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This is the "reluctant politician" who has tried to become an MP seven times I take it?Originally Posted by City123
If it is really a "them and us" world, then Messrs Farage, Johnson, Trump, Rees-Mogg etc. etc. are decidedly on the them side of the divide.
That's a very worrying comment on a number of levels. It's anti success and education, discouraging to kids who might go on to achieve anything in life for fear of crossing the "divide" and offending their families, and plain wrong.
Perhaps you think that Junkers and the various former Nazis who invented the EU have more in common with you than Nigel Farage.
Again, very Wales Balesish with the last part of your second paragraph being plain ridiculous.
Well, you know I was thinking when reading another thread this morning that this whole multi identity nonsense is another example of what I said a few posts back of people subconsciously searching for an alternative to their opinion being the minority one and diminishing contrary opinions.
I must be Wales Bales because I've apparently said similar things to him, ( and I don't know what he's said incidentally because I only recently joined here). Therefore I must be the same person because it's impossible that two different people can form an opinion which is different to your own .
Why's my last paragraph ridiculous ? Presumably it's because I said that former Nazis invented the EU, but actually what's ridiculous is that people don't know that because they haven't studied the matter but are happy to accept the vague explanations they see on the media , or have never wondered how this project started . If that's what you're calling ridiculous I can certainly prove it if you'd like me to.
And since this Wales Bales being me bollocks ,( which actually IS ridiculous), keeps running on, check it out yourself.
https://www.iptrackeronline.com/
Yeah ok Wales Bales 😂
I say that I don't consider four men who try to pass themselves off as "men of the people" (second thoughts, that should be three, because it would be impossible for Rees-Mogg to do that) as not being "one of us" and you go off on one about Nazis - you need to calm down a bit.
I couldn't care less if you are or are not Wales Bales, all I've ever said is that you don't half sound like him at times.
Well there you go then. I'm not him.
I didn't "go off on one " about Nazis either. It's a recorded fact that the founders of the EU , one of whom was a very strange character called Kalergy and others were former Nazis quite openly stated that they wanted to pursue the idea of a single European Superstate envisioned by Hitler and Napoleon by other means since military conquest had failed. They were quite open about this at the time, as was Kalergi about flooding Europe with Moslems, and you can read all about it in their own words.
They were also quite open about the plan to sell the scheme as an economic union initially then unite and resume a more militaristic nature.
Lots of people don't know this because they haven't bothered to read the books and contemporaneous records, and this results in anyone who mentions it being called a nutter, but it is nonetheless true.
Why can't some people be " one of us" ?
If anyone suggested that a newly arrived Somalian who doesn't speak English or an Islamic Immam who wants to wage jihad on the West couldn't be " one of us", people would go nuts. Therefore, I'm intrigued about why we disqualify Jacob Rees Mogg - presumably it's because he's committed the sin of education ?
I'm sorry, but I can't work up any hostility against anyone for being British, successful , intelligent or educated, and whilst I can guess that this attitude is a hang back to some fake socialist class warfare from the 1930's, it's really no more than jealousy and it can't do anything but hold people back.
Surely we realised long ago that socialists nurture poverty and resentment because without it, they're out of business .
Yes, I know, that's what I'm saying
Who are this elite who want to abolish the state? Are they part of this vague globalist conspiracy? I thought the elite were an extinct Socialist concept anyway?
Sorry, my reply wasn't meant for you - it was meant for our new poster who doesn't half sound like Wales Bales at times, but isn't him.
What is your name and address again?
It's by no means a vague globalist conspiracy, and as I've said numerous times before, it's a different use of the word elite to how it's used in socialist theories.
It's the constant ebb and flow of real politics which has been going on since the time of the Ancient Greeks , which ,like an iceberg , is 90% not visible on the face of it. Maybe I'll start a whole thread on it but I'm reluctant to do that if people are just going to dismiss it without looking at the source material - complicated business you see, and there's no point taking the time to précis it if people aren't interested.
