Jewish group walks away from Labour

[RonnieBird]

Jewish group walks away from Labour - Labour is anti-Semitic.

Jewish group calls Nigel Farage's comments anti-Semitic - I'll have to look into it.

No, this thing of using a serious thing like anti semitism for political point scoring is wrong.
You posted one thing about Nigel Farage and I said I'd look into it, but you can't possibly equate that with voluminous acts and statements over decades by some labour people.

PLEASE don't use such language as labouring hard or people buried in holes on this subject. I just hope it's not Freudian .

[life on mars]

What LOM said is true, but is it a reason to hate Jews if they're successful ?

And there we have it , success, or envy , you add it all up its a dislike of those values , if you look at history certain folk having always been envious of the virtues of sucess , if you consider that people throught out the ages have disliked the Jew for its abiliy to be wealthy or a sucess, through hard work and entrepreneurial skills .

Isreal is disliked in the region for running a sucessful strong country, where all around it fails.

The USA has been at the forefront of capitalist growth and strength as a nation .

All of those traits are indeed disliked and envied by left wing socialists , its not a new phenomenon.

However to think in 2019 after all the horrendous attrocities the Jew has been subject too, its bewlidering to think a modern society with its so called tolerance and inclusion is still talking about this very matter.

Even worse a major political party is subject to an investigation by a well respected independent trusted body such as the equality and human rights commission , who don't take on enquiries lightly , is equally bewildering , even its parties deputy has accepted it exists ,
and has called it out , proves this is not just a few nutters .

There's a lot of denial going on and it saddens me as a past Labour voter that it exists in any shape or form in a party that I thought was well above that .

The only other political movement the EHRC have investigated is the BNP ??

[Eric Cartman]

I heard it once on R4 whilst driving and that was a while back. If I got it wrong I apologise but I certainly wasn't trying to be disingenuous - that was my recollection. What did he actually say then ?

I am not going to give my own equally wrong version of events.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ts-2013-speech

[Eric Cartman]

Isreal is disliked in the region for running a sucessful strong country, where all around it fails.

Keep on telling yourself that.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/...press-release/

Some highlights:

More than 6,000 unarmed demonstrators were shot by military snipers, week after week at the protest sites by the separation fence.

The investigation covered the period from the start of the protests until 31 December 2018. 189 Palestinians were killed during the demonstrations inside this period. The Commission found that Israeli Security Forces killed 183 of these protesters with live ammunition. Thirty-five of these fatalities were children, while three were clearly marked paramedics, and two were clearly marked journalists.

Unless undertaken lawfully in self-defence, intentionally shooting a civilian not directly participating in hostilities is a war crime

The Commission took note of the Israeli claim that the protests by the separation fence masked “terror activities” by Palestinian armed groups. The Commission found however that the demonstrations were civilian in nature, with clearly stated political aims. Despite some acts of significant violence, the Commission found that the demonstrations did not constitute combat or military campaigns.

The Commission found that some members of the Higher National Committee organising the protests, which includes Hamas representatives, encouraged or defended demonstrators’ use of indiscriminate incendiary kites and balloons, causing fear among civilians and significant damage to property in southern Israel. The Commission concluded that Hamas, as the de facto authority in Gaza, failed to prevent these acts.

It is still going on although nobody cares anymore - https://mondoweiss.net/2019/10/43-ch...march-in-gaza/

[RonnieBird]

I am not going to give my own equally wrong version of events.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ts-2013-speech

Not much difference is there ?
Point being that he's implying that Jews aren't English - perhaps more correctly revealing his own subconscious attitude towards Jews.
Look, he's a nutter and an idiot, we know that , and he probably meant no harm, but to me the worrying thing is that some people - even here - want to justify it instead of saying " hey, that's a bit out of order Corby !"
This is how it can start you see. They're so fanatical about their tribal politics that their defence of their "leader " is more important than rational thinking or human decency , and before we know where we are it's a serious problem.

[Heisenberg]

No, this thing of using a serious thing like anti semitism for political point scoring is wrong.
You posted one thing about Nigel Farage and I said I'd look into it, but you can't possibly equate that with voluminous acts and statements over decades by some labour people.

PLEASE don't use such language as labouring hard or people buried in holes on this subject. I just hope it's not Freudian .

Who is "political point scoring"? I'm pointing out the sheer hypocrisy you're showing. When you thought it was Corbyn who made those comments you had an opinion. When you discovered that it was actually Farage who made them, suddenly it's "I think he's actually talking about something else" and "I'll have to look into what he said". It's not as if Farage doesn't have a long, disgusting history of racist behaviour, is it?

As for the "language" that I used. Seriously?! You're pretending to be offended by me using a pun on the name of the party that you so greatly oppose to mock you because there's the most tenuous link ever with the word 'labour' and Jews? You're really trying to divert attention away from your massive balls-up aren't you? (Should I not say "balls-up" as Jews are circumcised and the foreskin is located near the testicles?)

Did you look into Farage's anti-Semitic comments? (Not sure what that would entail). Are the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism wrong about him?

