Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?

[delmbox]

The courts and the police know what is murder and what is manslaughter or killing in self-defence.

The courts and police are not infallible, what if the other guy had a mate with him who said that you just hit him out of nowhere, and the jury believed his word against yours?

[David Vincent]

The courts and police are not infallible, what if the other guy had a mate with him who said that you just hit him out of nowhere, and the jury believed his word against yours?

Whether murderers deserve death is a separate question to how do we know if someone is guilty of murder. We don't have a good legal system and we don't know for certain if anyone is really guilty of any crime. But we still have to arrest and punish people.

We don't have perfect knowledge. I was once accused of something I didn't do. It wasn't anything to do with the police but if it had gone before a judge and a jury they would never have believed me. If I just had the facts of the incident I would never have believed my explanation. It was ridiculous but it was also true. It caused me some trouble at the time but it is all long ago and forgotten by everyone except myself. If the accusation had been murder I would have gone to gallows laughing at the bizarreness of it. I would have accepted that the judge and the jury had made the correct decision given the facts. We live in a world where injustice is bound to happen. The best we can do is find the wisest judges and juries. Maybe we should have IQ restrictions on who can sit in judge of us.

[J R Hartley]

So you'd be happy for a judge to decide if something is worth killing someone for?

Absolutely. Im more than happy for a judge to decide someone of the ilk of the Ian Huntleys and Mick Philpotts of this world to be killed for the crimes they commited.

Im not endorsing we start killing every petty criminal but the ones who have been locked away for life because their crimes are deemed so bad. Get rid of them. Serves no purpose to pay to keep them alive.
.

Did the children Mick Philpott killed, his own children, get a say in wether they were worth killing or not?

[life on mars]

Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .

[Croesy Blue]

Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .

That's why we don't let victims choose the punishment because it isn't justice. If someone hurt my family I wouldn't be bothered if they were killed but that wouldn''t be just.

[Croesy Blue]

Absolutely. Im more than happy for a judge to decide someone of the ilk of the Ian Huntleys and Mick Philpotts of this world to be killed for the crimes they commited.

Im not endorsing we start killing every petty criminal but the ones who have been locked away for life because their crimes are deemed so bad. Get rid of them. Serves no purpose to pay to keep them alive.
.

Did the children Mick Philpott killed, his own children, get a say in wether they were worth killing or not?

I would have no problem with Mick Philpott being killed but it's not usually that simple. I also happen to think being locked up for his whole life is worse than just lights out and dead.

[lardy]

Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .

Which is why family members don't sentence criminals.

[J R Hartley]

I would have no problem with Mick Philpott being killed but it's not usually that simple. I also happen to think being locked up for his whole life is worse than just lights out and dead.

Well I disagree. Hes got a roof over his head and 3 square meals a day. A lot more than a lot of people in this country who didnt kill their own children have got.

[Croesy Blue]

Well I disagree. Hes got a roof over his head and 3 square meals a day. A lot more than a lot of people in this country who didnt kill their own children have got.

But if he was dead he wouldn't even be aware of anything, isn't that the easy way out?

I think my main argument with it is in an ideal world with fair people giving fair judgements on criminals that were 100% guilty it could work. Unfortunately many people are wrongly convicted and poeple in power are often corrupt. As well as the fact it isn't a deterrant and is more expensive than life in prison it just doesn't seem worth it to me.

That's without the unconciou bias that means poorer people are more likely to be convicted of a crime.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .

Not just gladly kill bombers yourself, but in the case of the Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4, save the country the embarrassment of releasing them when they had their innocence proved!

[J R Hartley]

But if he was dead he wouldn't even be aware of anything, isn't that the easy way out?

I think my main argument with it is in an ideal world with fair people giving fair judgements on criminals that were 100% guilty it could work. Unfortunately many people are wrongly convicted and poeple in power are often corrupt. As well as the fact it isn't a deterrant and is more expensive than life in prison it just doesn't seem worth it to me.

That's without the unconciou bias that means poorer people are more likely to be convicted of a crime.

Do you really think the type of monsrer we are talking about are aware of anything and have a conscience?

[Croesy Blue]

Do you really think the type of monsrer we are talking about are aware of anything and have a conscience?

It's not really the point I'm making though is it, I don't care if a monster like that dies I just think the death penalty has too many flaws.

Also for me it t doesn't matter about conscience, if you're dead you've got away with it.

[dembethewarrior]

I have honestly never read such rubbish in my whole life.

I haven’t opened this thread as I was dreading the boring arguing I expected to see, but fooking hell am I glad I did, just to read these posts by DV

[xsnaggle]

For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?

Taking shortcuts.

[dembethewarrior]

So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?

Give them the bare minimum that is acceptable (you know you’ll get human rights protesters fighting for them)

Minimum food/water to keep them alive

Blanket OR pillow

No window and lights out early

Hour max to stretch their legs. Kept apart so they can’t talk

No visitors

Absolutely no mail/reading material etc.

