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Thread: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

  1. #51

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I have no idea but you defend the right of people to believe in things that evidently don't exist so I have the right to suggest you may have a vested interest in doing that .
    A lot of non-religious people might still consider freedom of belief a human right. I don’t see a contradiction there providing it doesn’t interfere with the rights of others.

  2. #52

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    A lot of non-religious people might still consider freedom of belief a human right. I don’t see a contradiction there providing it doesn’t interfere with the rights of others.
    Propping up the churches and other places of worship could be argued to interfere with the lives of other people

    Homosexuality , women priests, gay marriage

    Do you think it was the power of the congregation that made the church more Liberal?

    I think it was the pressure from non religious society

    The Anglican Church now has women priests ........that was down to society . If the church had its way it would have kept the status quo and no progress would have been made .

  3. #53

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    Propping up the churches and other places of worship could be argued to interfere with the lives of other people

    Homosexuality , women priests, gay marriage

    Do you think it was the power of the congregation that made the church more Liberal?

    I think it was the pressure from non religious society

    The Anglican Church now has women priests ........that was down to society . If the church had its way it would have kept the status quo and no progress would have been made .
    We’re talking at odds here. Some religious groups don’t even have churches. My point was merely that there are a spectrum of beliefs, whilst your descriptions mostly apply to a specific type of religious believer, of which there of course many. The evidence is out there.

  4. #54

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    OK, but my post was specifically about The Quakers who are pacifists and have a long tradition of resistance to military action.
    The Quakers are indeed interesting. A retired doctor in my evening class is one and told me a little of what they do in their meetings.

  5. #55

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    The Quakers are indeed interesting. A retired doctor in my evening class is one and told me a little of what they do in their meetings.
    They make lovely porridge

  6. #56

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    Back in the days of uneducated people, and before science, Man needed religion to make some sense of the world, to explain where we all came from, what we were doing here, and what happens when we die. Now, science has explained everything (okay, most things), and we no longer need religion. But we do need a sense of belonging, and that's why people join clubs, go to football, etc. We don't need God, but we do need the companionship of like-minded people.

    But religion is still there, and it still has a lot of wealth and authority, although in reality, it doesn't deserve either.

    But as regards child abuse, I guess that if that is your 'thing', then you'd hang out where there were plenty of kids, where you'd have a bit of respectability, and where you might come across like-minded people. Hence teachers, priests, sports coaches, tend to throw up a high percentage of these perverts.
    Good post.
    Spedger

  7. #57

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    The Anglican Church now has women priests ........that was down to society . If the church had its way it would have kept the status quo and no progress would have been made .
    Issues like women priests, even women bishops now, marrying divorced people, acceptance of homosexuality and so on has come from society and from within the church, as the church looks to reflect society. People within church have fought for things like this, after all it's your average members of society that go to church.

  8. #58

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    My favourite is the catholic stance on abortion in secular countries like the good ol' US of A.

  9. #59

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK View Post
    My favourite is the catholic stance on abortion in secular countries like the good ol' US of A.
    There is a group called Christian mothers against masturbation.

  10. #60

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Issues like women priests, even women bishops now, marrying divorced people, acceptance of homosexuality and so on has come from society and from within the church, as the church looks to reflect society. People within church have fought for things like this, after all it's your average members of society that go to church.
    I don't think people who are you average Joe go to church

    The kids who I grew up with and were cool to be with were not in church on a Sunday

    They were listening to metal , fishing and playing football

    The only reason why the church has changed is because society has demanded that it did

    It's still outdated though with little relevance to 2021

    I know people who give to the local food bank who are church goers and all goody goody and others who wouldn't be seen dead anywhere near a church yet give loads of money to save the children , the homeless etc

    Religion doesn't have a monopoly on child abuse but it also doesn't have a monopoly on good deeds either

    You can be a member of a train spotting club and do loads for charity

    I can't stand that saying to be good is to be a Christian

  11. #61

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    There is a group called Christian mothers against masturbation.
    Have u got a link ?