[Heisenberg]

And there we have it , success, or envy , you add it all up its a dislike of those values , if you look at history certain folk having always been envious of the virtues of sucess , if you consider that people throught out the ages have disliked the Jew for its abiliy to be wealthy or a sucess, through hard work and entrepreneurial skills .

Isreal is disliked in the region for running a sucessful strong country, where all around it fails.

The USA has been at the forefront of capitalist growth and strength as a nation .

All of those traits are indeed disliked and envied by left wing socialists , its not a new phenomenon.

However to think in 2019 after all the horrendous attrocities the Jew has been subject too, its bewlidering to think a modern society with its so called tolerance and inclusion is still talking about this very matter.

Even worse a major political party is subject to an investigation by a well respected independent trusted body such as the equality and human rights commission , who don't take on enquiries lightly , is equally bewildering , even its parties deputy has accepted it exists ,
and has called it out , proves this is not just a few nutters .

There's a lot of denial going on and it saddens me as a past Labour voter that it exists in any shape or form in a party that I thought was well above that .

The only other political movement the EHRC have investigated is the BNP ??

You've just said "the Jew" an incredible amount of times to describe the Jewish community. Once again, referring to Jews (plural) as "the Jew" is widely regarded to be anti-Semitic. It's how Hitler referred to them to dehumanise them.

Are you sure that you're not anti-Semitic LoM? You've stated that Jews living in New York have lots of money and influence (what's known as 'Economic Anti-Semitism') and now you're calling the Jewish community "The Jew".

Maybe the EHRC should investigate you?

[RonnieBird]

Who is "political point scoring"? I'm pointing out the sheer hypocrisy you're showing. When you thought it was Corbyn who made those comments you had an opinion. When you discovered that it was actually Farage who made them, suddenly it's "I think he's actually talking about something else" and "I'll have to look into what he said". It's not as if Farage doesn't have a long, disgusting history of racist behaviour, is it?

As for the "language" that I used. Seriously?! You're pretending to be offended by me using a pun on the name of the party that you so greatly oppose to mock you because there's the most tenuous link ever with the word 'labour' and Jews? You're really trying to divert attention away from your massive balls-up aren't you? (Should I not say "balls-up" as Jews are circumcised and the foreskin is located near the testicles?)

Did you look into Farage's anti-Semitic comments? (Not sure what that would entail). Are the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism wrong about him?

I didn't at any point think Corbyn said that. You posted it and it clearly referred to Nigel Farage.
I said I'll look into it because I want to see who these people are who have objected and why. I'm already aware of the many organisations and individuals who've objected to Corbyn.
We're on to circumcision now are we ?
Is this what you know of Jewish people ?
Again, why should I be surprised that the people here who gang up on minorities to silence opinion are the same ones who are happy to gang up on Jews ?

[RonnieBird]

I think the general consensus of the left here is that anti Zionism / anti semitism is okay. If this reflects the attitudes of the left generally then I think people will take this into account in voting during the forthcoming election.
I know that Rabbis and other Jewish leaders were already warning everyone not to vote labour and I don't blame them on the basis of what we've seen here. What's more significant in numbers is that I don't think the general public will ignore the danger of having an anti Semite running the country.

[Eric Cartman]

I think the general consensus of the left here is that anti Zionism / anti semitism is okay. If this reflects the attitudes of the left generally then I think people will take this into account in voting during the forthcoming election.
I know that Rabbis and other Jewish leaders were already warning everyone not to vote labour and I don't blame them on the basis of what we've seen here. What's more significant in numbers is that I don't think the general public will ignore the danger of having an anti Semite running the country.

Not all, maybe he is the wrong kind of rabbi...

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/l...green-1.490882

[Eric Cartman]

Not much difference is there ?
Point being that he's implying that Jews aren't English - perhaps more correctly revealing his own subconscious attitude towards Jews.
Look, he's a nutter and an idiot, we know that , and he probably meant no harm, but to me the worrying thing is that some people - even here - want to justify it instead of saying " hey, that's a bit out of order Corby !"
This is how it can start you see. They're so fanatical about their tribal politics that their defence of their "leader " is more important than rational thinking or human decency , and before we know where we are it's a serious problem.

Well you said he described all Jews as not understanding British culture and values, he wasnt describing all British Jews and he wasn't referring to all culture and values. But other than that, I guess it is exactly the same :rolleyes:

What you are doing (extreme reading between the lines to imply what other people are thinking) is no different to people saying anybody against free movement is a racist.

[RonnieBird]

Well, you may say that Eric, and you may quote a liberal Rabbi, but the test will be how Jews vote.
That will be real, not just an idea. It's one thing to argue the toss on a message board and it's another to convince Jewish people they're wrong to be suspicious of labour or persuade them to vote for what many of them see as a very racist party which I must tell you many of them privately compare with the Nazis in their early stages.

You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.

[Eric Cartman]

Well, you may say that Eric, and you may quote a liberal Rabbi, but the test will be how Jews vote.
That will be real, not just an idea. It's one thing to argue the toss on a message board and it's another to convince Jewish people they're wrong to be suspicious of labour or persuade them to vote for what many of them see as a very racist party which I must tell you many of them privately compare with the Nazis in their early stages.

