Justice for George Floyd petition

[William Treseder]

But the people doing the looting aren’t part of the protests.

So why was George Floyds brother so an angry and upset by it. Obviously, because its distracting from the peaceful protests. Surely you can see that?

[the other bob wilson]

This whole thread is going round in circles. Its not my logic I'm talking about. Its your logic .
You wrote a long winded post about it about 20 mins ago ��

No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.

You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.

[Croesy Blue]

So why was George Floyds brother so an angry and upset by it. Obviously, because its distracting from the peaceful protests. Surely you can see that?

Yeah I can but you're doing the job of detracting from it by bringing it up.

They aren't part of the protest and they shouldn't detract from it but people will use it as an excuse to detract from it.

[William Treseder]

We appreciate that it’s bad but we underestimate how difficult it is. We don’t know what it’s like to be completely judged just on how we look and having to be on our guard at all times of day.

Black people, in the US at least, have to be taught growing up how to behave with the police because they’re more likely to be approached and more likely to be injured than a white person. Can you actually imagine what that’s like to be so afraid of that every time you leave the house? Because I can’t.

We don’t notice how lucky we are to be white because we are so used to it. That’s what makes it so hard for us to understand exactly how bad it is for non white people.

I disagree with you once again. I for one, don't under estimate how difficult it is, and millions of others all over the world don't either.
It can be a sick and cruel world we live in. Ask gay people, transexual people, fat people , ugly people,
Disabled people etc, what its like to be persecuted and taunted. Its getting better, but we still have a million miles to go on eradicating it all together, and sadly i don't think we ever will.

[William Treseder]

No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.

You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.

Still going round in circles here. My opinion on the way black Americans are treated, would stand up to the closest and tightest scrutiny.

[Croesy Blue]

So you think you know exactly how it is to live your life as a minority every day and how that affects every part of your life?

[William Treseder]

Yeah I can but you're doing the job of detracting from it by bringing it up.

They aren't part of the protest and they shouldn't detract from it but people will use it as an excuse to detract from it.

So shall we just pretend its not happening?
Why did George Floyds brother even mention it then? He mentioned it, because it sickened him that a minority of people were taking advantage of his brothers murder to run wild. You cant pick and choose. These rioters and looters have got to be shamed and condemned, just as much as the racist cops involved in this whole sorry affair.

[William Treseder]

So you think you know exactly how it is to live your life as a minority every day and how that affects every part of your life?

Yes i do. Thats why I'm sickened to the core about institutionalised racism and all racism of any kind.

[trampie09]

I've seen the recently released Netflix series on Michael Jordan described as the best sports documentary ever - I've not watched it and I doubt if I ever will. With apologies to anyone who might think this is a clumsy and inappropriate analogy given that i would have thought the large majority of professional basketball players in the USA are Afro Caribbean, I can't stand basketball, it's too easy to score and games are decided by how often you don't score the expected points when you attack.

The thing is though, my opinion of basketball is blinkered and biased, I come up with a bunch of preconceived notions about it which, almost certainly, makes it impossible for me to be objective about it.

I wrote a weekly column for the Echo on City for about eighteen months a few years back, but, by far and away, the most comment any of the pieces I wrote during that time attracted was one I did where I told a story against myself at the time of the Malky Mackay racism controversy. I won't go into too much detail now, but, back in the early eighties, I made a racist comment (I called them a P*k*) about a member of the public I'd just had a fairly troublesome phone conversation with in work. I thought the Sri Lankan gentleman who worked close by I was quite friendly with was at lunch at the time, but it turned out he heard me. We barely spoke again after that, but word got back to me that he was very disappointed with me because "he thought I was better than that".

That comment was absolutely perfect if it was meant to upset me and make me think. It had a profound effect on me and drove a coach and horses through my opinion of myself that I was a "right on" non racist. However, I would say in partial mitigation that I was a product of my time and anyone who is not old enough to have, first, lived through and, second, understood what was being said in so much of the print you read and the television and radio you watched and heard in that decade, cannot really comprehend the way my generation was being influenced to think of people with a skin colour that wasn't white in derogatory terms.

Nevertheless, there is so much thinking on a par with my attitude towards basketball in this thread - people pontificating and agreeing sagely on a subject they know very little about (i.e. what it is like to be black in countries in the "developed" world). I freely admit that I don't know what it's like because I cannot do, but, based on this thread, there are plenty of white, middle aged/old men who think they know exactly what it's like.

The thing is, Delmbox absolutely nailed this it with this argument in another thread when he said;-

"The question I think you need to ask yourself is when you see a group of people protesting because they're clearly angry and upset about something, why your reaction is to think of "what about, what about" reasons why they shouldn't, rather than thinking about why they are."

End of argument as far as I'm concerned.