    I would like to do an online presentation

    A mass debate for want of a better word 🤔

  12. #62

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I don't think people who are you average Joe go to church

    The kids who I grew up with and were cool to be with were not in church on a Sunday

    They were listening to metal , fishing and playing football


    The only reason why the church has changed is because society has demanded that it did

    It's still outdated though with little relevance to 2021

    I know people who give to the local food bank who are church goers and all goody goody and others who wouldn't be seen dead anywhere near a church yet give loads of money to save the children , the homeless etc

    Religion doesn't have a monopoly on child abuse but it also doesn't have a monopoly on good deeds either

    You can be a member of a train spotting club and do loads for charity

    I can't stand that saying to be good is to be a Christian
    How weird is that? My childhood was completely the opposite!

    It never ceases to amaze me that people actually think calling others goody, goody or 'do-gooders' is some form of insult when it's completely the opposite. How to alienate people Sludge. Way to go.

    But I'm going to rejoice in a miracle.

    A post turned into whine.

  13. #63

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    I don't think people who are you average Joe go to church

    The kids who I grew up with and were cool to be with were not in church on a Sunday

    They were listening to metal , fishing and playing football
    So your definition of an average Joe is different. It doesn't make for a balanced story,

  14. #64
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    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Would you say that all poor people are just lazy, people who suffer with mental health are weak etc? Of course you wouldn't, as that would be generalising, which almost certainly panders to the most extreme amongst us, and as a result, ends In people being persecuted because of a certain belief etc
    Some poor people are lazy, some are not. Some rich people are lazy, some are not.

    ALL those "with religious faith" are deluded. They are also dangerous. I give you Afghanistan and the Taliban...

  15. #65
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    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    The Quakers are indeed interesting. A retired doctor in my evening class is one and told me a little of what they do in their meetings.
    The Shakers are more interesting. They died out because they didn't believe in sex. You couldn't make it up with religious BS...

  16. #66

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew View Post
    How weird is that? My childhood was completely the opposite!

    It never ceases to amaze me that people actually think calling others goody, goody or 'do-gooders' is some form of insult when it's completely the opposite. How to alienate people Sludge. Way to go.

    But I'm going to rejoice in a miracle.

    A post turned into whine.
    So you went to church every Sunday as a 14 year old kid whilst others were out fishing , playing football , listening to music ?

    I think I had a normal childhood myself

    I don't think it's normal for 14 year old boys to be singing religious songs with their parents

    Christians do good things

    Ordinary people do good things

    The bible tells Christians if they do good acts they will go to heaven but only if they also worship God and Jesus

    I would rather be an ordinary person who does good things then we can cut out the church bit and you can then be certain someone collecting for the homeless is a good person not doing it to get them to paradise

  17. #67

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    Some poor people are lazy, some are not. Some rich people are lazy, some are not.

    ALL those "with religious faith" are deluded. They are also dangerous. I give you Afghanistan and the Taliban...
    Heck, this is going way too far.

  18. #68
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    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuerto View Post
    Heck, this is going way too far.
    Forgive me.

    (Credit to Bill Hicks.)

  19. #69

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    So your definition of an average Joe is different. It doesn't make for a balanced story,
    It appears perfectly normal for young lads to go fishing be attracted to girls .....or boys .....go fishing ......drink alcohol ......look at porn , listen to rock , disco , metal etc

    And young women too

    When I was young once you realised God was a myth you stopped being dragged along to church and found other things to do with your time

    I grew up a Catholic, my mother's side of the family were from Ireland originally . My mother still watches mass online as does my sister but nobody else in the family is interested . My cousins, all secular , grew up mountain biking , swimming , fishing , sailing , my sisters kids into cycling , horses , running . No interest in church at all .

    It's like this for most people who are fed religion but realise its daft . The local Catholic church where I was first taken , I don't know of any of the kids who were there when I was 12 who go now .

