Reply With QuoteMick has got to go. Like you I feel we will be dragged into a relegation dogfight. Pre-season I was right behind him. Now, as far as I am concerned, he has had his last drink in the Last Chance Saloon
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This defeat was the culmination of several poor performances.
Is it the manager, or has the team finally been found wanting? Is the board to blame with a lack of a long term vision?
I dont think things can carry on like this. I was accepting a mid table season, but we could easily be dragged into a relegation battle.
What the hell do we do?
Mick has got to go. Like you I feel we will be dragged into a relegation dogfight. Pre-season I was right behind him. Now, as far as I am concerned, he has had his last drink in the Last Chance Saloon
All of the above.Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
The squad is small now due to budget constraints. The basic brand of football the manager likes to play can be effective at this level, but there's no real Plan B if things don't go his way. Several players are significantly out of form at present, but the squad numbers are such that there's nobody to come in and replace them apart from a group of largely untried youngsters, none of who look particularly outstanding or suited to the way the manager wants his team to play.
It's a bit of a car crash at the moment and it's the result of a host of poor decisions at boardroom level.
A clever post ' turning point' sums it up as some of our defenders have a difficulty in turning and recovering from thier mistakes .
A director of football has to be a starting point. Stephen Mcphail could be an option as hes doing a good job at shamrock.
As for a manager that's a tough one but maybe someone schooled by the FAW successful training programme rather than the old boys drinking club
It matters very little what we want.
The board will do what they have always done.
They will sack Mick and slate the way he did things, bring in a new guy and have him play the kids because they are cheap and loan out everybody but the tea lady because the parachute money has dried up.
The same parachute money they managed ridiculously badly. The majority of what we did spend was spent terribly, all overseen by our transfer committee.
The question of a Director of Football was raised at a fans meeting with the Club last January. Mehmet Dalman did not react well to the question as if it was a personal insult. It is difficult to envisage him changing his mind based on what he said then. In any case, I don’t suppose an extra member of staff at that level is in their current financial planning where cost cutting appears to be the objective
I would imagine he reacted badly because he is under some misguided notion that he understands football.
I am sure he may be useful when negotiating with banks and financial institutions but his knowledge of football and club management is ever so slightly above zero.
This is probably why nothing will really change.
Mick will stay and the aim will change to “avoid relegation”
Can someone explain to me what a DoF would do that isn't being done/partially being done already? As per a poster above, the club were reluctant recently.
I don't think we can argue that it represents a continuation of approach and avoids hiring managers diametrically opposed to their predecessor given our last three managers; nor that ensures first team down to youth team play same football (TOBW has said U23's now play more similarly to senior side albeit with much higher skill); nor that it stops transfer dealings being completely dependent on manager's connection (and exposed to their relationship with certain agents); nor that it creates a longer term plan...
Any fan walking into a meeting thinking the club have no plan/no idea saying, that cut and branch is needed and a DoF is the answer apparently isn't going to be well received - the last one reportedly got a bit tense at this question.
It was definitely needed when Tan arrived and in Warnock's transfer windows but, just like the Venky's, Tan isn't the same owner he was when he first showed up. A DoF might turn "better" into actually "good" but club still need to be persuaded.
The final sentence of the above post sums it up. The squad is a mess, our football is one dimensional, we have wasted the funds we had available and our players can't think of anything other than to hoof the ball upfield. Even our £11m player was not exactly in high demand and ended up on loan to a team no better than us. That to me epitomises how money has been wasted
Changing the manager is not a solution however as any new incumbent would inherit a squad with absolutely zero creativity. The earliest a change can be made is in January but even then where are the funds for effectively four or five players who can adopt adopt a new style of play? The kids we are playing are not yet ready and perhaps some will never be. Saturday against Blackburn was embarrassing.
Basically we are in a mess and there are no easy solutions. Some have suggested in other threads we should plan for the future and accept relegation in order to regroup. That is no solution as you have to look at some of the sides in League 1 such as Sunderland and Bolton who have not found life easy in League 1.
What the hell do we do was the question. The answer is there are no immediate solutions.
It's like turning the clock back to earlier this year under Harris, and two years ago under Warnock. We'd probably get a similar 'experienced' manager who sets up not to lose rather than bee creative. Cooper would have been a decent shout, but we're too late now. I didn't;t like him at Swansea but he is from Ponty!
I'd compare us to Crystal Palace in their last season under Hodgson at the moment*.
