What leave voters voted for?

[Heisenberg]

Well that last bit is about right actually.

ALL politicians are liars and crooks and their various schemes and plans are ALL faulted .

I have no belief in ANY of them , but of the various options available socialism is the most dangerous and harmful . It is corrosive to the brain and morality and seeks to inflict it's cranky theories on everyone whether they like it or not.

In fact, it's colonialism of the mind. Just as successive empires have insisted that its justifiable to force compliance upon those they invade and kill because it benefits them in the long run, socialism insists that others accept their theories whether they like it or not because some imagined , ( but never delivered), benefit will result.

Experience has shown that socialists will not stop at anything to enforce these stupid theories upon others, often resulting in many deaths and great suffering. Similarly , experience has shown that anti semitism can quickly become genocide when weaponised by fanatical politicians. Put these two things together and you have a dangerous mixture, so it's perfectly sensible to be concerned about this situation.

You say I'm transparent. Well I hope so - I've got absolutely no hidden agenda and what I say is what I mean - in this case that socialism is an evil and dangerous philosophy which should be regarded with great suspicion by anyone who regards human liberties and individuality as important.

At least you can admit that you cannot be objective about potential anti-semitism within the Labour party since you're hanging a socialist banner over the whole party which automatically makes them inherently evil.

Let's see how the rights and liberties of the general public continue to prosper under a Conservative government with Boris Johnson in charge.

Imagine if the Tories start sending black people born in the UK to another country... Oh wait, that's already happened. Nevermind, they're not socialists.

Imagine if they introduce employment and welfare policies which lead to the deaths and oppression of countless disabled people... Oh wait, that's already happened. Nevermind, they're not socialists.

Imagine if they introduce a law which give them the power to snoop access all of the personal information of UK citizens without justification... Oh wait, that's already happened. Nevermind, they're not socialists.

The next time you want to want to talk about objectivity, remember that you couldn't give a f**k about human rights and liberties of UK citizens unless they're being effected by socialism.

[RonnieBird]

Once again you tell me about the conservatives !
I don't think you can imagine that anyone can dislike socialism and not be a paid up member of the Consevatives.

As I keep saying, none of the main parties are trustworthy or credible, but labour are the most dangerous to individual liberties in my opinion.

[Heisenberg]

Once again you tell me about the conservatives !
I don't think you can imagine that anyone can dislike socialism and not be a paid up member of the Consevatives.

As I keep saying, none of the main parties are trustworthy or credible, but labour are the most dangerous to individual liberties in my opinion.

I keep mentioning them as you choose to ignore every negative point made about them because they're not "socialists". Proving that you don't care about the things you proclaim to be worried about - unless they're the product of socialism.

If there are any other posters reading this back-and-forth between us, could they let me know if I'm explaining my point clearly enough or is RonnieB just being obtuse/in denial?

[RonnieBird]

Again, socialists are the ones performing in what I consider a worrying way which could have real outcomes. Therefore they're the ones I'm talking about.
The fact that the others are also a bunch of self seeking twats and liars isn't what we're talking about, and it doesn't cancel out what labour does wrong. It's irrelevant to my opinion that labour are anti Semitic , so why would I consider it ?

Like many many people you're caught up in the left/right paradigm and you've believed that everyone must be one or the other. If the other bunch of venal twats does something which I consider worth challenging , I'll do so and often have in the past ,but I'm really not in the business of defending any of them. Believe me, they like each other a lot more than they like you or me and all sides of the fake political division are just saying what they think people want to hear if that will provide them with money and power.

[RonnieBird]

By the way, I note your plea for other members of the message board politburo to come in and " win the argument" with a bit of collective abuse, but that's pretty meaningless in a place where a few people hold leftist views and gang up on anyone who doesn't.

[Heisenberg]

Again, socialists are the ones performing in what I consider a worrying way which could have real outcomes. Therefore they're the ones I'm talking about.
The fact that the others are also a bunch of self seeking twats and liars isn't what we're talking about, and it doesn't cancel out what labour does wrong. It's irrelevant to my opinion that labour are anti Semitic , so why would I consider it ?

