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Thinking back to how tan behaved when malky was manager. He was clearly heavily involved then. Maybe too much so. Probably too much so. However he was always at games home and away and was often in the media etc..... He seemed like someone who cared. Even if he did more harm than good I don't think anyone could say he wasn't interested.
However recently, and forget what dalman said yesterday, do any of you really believe tan is keeping a close eye on all this at the club? If he was he would surely be absolutely furious with absolutely everything at the club and would be here in person kicking doors down. Where is he though?
It's a nice story that tan is dictating the style of play, tactics and signings from Malaysia but surely in reality the more likely scenario is he has just lost interest?
He knows its probably not in his interests for the club to go bust but apart from that...... If we could come 20th on the cheap then I reckon he would be delighted at that yes.Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Isn't it the case the only money he is pouring in is the minimum to keep it just about alive?
Why would an owner who is paying millions into a football club be 'delighted' with finishing 20th in the Championship? Where's the logic in that suggestion?
Because the only money he is putting in is to keep the club alive from the sounds of it. Of course he would rather the gamble came off and we got promoted again but it seems we would only progress with ridiculous luck.
There seems no plan for the club to progress that I can see? The actions (or inactions) of tan/the club suggest staying alive is the main aim and staying up will be a nice bonus? What evidence is there to suggest the plan is any other than that?
Who said anything about a plan? I haven't suggested there is any kind of genuine strategy in place at the club. I'm merely disputing your claims that Vincent Tan has completely lost interest and has no involvement in the club's activities. I think you're well wide of the mark.
A couple of days ago, Mick McCarthy said the following when asked if he'd spoken to Vincent Tan recently: "I've had two or three conversations with Vincent, yes, but you'll appreciate that, the fact that I've had them, I'm not going to tell you what was said."
I don't believe Messrs Dalman and Choo have a mandate to make any significant decisions regarding the club's operations. I believe anything and everything of any note goes through the owner. And I believe that's been the case for many years.
Did you miss him making plain that if we wanted his best interest we needed to be the dragons playing in red? This is not recent and to suggest he has washed his hands of us in the past few weeks misses that the intensity of involvement curtailed a long long time ago.
I have very little doubts Tan would point anyone maintaining he has no interest in the club to the name above on the door (so to speak) and who is paying to keep us afloat.
A minor point but I wonder how these board meetings are conducted and where VT is located for them. I wonder if the club might possibly be resident in Malaysia for tax purposes.
Hardly the most pressing matter here given it makes bugger-all profit anyway and is presumably worth very little, but the bit about the board being dominated by a non-resident jarred when I read it.
I think your expectations of progress are rather lofty. Macroeconomically the world is an absolute scare right now. Tan isn't Sheik Mansour and I'm very sorry he isn't but to just talk about the money he is putting in as being minimal/as if it were little to be thankful for is very narrow minded. The club's financial statements lay out the goal and progress as at time of publishing to be to get back in the Premiership. Things have progressed on from there, it is evident that our playing and coaching staff is not as strong as had been hoped in comparison to the rest of the league and just to stay in the league for now would indeed to be the main aim. Don't worry yourself about the risk of staying alive - I don't believe for a moment that is the concern worrying the board currently for all the drama being made.
You have watched the football club this weekend wake up and pronounce they will need to look to refinance - that is also mentioned in the last set of accounts as a potential outcome should one of a few forecasted scenarios occur.
Let it dawn and readjust your own expectations accordingly as to what would be a good season for us.
No problem, virtual board meetings are permitted & the majority of members are present in UK.
Not all countries see it that way and board meetings may not be the test if the others are doing bugger-all in them. I'm not saying it's definitely a problem, but having hte rest of the board members saying "it's down to him over there" is unhelpful. I've seen this sort of thing cause issues.
This thread is massively depressing.
How we have let it get to this stage is beyond me.
I would say to those who just write off what Dalman says as lies that the time to be sure about what he says is still a while away. As I mentioned in my reaction to the statement issued by the Trust, we've seen a situation where the three most powerful people at the club on the non playing side (Tan, Dalman and Choo) have very much sang from the same hymn sheet over a period of years, now we have one of them, apparently with the backing of another, talking in a meeting with fans about at least three areas where he was in disagreement with the owner. Unless or until the owner, or someone representing him, comes back with a different version of events, there seems little point in speculating about who is right because, if there is no response from Vincent Tan, the inference would be that everything that Mehmet Dalman said about the control the owner exerts over the club, including who chooses the playing style, is fundamentally true and he doesn't have a problem with it.
He didn't say he wasn't paid by the Club, after all he is a director. He said he wasn't paid for his position as Chairman.
A quick browse on the Companies House website shows both Ken Choo and Mehmet Dalman are directors of several 'high end' car sales businesses. I believe these are ultimately owned by VT.
Mehmet, who lives in Monaco, is also a director of some finance businesses.
In the past he had ambitions to own a football club and maybe the current situation will give him his chance to make a move for CCFC. Whatever, he seems keen to show that he and VT are not singing from the same hymn sheet.
Tan needs to come out, explain the "why" behind what the club is doing and be more transparent. That would answer a lot of people's questions and stop all the back and forth bickering on here (at least for 24 hours or so).
The time for him to be visible and lead the club forward isn't when we're in the Prem and he's standing there with his ridiculous red shirt, it's now in times of trouble. We've seen nothing from him.
You can of course screw yourselves by not conducting and representing the management and control the right way to the tax authorities. Malaysia deems an entity resident - among other things - should so much as one board meeting be made in Malaysia. Of course it isn't decided upon once and never returned to - anything concrete that evidenced that the only person executing true management and control over the club was Vincent Tan wouldn't be helpful but as for wondering the residency status as it stands I would note some people don't wonder and I'm pleading the 5th as to my current employer!