But I don't think you did. I invited you to come to a collective agreement about what are the characteristics of the elite are and you said it was a topic for another thread. I then said, as a general point, we should be mindful that many saying "the elite are ignoring you" are in fact elite themselves and the ones offering you least in return and then we parted ways agreeing it was a bigger subject and for another thread. You then came to the above conclusion.
To comment further on what you've introduced now:
I'm not saying that the general publics understanding of the EU is poor however when one of the leaders of project leave, our former foreign secretary and future Prime Minister uses Gatt 24 as part of his exit strategy then has to admit, when gently pressed, that he doesn't understand it I would think it's fair to assume many people are largely ignorant about the EU. I don't think that is limited to people who voted for leave. For the record, I would say that this is the first time I have implied you are ignorant but I am doing so simply by including you as part of a collective and, in my opinion, a majority. However what I think you're feeling, feeling that I have said you're ignorant several times before, is related to a tactic that Farage seems to employ (telling others they have been judged or viewpoints dismissed) rather than defend/explain his policy ideas.
Perhaps this is part of the problem though. I feel I have been very respectful that you have different views but you seem to have got the idea that I have said those in deprived areas don't care about the country or people with a different opinion to me are stupid, ill educated or wicked. I don't know why we've talked without understanding but I am sorry that we have and I'm also sorry that you feel Trump (don't pretend he doesn't tell people what to think because no one was chanting "lock her up" before he got on stage) would treat you with greater respect that I have in this thread.
Hey, maybe I expressed myself badly, but I didn't mean to suggest that you'd been impolite or personally disrespectful to me or anyone else .
Quite the opposite in fact - my impression during my short time here is that you are one of the more intelligent and articulate debaters here, and certainly not unpleasant in your manner.
Obviously we take rather different views of certain political issues, so we're bound to disagree , but I certainly didn't mean to be disagreeable in my manner , and if I was then I apologise unreservedly.
I wasn't so much accusing you personally of this thing about patronising those who disagree with you , but rather pointing out that it's increasingly commonplace and that those who do it probably don't realise that they're doing it, or how counter productive it is.
I'm sure you didn't imply that I'm ignorant of the facts, and I can assure you that I'm not.
As far as Donald Trump goes, I don't know how much respect he'd show me, but my point was that the views he expresses are clearly shared by many many people, and that most of them have formed these views quite independently.
Actually, there's yet another potential thread in the matter of a general tendency for people of all political types to choose who they believe rather than examine the issues for themselves .
Finally, please don't take personal offence for any arguments I might put because I can assure that none is intended.
Nobody's dismissing anything, I just want to know where we stand when you talk about an elite
Okay.
Since the Lombards ,( and possibly the Templars before them) , started trying to pull strings behind the scenes by loaning money during the Hundred Years' War, there have been various people, companies and organisations exerting or attempting to exert influence over the kings and governments of the world. They've had various degrees of success in this at different times.
These are the hidden powers of the world and they are very real.
Disraeli described them as perhaps 200 men in suits who have more influence over politics and national governments than those governments themselves. If you want to start calling anyone a mad conspiracy theorist, start with him.
President Eisenhower warned of the growing influence of such groups in his farewell address, and coined the phrase " the military industrial complex" in the course of doing so. Another mad conspiracy theorist you may think.
At this point in time a number of groups of this type are having a great deal of success in suborning governments and politicians world wide to join a massive project which intends to remove nation states entirely and disenfranchise the citizens of these states. The main known body behind this is a thing called the Tri lateral Commision , and the public face of its finances is George Soros.
The aims of this movement are many and diverse, but there is an ambition to bring about a World Government , and that's probably as far as we should go in this brief outline . The Eu is a component part of this blueprint ,and the most successful attempt so far to combine a number of advanced countries under an un elected leadership .
They envisage that this World Government will be run by an "enlightened" elite, and this is what we mean by elitists in this context.
Of course I will now be accused of being nuts, but that's okay and it's what I would expect, but what I have said is accurate and since you asked me a direct question I gave you a direct answer.
What's the line from that movie with Jack Nicholson - "you can't handle the truth" ....... Well most people actually can't handle the truth and so I'll get a bad reaction to all that, but that won't be any big surprise so make of it what you will.
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