Like many many people you're caught up in the left/right paradigm and you've believed that everyone must be one or the other. If the other bunch of venal twats does something which I consider worth challenging , I'll do so and often have in the past ,but I'm really not in the business of defending any of them. Believe me, they like each other a lot more than they like you or me and all sides of the fake political division are just saying what they think people want to hear if that will provide them with money and power.

You keep repeating the same thing, which we've covered already. Yes, we know you hate socialism and believe that Labour are anti-semitic, will bring another holocaust and remove human rights and civil liberties - which is all complete speculation until it happens(?)

My point is that you're so blinded by that hatred that you're conveniently ignoring the actual, proven dismantling of human rights & civil liberties and the increase in hate crimes against minorities (including the Jewish community that you've put at the top of your list of 'races' that you're worried about being harmed) that have been going on under consecutive Conservative governments.

The most glaring flaw in your continued rage against socialism was when you said that "everything remotely related to socialism is evil and will only lead to death" (I can't remember the exact quote, but that was the message you conveyed). I asked if you thought the NHS was evil and you suddenly disappeared from the discussion.

We've been going around in circles for a while now and I can't point out the flaws in your logic and clearer than I already have, so I'll leave the debate there.

[Heisenberg]

By the way, I note your plea for other members of the message board politburo to come in and " win the argument" with a bit of collective abuse, but that's pretty meaningless in a place where a few people hold leftist views and gang up on anyone who doesn't.

I asked if I was explaining myself clearly as you kept missing my point. I've been told that if someone is not understanding what you're trying to say then the blame doesn't necessarily lie with them and you need to consider that how things sound in your head may not be how the other party receives the information. No need to feel so paranoid - I was just checking if I was making sense.

You, WB and LoM "gang up" (if that's what you want to call posting in agreement on football messageboard) enough times - so maybe you can stop playing the victim card. It's just boring now.

[rs3100]

I know you say you dislike all of the main political parties but which one would be closest to your political leanings and beliefs?

[Wales-Bales]

I simply don't have the complete set of life learning skills that you were gifted with, and I think its not healthy to hang onto or follow every single point of view and comment one may make ,ita called obsession.

Welcome to the strange world of Cyril the Stalker

[Dorcus]

I asked if I was explaining myself clearly as you kept missing my point. I've been told that if someone is not understanding what you're trying to say then the blame doesn't necessarily lie with them and you need to consider that how things sound in your head may not be how the other party receives the information. No need to feel so paranoid - I was just checking if I was making sense.

You, WB and LoM "gang up" (if that's what you want to call posting in agreement on football messageboard) enough times - so maybe you can stop playing the victim card. It's just boring now.

In my opinion you've explained yourself brilliantly Heisenberg but I'm sorry you have little credible opposition against you. His arguments are baseless and pure fiction and he's not the most articulate of protagonists.

Great nom de plume by the way, cherishing the name of a great man

[City123]

You keep repeating the same thing, which we've covered already. Yes, we know you hate socialism and believe that Labour are anti-semitic, will bring another holocaust and remove human rights and civil liberties - which is all complete speculation until it happens(?)

My point is that you're so blinded by that hatred that you're conveniently ignoring the actual, proven dismantling of human rights & civil liberties and the increase in hate crimes against minorities (including the Jewish community that you've put at the top of your list of 'races' that you're worried about being harmed) that have been going on under consecutive Conservative governments.

The most glaring flaw in your continued rage against socialism was when you said that "everything remotely related to socialism is evil and will only lead to death" (I can't remember the exact quote, but that was the message you conveyed). I asked if you thought the NHS was evil and you suddenly disappeared from the discussion.

We've been going around in circles for a while now and I can't point out the flaws in your logic and clearer than I already have, so I'll leave the debate there.

I don't know why people bother engaging with him

[jon1959]

I know you say you dislike all of the main political parties but which one would be closest to your political leanings and beliefs?