I suppose some of the comments can be interpreted in a couple of different ways.
that tan has to "rubber stamp" every football decision including the playing style could mean anything from the board telling him we've hired another long ball manager and him saying ok, to him instructing the board not to appoint another inexperienced manager after we were badly burned with Trollope, to him calling up Mick McCarthy and screaming down the phone for him to play more centre backs or he'll be managing the FK Sarajevo under 11s team.
This pretty much sums up my view of what Dalman had to say. It felt like he chucked a few hand grenades in there to shift the blame on to Tan.
Most fans would read the stuff about finances (comments which were published by the BBC BTW) and accept it, even if grudgingly. Tans poured millions into a loss making club to keep it afloat and we've just come off the back of a pandemic, which reduced the clubs primary revenue stream to zero for an entire season. Also most fans would be aware that Tans other business interests are in leisure so its a fair bet he's taken a bath on them during the last 18 months as well.
Then however Dalman goes off piste with comments on the playing side of things. His comments that he wants a director of football but had been stopped by Tan are totally disingenuous because he himself had said in the past that we don't need one.
As for the comments about Tan insisting on a direct style of play, I'm a sorry but that's total bollocks. Was Solskjaer a long ball manager, or Harris? Also its difficult to imagine a manager less committed to direct football than Trollope. Of all the managers Tans appointed only Malky, Warnock and Mccarthy played that style of football and of those, the last two were brought in primarily as fire fighters at a time when the club was sliding down the table.
I'm not for one minute saying that Tan hasn't made mistakes. Even leaving aside the rebrand the lack of continuity on the non-playing side and poor managerial appointments sit squarely at his door. On the other hand if he is to leave in the near future, I suspect in time we might look back on his time and the club and reflect that on the whole it was pretty successful.
When I heard that Dalman and Choo were opposed to the transfer of Sala and that Warnock had gone behind their backs to persuade Tan directly to sign him, the film “Sliding Doors” came to mind. Did anyone else think that ?
Regarding style of play, you say it’s “total bollocks” that Tan insists on direct style of play, but the word used in the Trust e-mail is favours which is a bit different from that. Nevertheless, although I accept that Ole sides never played the sort of hoofball seen under other Tan choices, it’s quite funny to see Manchester United fans now repeating the very same things City fans used to say about him - seven years after he left us, I still have no clue what the plan was under Ole and I’d say his appointment was, in the main, down to his Manchester United connections.
You also seem to have forgotten about Russell Slade who I’d say definitely fitted the direct description and I must disagree with you about Neil Harris - he talked about trying to get us to play more football, but gave up on that in the end and I think it’s safe to say that Millwall fans would, by and large, definitely describe his sides as direct..
Therefore, I’d say that five out of seven, including the last three he has appointed, of the managerial appointments under Vincent Tan’s watch favoured direct football and of the two that didn’t, one lasted about.two months of actual playing time and the other about five and a half, so, being generous, you could say that City have had managers who didn’t want to play direct football for just one of the seasons Vincent Tan has been here for.
None of this proves our owner insists on the team playing direct football, but I’d say it definitely backs the notion that he favours it.
It sure is…just goes to show how a wealthy owner means nothing if they are clueless. 10 or 20 yrs ago I’d be gutted about our current plight but watching ccfc isn’t a big part of my life anymore….gutted for those that still go all the time after all the shit they’ve had to endure. Club is doomed
How do these meetings happen?
Are questions asked and then Dalman answers the question and move straight to the next?
I ask because there seems no push back from those in attendance on some of his answers being totally different to even the things he said in last meeting.
Dalman was said to have said previously that we do not need a DOF with suggestions that he might have even got his back up at the suggestion that we needed one.
Now he seems to suggest he is in favour of wanting a DOF but those above do not.
What changed? That is quite some change of opinion from MD.
I'm not sure if people don't want to upset the apple cart, don't want to risk not being invited back to these meetings or whatever but that above is a glaring one and there are a few more.
Maybe a follow up meeting with questions from the members of the represented groups could be something that is suggested. As it is we won't know why he has changed his mind on this and won't for some time. That is if it is even discussed at the next one.
Did he actually say Tan instructs the manager to play direct football.
Did he actually say that NONE of the out of contract players would not be offered new deals.
Also to confirm he will continue to financially back us and intends to leave us in a better position than when he left.
The meeting was arranged by summons at short notice. Meetings like this with Mehmet Dalman tend to be ad hoc. I think the last one was via Zoom last January. There was no agenda. The meeting commenced at 11.00 am and with a 12.30 kick off was limited to 45 minutes. The meeting was conducted by MD. With the current situation on the pitch, the future of the manager, how VT runs the club plus the 3 legal cases against the club and the ongoing case in Cardiff at the moment 45 minutes was hardly sufficient for the reps to absorb let alone kick back on some of the significant info that was being relayed. No time for in depth discussion. Having said that there is no reason why the Supporters Trust, Supporters Club and other reps should not ask for a follow up meeting although I imagine that MD and KC will now be fully tied up on permanently replacing MM
That's fair enough and a bit more understandable if it was to be condensed into 45 minutes.
Maybe that benefits MD. I don't know. Just seems some striking things where he has almost gone full circle went unchallenged but the time constraints go some way to explaining that one.
Is Dalman just trying that age old trick trying to make us grateful for the (abject failure) we currently have from him and Tan?
Please don’t leave us bla bla bla…..honestly, it’s so obvious.
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