You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.

See, now you are trying to guess what I think. You aren't very good at it, just stop.

[Dorcus]

Well, you may say that Eric, and you may quote a liberal Rabbi, but the test will be how Jews vote.
That will be real, not just an idea. It's one thing to argue the toss on a message board and it's another to convince Jewish people they're wrong to be suspicious of labour or persuade them to vote for what many of them see as a very racist party which I must tell you many of them privately compare with the Nazis in their early stages.

You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.

As a Jewish person how will you vote Phil?

[Dorcus]

What LOM said is true, but is it a reason to hate Jews if they're successful ?

Everyone is successful in their own way. What us socialists object to is the iniquity of unequal wealth distribution, status and power.

[life on mars]

You've just said "the Jew" an incredible amount of times to describe the Jewish community. Once again, referring to Jews (plural) as "the Jew" is widely regarded to be anti-Semitic. It's how Hitler referred to them to dehumanise them.

Are you sure that you're not anti-Semitic LoM? You've stated that Jews living in New York have lots of money and influence (what's known as 'Economic Anti-Semitism') and now you're calling the Jewish community "The Jew".

Maybe the EHRC should investigate you?

Perhaps my grammar was mius placed (but hey I guess you know that ,so good point score )
Your repy sums it up really no real concern just make some barbed personal comnent .


Its pityful and shameful this is going on in a major political party , being in denial is very tough or are they .

You might want to study some of the EHRC cases and why they take them up , you will discover they dont do it lightly or without just cause.

[RonnieBird]

See, now you are trying to guess what I think. You aren't very good at it, just stop.

What did I say that suggested what you thought ?

[RonnieBird]

Everyone is successful in their own way. What us socialists object to is the iniquity of unequal wealth distribution, status and power.

If you're any good and you work hard you'll do okay. You've just admitted that you're jealous of success , so maybe you should have made more effort. If success is one of the reasons for your feelings toward Jews maybe you should consider that the treatment they've received is hardly privileged.

[RonnieBird]

What did I say that suggested what you thought ?

To clarify that Eric, you're the one lefty here that I think definitely isn't an anti Semite , so I hope I didn't give the impression that I included you with those who've shown their true colours as bigots.

[Eric Cartman]

What did I say that suggested what you thought ?

This bit

You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.

[life on mars]

This bit

Ronnie has a point , if I was an Israeli citizen knowing everyone around me dislikes me or what I am , and what our forebears were and suffered so for centries ,I think I'd be a hard nosed bastard .

[Dorcus]

If you're any good and you work hard you'll do okay. You've just admitted that you're jealous of success , so maybe you should have made more effort. If success is one of the reasons for your feelings toward Jews maybe you should consider that the treatment they've received is hardly privileged.

Where have I admitted I'm jealous Philip? I'm nothing of the sort and I'm very happy with the effort I've put in over the years thank you. Those magic mushrooms of yours must be very potent.

I've never ever met anyone who's worked hard and been ok; I've only seen really hard working, brave people like miners putting in 7 day a week slogs in grim conditions penniless and broken in their later years. However, I've also seen plenty of people who have made relative fortunes not through their own industry but through the hard work of exploited others.

Jews have been castigated throughout history and for many different reasons and there's no doubting they have often been treated very harshly yet, as I note that you have conveniently sidestepped my question on the Armenian genocide, there are countless other ethnicities and socio -religious groupings around the world which have been treated equally as badly but they don't get the same platform to appeal their cause as Jewish people do because they don't have powerful friends to support them

[RonnieBird]

Only in your mind do all Jews have powerful friends to support them. Only in your mind is the extermination of six million human beings called " being treated harshly". Only in your mind were there "various reasons " for the persecutions.

I've rarely met anyone who does well without working hard, and only in your mind are hard working successful people depriving you of some entitlement to steal the food from their children's mouths.
That's your beef with Jews isn't it ? You think all Jews are rich and intelligent so you envy them and you want to punish them for your own failings.

[Dorcus]

Only in your mind do all Jews have powerful friends to support them. Only in your mind is the extermination of six million human beings called " being treated harshly". Only in your mind were there "various reasons " for the persecutions.

I've rarely met anyone who does well without working hard, and only in your mind are hard working successful people depriving you of some entitlement to steal the food from their children's mouths.
That's your beef with Jews isn't it ? You think all Jews are rich and intelligent so you envy them and you want to punish them for your own failings.

I think your inarticulate ramblings just show up your general ignorance and personal demons Philip

[jon1959]

I didn't at any point think Corbyn said that. You posted it and it clearly referred to Nigel Farage.
I said I'll look into it because I want to see who these people are who have objected and why. I'm already aware of the many organisations and individuals who've objected to Corbyn.
We're on to circumcision now are we ?
Is this what you know of Jewish people ?
Again, why should I be surprised that the people here who gang up on minorities to silence opinion are the same ones who are happy to gang up on Jews ?

So now you add blatant lying to racist trolling? No wonder so many good posters put you on ignore. Pathetic and shameful!