My guess is that his mind has been colonialised (sic) by UKIP. The Gerald Batten version that even Nigel Farage wouldn't touch. A few of Ronnie's recent diatribes bear a very close similarity to Batten in full flow - especially on his favourite subjects of socialism and the EU.

[RonnieBird]

In my opinion you've explained yourself brilliantly Heisenberg but I'm sorry you have little credible opposition against you. His arguments are baseless and pure fiction and he's not the most articulate of protagonists.

Great nom de plume by the way, cherishing the name of a great man

What a surprise that Stalkas would say that ! Nice try with that thing about pretending to put me on ignore to make it look as if you're not crossing lines. Too late unfortunately .

[RonnieBird]

Here we go with the small mutual admiration society ganging up to silence dissent, but outside this message board you're in a tiny tiny minority you know ,

[RonnieBird]

I know you say you dislike all of the main political parties but which one would be closest to your political leanings and beliefs?

No, really. They're all crooks and I wouldn't trust any of them to run a chip shop.
I've had dealings with politicians of all colours and any form of genuine belief amongst them is a real rarity.
I've been known to have a serious go at the others, who are also twats, but in this case it's labour who are doing something off the scale in terms of human decency.

I personally think that membership of any political party should be a grave disqualification for public office, but that's a whole different and complicated , ( but very interesting), conversation. This probably isn't the place to have it though.

[life on mars]

No, really. They're all crooks and I wouldn't trust any of them to run a chip shop.
I've had dealings with politicians of all colours and any form of genuine belief amongst them is a real rarity.
I've been known to have a serious go at the others, who are also twats, but in this case it's labour who are doing something off the scale in terms of human decency.

I personally think that membership of any political party should be a grave disqualification for public office, but that's a whole different and complicated , ( but very interesting), conversation. This probably isn't the place to have it though.

As you say there's no space for a balanced argument on this board .

[JDerrida]

As you say there's no space for a balanced argument on this board .

That ship has long sailed!!!

[Heisenberg]

As you say there's no space for a balanced argument on this board .

Balanced?! He's just admitted several times that he's not balanced

****'s sake LoM, grow a backbone.

[cyril evans awaydays]

As you say there's no space for a balanced argument on this board .

It's a politics board where generally people articulate, or in some instances, try to articulate, their particular perspective...a bit like politics. Can you point to the last post where you promoted a balanced argument so that we can all look to your lead?

[life on mars]

Balanced?! He's just admitted several times that he's not balanced

****'s sake LoM, grow a backbone.

There they go again the new socialist keyboard warriors with their brave nasty comments just as the reasoned arguments are drifting away from them ,so child like ,so obvious.

Whats your name?

[cyril evans awaydays]

There they go again the new socialist keyboard warriors with their brave nasty comments just as the reasoned arguments are drifting away from them ,so child like ,so obvious.

Whats your name?

New socialist keyboard warrior.....nice balanced argument!

[life on mars]

New socialist keyboard warrior.....nice balanced argument!

I know glad you agree, ooh my stalker appears from no where .

Lets hope the voters get what they voted for soon.

[Heisenberg]

There they go again the new socialist keyboard warriors with their brave nasty comments just as the reasoned arguments are drifting away from them ,so child like ,so obvious.

Whats your name?

Once again, you jump in saying bollocks and then change tact when someone responds.

RonnieB spent most of the day telling me how he cannot provide a balanced view due to his hatred of socialism and then you aim your "balanced" comment at others.

You're not good at this.

[Heisenberg]

New socialist keyboard warrior.....nice balanced argument!

I'm not even a socialist, in any shape or form. I most associate with being a liberal, but I don't think LoM has the capacity to work that out.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I know glad you agree, my stalker appears from nowwhere .

Lets hope the voters get what they voted for soon.

It's a message board, people log on. It might come as a shock after you have had a few scoobies but responses don't come from nowhere. If you would prefer to talk to yourself rather than have reasoned challenge then let me know.