As much as I’d like for them to be shot I don’t think I could agree with the DP.

[Rjk]

Give them the bare minimum that is acceptable (you know you’ll get human rights protesters fighting for them)

Minimum food/water to keep them alive

Blanket OR pillow

No window and lights out early

Hour max to stretch their legs. Kept apart so they can’t talk

No visitors

Absolutely no mail/reading material etc.

As much as I’d like for them to be shot I don’t think I could agree with the DP.

I'm not sure we gain anything by having a government that is prepared to treat people this way.

[blue matt]

I started this thread to see the great divide that would separate society if this was ever on the cards

We have seen both extreme sides of the argument

interesting to see that no-one is unhappy or losing any sleep about Richard Huckle being murdered, which does bring the prison justice being served argument into play

it has been discussed who would decide who gets executed and for what crimes

Surely no-one can think about saying Richard Huckle deserves to ever see the world as a free man, not even the most liberal in the world would

He is 100 % guilty and knew what he was doing

He is pure evil scum, If he is never going to see the outside world as a free man again, does he have a purpose in life ? ? no of course not

I find it amazing that people say that being locked up is enough punishment and worse than death, I guess Richard Huckle didnt think that as he was jailed in 2016 ( was inside from 2015 though ), he has had 4 years to top himself

[William Treseder]

Give them the bare minimum that is acceptable (you know you’ll get human rights protesters fighting for them)

Minimum food/water to keep them alive

Blanket OR pillow

No window and lights out early

Hour max to stretch their legs. Kept apart so they can’t talk

No visitors

Absolutely no mail/reading material etc.

As much as I’d like for them to be shot I don’t think I could agree with the DP.

We agree on something 👍

[William Treseder]

I'm not sure we gain anything by having a government that is prepared to treat people this way.

I take it you’d give them a coloured tv and access to a gym and a pool table?

[dembethewarrior]

We agree on something 👍

They don’t deserve any more.

[dembethewarrior]

I'm not sure we gain anything by having a government that is prepared to treat people this way.

It would never happen.

[William Treseder]

I started this thread to see the great divide that would separate society if this was ever on the cards

We have seen both extreme sides of the argument

interesting to see that no-one is unhappy or losing any sleep about Richard Huckle being murdered, which does bring the prison justice being served argument into play

it has been discussed who would decide who gets executed and for what crimes

Surely no-one can think about saying Richard Huckle deserves to ever see the world as a free man, not even the most liberal in the world would

He is 100 % guilty and knew what he was doing

He is pure evil scum, If he is never going to see the outside world as a free man again, does he have a purpose in life ? ? no of course not

I find it amazing that people say that being locked up is enough punishment and worse than death, I guess Richard Huckle didnt think that as he was jailed in 2016 ( was inside from 2015 though ), he has had 4 years to top himself

That’s because it was like living in a hotel.
4 walls to stare at for 24 hrs, only bread and water, and a shitter that only gets cleaned once a week.
Think he might consider doing himself in then.

[surge]

I can't believe we have moved from "shall we kill them?" to "shall we torture them?". The latter will inevitably lead to the former because it's already showing a complete lack of humanity, which is actually what you're saying should be punished in the first place.

It seems to be a conversation that it heading towards asking if the prison system is tough enough. It's certainly tough enough for people who don't want to commit crime and wouldn't be able to escape the consequences which leaves you with the people making the case for tougher sentences (at the moment it seems like this group are breaking rules/laws but can escape the consequences) because of those who are willing to commit crime (who have factored in the consequences already).

[dembethewarrior]

I can't believe we have moved from "shall we kill them?" to "shall we torture them?". The latter will inevitably lead to the former because it's already showing a complete lack of humanity, which is actually what you're saying should be punished in the first place.

It seems to be a conversation that it heading towards asking if the prison system is tough enough. It's certainly tough enough for people who don't want to commit crime and wouldn't be able to escape the consequences which leaves you with the people making the case for tougher sentences (at the moment it seems like this group are breaking rules/laws but can escape the consequences) because of those who are willing to commit crime (who have factored in the consequences already).

Someone who touches kids or has images of them probably doesn’t even think of the consequences, because whatever it is that drives them on to be that way probably eliminates any sort of rational thinking from their sick heads.

It probably would be torture for them.

Oh well.

[William Treseder]

I can't believe we have moved from "shall we kill them?" to "shall we torture them?". The latter will inevitably lead to the former because it's already showing a complete lack of humanity, which is actually what you're saying should be punished in the first place.

It seems to be a conversation that it heading towards asking if the prison system is tough enough. It's certainly tough enough for people who don't want to commit crime and wouldn't be able to escape the consequences which leaves you with the people making the case for tougher sentences (at the moment it seems like this group are breaking rules/laws but can escape the consequences) because of those who are willing to commit crime (who have factored in the consequences already).

Who’s mentioned torture?