terms like that to describe themselves. That’s why context is important. Do you find all forms of self deprecation to be bad?

Loads of gay people use queer, it would still be offensive to use it as an insult by someone else.

[Croesy Blue]

I’m saying anyone of any colour should stop using it.

I agree that would be great, but racists are never going to stop using it.

[William Treseder]

But plenty of disabled people do use terms like that to describe themselves. That’s why context is important. Do you find all forms of self deprecation to be bad?

Loads of gay people use queer, it would still be offensive to use it as an insult by someone else.

That’s where “context” can become a minefield.
The sad fact is, that people have had to start using the very words that so offend them, in order to build up a barricade to go through their lives.
It’s the very same reason, we sing “1 nil to the sheep shaggers”. We are degrading ourselves, before other people get the chance.
It’s just my opinion, but all racist words and terms should not be used at all by anyone, including the folk they are aimed at.
It might look like I’m looking for a utopia, but it’s the only way to keep fighting racism and bullying, not to succumb and use these terms just in order to be accepted.

[Croesy Blue]

I agree, but I think if the racists aren’t going to stop using the terms it’s a bit of a dangerous game to see that people being abused shouldn’t use them.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

That’s where “context” can become a minefield.

Seriously, who actually cares? Just don't say the words. If it's questionable, use something else. If you're black, you can't say that. If you're not gay, don't say any homophobic slurs. If you're not Jewish, don't say anti semitic stuff.

[William Treseder]

I agree that would be great, but racists are never going to stop using it.

I agree. But leave the vile words and terms to the racists. There will always be pig ignorant, thick as shit racists around.
They need to be outed and ostracised, not things made easier for them.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

I agree. But leave the vile words and terms to the racists. There will always be pig ignorant, thick as shit racists around.
They need to be outed and ostracised, not things made easier for them.

Who or what is making it easier for them? There will always be racists. Our next PM is a racist, for starters.

[William Treseder]

Seriously, who actually cares? Just don't say the words. If it's questionable, use something else. If you're black, you can't say that. If you're not gay, don't say any homophobic slurs. If you're not Jewish, don't say anti semitic stuff.

Well I care for one. If you go back to your 1st reply to my 1st post in this thread, you appear to have got me all wrong.
I just felt I needed to explain my feelings on the topic a bit clearer. 👍

[William Treseder]

Who or what is making it easier for them? There will always be racists. Our next PM is a racist, for starters.

The victims of racism and bullying are making it easier, by using those very same words and terms to insult themselves..

[William Treseder]

The victims of racism and bullying are making it easier, by using those very same words and terms to insult themselves..

As for our next PM being a racist. Then he needs to be called out on it constantly and at every opportunity.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

As for our next PM being a racist. Then he needs to be called out on it constantly and at every opportunity.

Most people are aware, they just don't care because he's a Tory.

[NYCBlue]

For whatever reason, it's considered offensive. So just don't use it to describe a person. I shouldn't imagine this will have much of an impact on your everyday life.

[delmbox]

How old are you? My point is, it’s a horrible word that nobody of any colour should be using anymore.
It’s akin to Welsh folk getting in 1st, and describing themselves as sheep shaggers.

Have you ever been to a Cardiff City match? We literally sing 1-0 to the sheep shaggers

[William Treseder]

Have you ever been to a Cardiff City match? We literally sing 1-0 to the sheep shaggers

Seeing as you’re only 36, then I’d wager I’ve been to hundreds more City games than you. Also if you look a bit further up the thread, I’ve actually said “ when we sing “1 nil to the sheep shaggers”.
Never mind. Don’t let that stop you and others who like to jump into a thread without reading through it and spout a load of pish. 👍

[delmbox]

Seeing as you’re only 36, then I’d wager I’ve been to hundreds more City games than you. Also if you look a bit further up the thread, I’ve actually said “ when we sing “1 nil to the sheep shaggers”.
Never mind. Don’t let that stop you and others who like to jump into a thread without reading through it and spout a load of pish. ��

I can absolutely promise you it won't

[Moodybluebird]

Very entertaining thread but I still can't believe the original post. Are we trying to decimate the English language ? To my mind the word oriental means of the east, end of story. No ifs or buts or maybes. It's been the answer to so many crossword clues over the years (and still is) I find it laughable that anyone can consider the word offensive. I hate political correctness at the best of times and if this is what the future holds I feel sorry for the up and coming generation, whose mother tongue gets diluted week by week. This is not me condoning the n word or the like, which are rightly considered to be offensive but we have to draw the line somewhere.

[William Treseder]

I can absolutely promise you it won't

Good for you. At least you’ll be consistent 👍

[Rjk]

Very entertaining thread but I still can't believe the original post. Are we trying to decimate the English language ? To my mind the word oriental means of the east, end of story. No ifs or buts or maybes. It's been the answer to so many crossword clues over the years (and still is) I find it laughable that anyone can consider the word offensive. I hate political correctness at the best of times and if this is what the future holds I feel sorry for the up and coming generation, whose mother tongue gets diluted week by week. This is not me condoning the n word or the like, which are rightly considered to be offensive but we have to draw the line somewhere.

The word itself isn't offensive, I don't think anyone has said it was.
If I said the "new girl in work is an oriental" then that does seem a little ignorant and offensive. By no means as obliquely offensive as some things, but certainly not something I would say, it just doesn't seem right.

Other things like, some artwork or a rug for example it wouldn't seem as bad.

I absolutely do not feel sorry for the younger generation that they are more aware of the intricacies of these things when talking to people of different backgrounds. They will inevitably be more successful at it than older generations and that can only lead to richer and more fulfilling lives.