    It's boring and has very little relevance to most people and most people brought up in religious families fly the nest .

    I think that's good as a reliance on faith to get you through life is not very realistic .

    For example at Xmas my mother had pneumonia and was in hospital . In March the doctor phoned to say she was being discharged . One of mum's church friends , a very kind lady but totally sucked in by her Catholic faith phoned up and said how is mum ......I said she's coming home .......she said I knew all our prayers would be answered !

    Mum came home , fell over and broke her hip and was back in the ambulance .

    I mean either praying is a complete waste of time or they were not praying hard enough

  20. #70
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    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    So you went to church every Sunday as a 14 year old kid whilst others were out fishing , playing football , listening to music ?

    I think I had a normal childhood myself

    I don't think it's normal for 14 year old boys to be singing religious songs with their parents

    Christians do good things

    Ordinary people do good things

    The bible tells Christians if they do good acts they will go to heaven but only if they also worship God and Jesus

    I would rather be an ordinary person who does good things then we can cut out the church bit and you can then be certain someone collecting for the homeless is a good person not doing it to get them to paradise
    Aye but religious folks only do good deeds to curry favour with their (non-existent) deity of choice not necessarily because they recognize the inherent goodness in their acts

    Non-religious folks do good deeds without the need for "heavenly" reward.

    Who are the better group? Clearly the non-religious.

  21. #71

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    Aye but religious folks only do good deeds to curry favour with their (non-existent) deity of choice not necessarily because they recognize the inherent goodness in their acts

    Non-religious folks do good deeds without the need for "heavenly" reward.

    Who are the better group? Clearly the non-religious.
    I tend to agree with you

    Maybe not better but probably more realistic

  22. #72

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    Forgive me.

    (Credit to Bill Hicks.)
    https://youtu.be/oyWzSDg0pc8

    Hey buddy .........come here !

  23. #73

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    Forgive me.

    (Credit to Bill Hicks.)
    Ah, get it now

  24. #74

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
    It appears perfectly normal for young lads to go fishing be attracted to girls .....or boys .....go fishing ......drink alcohol ......look at porn , listen to rock , disco , metal etc

    And young women too

    When I was young once you realised God was a myth you stopped being dragged along to church and found other things to do with your time

    I grew up a Catholic, my mother's side of the family were from Ireland originally . My mother still watches mass online as does my sister but nobody else in the family is interested . My cousins, all secular , grew up mountain biking , swimming , fishing , sailing , my sisters kids into cycling , horses , running . No interest in church at all .

    It's like this for most people who are fed religion but realise its daft . The local Catholic church where I was first taken , I don't know of any of the kids who were there when I was 12 who go now .

    It's boring and has very little relevance to most people and most people brought up in religious families fly the nest .

    I think that's good as a reliance on faith to get you through life is not very realistic .

    For example at Xmas my mother had pneumonia and was in hospital . In March the doctor phoned to say she was being discharged . One of mum's church friends , a very kind lady but totally sucked in by her Catholic faith phoned up and said how is mum ......I said she's coming home .......she said I knew all our prayers would be answered !

    Mum came home , fell over and broke her hip and was back in the ambulance .

    I mean either praying is a complete waste of time or they were not praying hard enough
    So, basically, this is all about your experience, not the wider population, people with a whole host of thoughts, beliefs, interpretations, experiences, occupations, political beliefs etc. I thought that we were exploring the nuanced shades of faith, rather than the sludge factory show.

  25. #75

    Re: One reason why religion is a load of bollox.

    Quote Originally Posted by az city View Post
    Aye but religious folks only do good deeds to curry favour with their (non-existent) deity of choice not necessarily because they recognize the inherent goodness in their acts

    Non-religious folks do good deeds without the need for "heavenly" reward.

    Who are the better group? Clearly the non-religious.
    Hmmm..people do good for many different reasons. Some, because it gives them pleasure or can make them look good. Although, does it matter, as long as the 'goodness' is beneficial to those in need?

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