*Obviously Mick's got an extra year which will really test whether he is a pragmatic manager or whether he choses to play less inspiring football.
We are certainly rapidly heading for the turning on the manager point, a clueless performance on Tuesday could see things turning a little unpleasant.
Not Wolves under Nuno then.....
Don’t be surprised if Kieffer is sold in January to raise funds under the premise that “as we’re not in the promotion race and he deserves a chance at a higher level, then it’s fair to let him go”.
That comparison is a way to say that I think we are evolving (a process) but not going to become a "progressive side" or move away from being physical and enjoying set-pieces - why should we when increasingly progressive teams are looking to get most out of set-pieces themselves?
We can be compared to many teams.
- Palace in how several players all out of contract at same time and we have big opportunity for change in the summer
- Arsenal in how we're putting a lot of faith in younger players we think have good potential, and probably our best bet to going back up, but it will still be a tricky path
- Wolves to make use of manager's names that rhyme and show predominantly defensive football doesn't have to be ugly or only played by dinosaurs.
I read one of your posts earlier that said we had been a car crash and thought we basically share the same view of where we've been. From what I can tell, the difference in view is how we feel about what we're doing currently and what that can lead to.
Cardiff when things turned to shite under Warnock and Cardiff when things turned to shite under Harris spring to mind.
I think that you may be over thinking things. The reality is that we can't play, struggle with the basics, can't deal with teams who decide to let us have the ball as a way of self destruction, then play through us when we get slightly disjointed due to 1 or 2 midfield players having been forced to move out of their rigid pattern.
Everything has been designed to spoil the opposition, force them into mistakes, pressure at set pieces, there's nothing else on offer. As a team we refuse to take teams on through ability and risk. That's not because the players have always been incapable of playing that way, it's because it's the club's philosophy, they've made average players poor players.
It's akin to a pit pony, at one time it was capable of grazing in a field on a bright sunny day, but after years of darkness stuck in the hollows of a pitch black mine, daylight is no longer an option, that's what happens to our players when they end up at City. It's footballer's equivalent of perpetual darkness. That's the club's fault, not the players.
Did they say that in the not the 20 podcast?
On his current form no premier league club would want Keiffer Moore.
The ‘style’ of play is noticeably worse than under Warnock or Harris. We were capable of giving teams a good thumping in those times with quality players. It wouldn’t take a parks manager long to ‘work us out’ and prepare for a game against us now.
If it wasn't we are close to it.
Whatever the club does is likely to result in more of the same from the next manager (initial upturn in results, dour football, then a succession of defeats) or we go in a new direction which will result in a painful period results wise as we blood the youngsters using a style of play they are suited to whilst accepting it's going to be a long hard season.
I'd like us to adopt a Brentford approach albeit without scrapping the Academy but I've no idea who we'd bring in as Manager and we need a Director of Football. I'd love Osian Roberts in that latter role.
If we are to change this season looks as good as any with Derby and Reading likely to take, or already taken, a significant points deduction meaning there is only one relegation place up for grabs.
An offer in the region of £5m and he's gone
you don't appoint a director of football as a knee jerk to a bad result or run of results. they are looking at the longer term strategy of the football side of things, not the day to day stuff. they aren't going to mean we don't make bad signings all of a sudden, but at least they should make sense within an overall strategy.
where we are at the moment, for the first time we actually seem to have a medium to long term strategy.
we are bringing through youth, and looking to sign players who might have sell on value.
if we continue down that route and develop some more expertise in recruitment then I would feel we are moving in the right direction at least.
many directors of football don't have any real football knowledge, but if they are competent they can bring in the right people to put in the right places.
I've been banging on about getting a director of football for years, and now is probably when I feel like we need to out one in the least in a long time.
What's the point of a Director of Football when there is no money for players? Develop youth you say. We are developing youth and they are getting into the team but some say, probably unfairly, we are doing that simply to save money. In my opinion it is highly questionable whether the youth we have developed are likely to reach Championship standard. I agree a better transfer strategy would be better under a Director of Football but sadly there are problems attracting decent players to South Wales as most youth and even adults prefer to go elsewhere so I'm doubtful whether a Director of Football will be helpful in this regard.
I recall a time when we had a Director of Football - Kenny Hibbert - when there was a lot of animosity about the appointment. We had another in the Malky Mackay era but that didn't work out that well either.
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