Don't beat yourself up butt, I'm reminded of the Big Ron thing, he did great things for the advancement of certain groups but just happened to make a comment, most people are to a greater or lesser extent products of their environment, strange the Sri Lankan, Pakistan thing mind you, did the Sri Lankan have links to Pakistan then ?, not that that matters.
The last dance thing was interesting, there is a cross over in many sports, Jordan at one point went on to play rounders or whatever the Yanks call it, the characters were interesting, the scoring in baseball is opposite to football, in football it's hard to score (some games there are no goals), in football the crowd will often chant 'attack, attack, attack attack attack' in Basketball the crowd will often chant 'DEFENCE'.

[Croesy Blue]

Yes i do. Thats why I'm sickened to the core about institutionalised racism and all racism of any kind.

Makes your first post about black people killing each other even stupider then.

[William Treseder]

Makes your first post about black people killing each other even stupider then.

There you go again.
My first post in this thread, was basically saying, that all lives, no matter what colour or creed matter.
I also wanted to get across the point, that its not just racist American cops that need to appreciate that, its people of all colour and creed that think life is cheap.
No point in trying to eradicate what happened to George Floyd then black youths killing black youths because of different rag colours and different gang memberships, or white people killing white people because of religious beliefs, or anyone killing anyone etc etc..
Im not trying to get into a battle with you, because we hopefully we both want the same thing.

[William Treseder]

No, you said that I thought people like you cannot have an opinion on "racist matters". I didn't say that at all, you are free to think what you like, but the difference between us would appear to be that I am able to recognise and accept when my opinions don't stand up to close scrutiny.

You talk about "my logic", but you have come to a conclusion on what I said that does not apply.

The big difference here, is opinions on sport, are 2 a penny, and throw away. Im not very keen on Basketball myself or cricket come to that, so my opinions on them would de biased
Opinions on life matters though are more important, and any right minded person wouldn't hesitate to agree that all lives are important and racism is wrong. There is no grey area there.

[trampie09]

Racism against black people is no different to racism against white people or any other people for that matter.

[Croesy Blue]

There you go again.
My first post in this thread, was basically saying, that all lives, no matter what colour or creed matter.
I also wanted to get across the point, that its not just racist American cops that need to appreciate that, its people of all colour and creed that think life is cheap.
No point in trying to eradicate what happened to George Floyd then black youths killing black youths because of different rag colours and different gang memberships, or white people killing white people because of religious beliefs, or anyone killing anyone etc etc..
Im not trying to get into a battle with you, because we hopefully we both want the same thing.

All lives matter is the words of someone who’s missed the point. It’s usually used by racists to undermine the movement too.

BLM is valid because at the moment white lives matter but black lives don’t. That’s why the movement is so needed.

Saying all lives matter paints the person at the very best as ignorant. There are plenty of places you can google that explain this a lot better than I can.

Before charging into a subject with your opinion why not try and understand everything first?

[Baloo]

There are more innocent young black men murdered by fellow young black men in both the states and the Uk than are murdered by police. Do black lives only matter if they are killed by cops?

This isn’t a particular feature of what’s going on currently, I think people are generally more inclined to join protests targeted at power/authority.

For example, would you conclude I don’t really think that domestic violence matters as I haven’t marched about it? And would I be required to do so before protesting if I felt the police had started targeting females for violent treatment?

[trampie09]

All lives matter is the words of someone who’s missed the point. It’s usually used by racists to undermine the movement too.

BLM is valid because at the moment white lives matter but black lives don’t. That’s why the movement is so needed.

Saying all lives matter paints the person at the very best as ignorant. There are plenty of places you can google that explain this a lot better than I can.

Before charging into a subject with your opinion why not try and understand everything first?

All lives matter, to say any different is racist.

Are you saying an Afro Caribbean American life is worth more than an indigenous native American's life ?

[Wales-Bales]

Rioting takes precedence over Covid-19

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...rises-separate

[Croesy Blue]

All lives matter, to say any different is racist.

Are you saying an Afro Caribbean American life is worth more than an indigenous native American's life ?

You’ve misunderstood the entire point.

[lardy]

They should probably call it Black Lives Matter Too.
It'd cause less confusion.

[William Treseder]

You’ve misunderstood the entire point.

I think its you who is misunderstanding.

[trampie09]

You’ve misunderstood the entire point.

With respect I think it is you that has missed the point.

[Croesy Blue]

They should probably call it Black Lives Matter Too.
It'd cause less confusion.

Exactly it doesn’t mean only black lives matter it means other lives matter already and can black lives matter too.

[Croesy Blue]

I think its you who is misunderstanding.

With respect I think it is you that has missed the point.

Explain how please.

[the other bob wilson]

Still going round in circles here. My opinion on the way black Americans are treated, would stand up to the closest and tightest scrutiny.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about in your head.

[Croesy Blue]

https://www.insider.com/billie-eilis...e-floyd-2020-6

I think Billie Eilish addressed all lives matter better than I could.

Maybe you pair aren’t aware “all lives matter” was set up in response to black lives matter.

Black people aren’t saying your lives don’t matter.