Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

[blue lewj]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

Is Dalman just trying that age old trick trying to make us grateful for the (abject failure) we currently have from him and Tan?
Please don’t leave us bla bla bla…..honestly, it’s so obvious.

It certainly seems that way with him underlining that despite all that is going wrong at the club and has in the past he likes to add that VT is funding us out of his own pocket.

It is quite a bizarre meeting in quite a few ways. The timing of it, the rushed nature of it and mostly the content with washing his hands of some things, putting it on VT and some of the other things said.

[Dorcus]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

Regarding style of play, you say it’s “total bollocks” that Tan insists on direct style of play, but the word used in the Trust e-mail is favours which is a bit different from that. Nevertheless, although I accept that Ole sides never played the sort of hoofball seen under other Tan choices, it’s quite funny to see Manchester United fans now repeating the very same things City fans used to say about him - seven years after he left us, I still have no clue what the plan was under Ole and I’d say his appointment was, in the main, down to his Manchester United connections.

You also seem to have forgotten about Russell Slade who I’d say definitely fitted the direct description and I must disagree with you about Neil Harris - he talked about trying to get us to play more football, but gave up on that in the end and I think it’s safe to say that Millwall fans would, by and large, definitely describe his sides as direct..

Therefore, I’d say that five out of seven, including the last three he has appointed, of the managerial appointments under Vincent Tan’s watch favoured direct football and of the two that didn’t, one lasted about.two months of actual playing time and the other about five and a half, so, being generous, you could say that City have had managers who didn’t want to play direct football for just one of the seasons Vincent Tan has been here for.

None of this proves our owner insists on the team playing direct football, but I’d say it definitely backs the notion that he favours it.

I'm replying to your post here Bob largely because I agree with every word you say and I think it disappointing some people prefer to scrape around desperately searching for anything which will.vindicate their faith in Tan. Surely that boat sailed long ago.

However the other reason is to tap up your powers of recollection and also someone like TLG might be able to help with this.

I might be wrong how I remember the way things played out but back in the heady days of peak rebrand with Tan promising a golden dawn of riches.

Tan said he would back Malky Mackay financially in our first promotion year and Malky duly spent money on the squad. However due to the fact we had no Premier quality players in the squad at the time and despite the fact we had a number of top end Championship players, we had an awful big task to get up to speed. Our football at the time was based on being tight at the back and scoring from set pieces.

Although Malky didn't spend a fortune Tan fell out with him and I seem to remember the bone of contention was that Malky and Moody had abused Tans latitude and had massively overspent the transfer budget. The issues with the racist texts etc became an issue later on.

What I'm a little hazy about is that I seem to remember Tan's stance being that Malky had been too free with a budget of £40 million which was intended for not only transfer fees but players' wages too!!! Even though this was some 8-9 years ago an impossible constraint given our massive need to strengthen.

I highlight this episode because if it is accurate then it shows Tan's lack of knowledge and also how his plan was to invest the minimum for maximum gain.

[Hilts]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

The outcome of this meeting isnt great.

Weve now got a section of our fans believing Tan is choosing tactics and none of our out of contract players will be offered new deals.

Tan really should respond to this.

[The Hooded Claw]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

Maybe the ‘plan’ this season was that in the current financial climate, that we would just try and consolidate with a very reduced squad, get to the end of the season, sort out who’s staying from the ones whose contracts are up and push on from there.
It was probably hoped that the pandemic would be easing off, which is still an unknown in some ways.
Things obviously haven’t panned out the way they’d hoped, but my question is surely the club prepares for all eventualities in its financial planning - including the need to change the manager during the season? Dalman talks about Risk Management, which is all part of looking at different scenarios.
As usual, we’ll just have to wait and see.

[stan butler]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

Maybe the ‘plan’ this season was that in the current financial climate, that we would just try and consolidate with a very reduced squad, get to the end of the season, sort out who’s staying from the ones whose contracts are up and push on from there.
It was probably hoped that the pandemic would be easing off, which is still an unknown in some ways.
Things obviously haven’t panned out the way they’d hoped, but my question is surely the club prepares for all eventualities in its financial planning - including the need to change the manager during the season? Dalman talks about Risk Management, which is all part of looking at different scenarios.
As usual, we’ll just have to wait and see.

Thats near to what my view of the situation is.
I'm hoping it's a season of cutting costs and clearing the dead wood ie players on high wages or just not good enough then starting a fresh build of the squad..
It's just a case of wait and see

[blue lewj]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

If people question how much an owner/owners can be so hands on and dismiss any suggestion as complete bollocks I would suggest watching The Four Year Plan on Amazon Prime.

Some of it was downright crazy. Sending people from the stand to the dugout to make an immediate substitution, no questions asked 😄

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

Is Dalman just trying that age old trick trying to make us grateful for the (abject failure) we currently have from him and Tan?
Please don’t leave us bla bla bla…..honestly, it’s so obvious.

It’s now about eleven and a half years since there was confirmation that Vincent Tan was formally confirmed as a benefactor of the club and when you apply his leaving us in a better state than when he arrived test, you have to say at the moment that he is failing.

Virtually the first thing he did when he became involved with City was to pay the HMRC bill was threatening the existence of the club during much of the 09/10 season, so, although we appear to be struggling as badly on the financial side as we have done in the Tan era, it’s not as bad as it was under the latter days of Peter Ridsdale.

Despite the problems off the pitch, the 09/10 maintained a promotion challenge throughout the season, eventually finishing fourth to reach the Play Offs and that is a Championship position that has only been bettered in our two promotion seasons during the Tan era. So, while there have been times when it can be said that we were more successful than in 09/10, it’s far more debatable overall and I’d argue that you have to grade it as was - certainly, with two club worst ever records having been set on the weekend, there are can be no argument whatsoever that we are worse off now than when Vincent Tan arrived.

When you consider the other things which are measurable, the picture isn’t great either. Vincent Tan has delivered when it comes to increasing the capacity of the ground, but we’re still awaiting the club owned training centre that was being talked about in 2012 and, although progress has been made on the debt to equity front, it’s not at the stage that was being promised a few years ago. Gates are below 09/10 levels although the fact that was the first season that we played in the new ground needs to be borne in mind.

Quality of football is something that has become increasingly important to me as the Tan years have gone by and it’s absolutely no contest there - we weren’t always great to watch in 09/10, but there were quite a few times when we certainly were, whereas I’m struggling to remember the last game I saw us play when we were entertaining as I define that word.

Add in that we’ve spent a huge amount of money by our standards in the process and the totally pointless rebrand and I’d definitely say that, particularly at the moment, Vincent Tan is failing his own test.

[fred keenor]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

I would say to those who just write off what Dalman says as lies that the time to be sure about what he says is still a while away. As I mentioned in my reaction to the statement issued by the Trust, we've seen a situation where the three most powerful people at the club on the non playing side (Tan, Dalman and Choo) have very much sang from the same hymn sheet over a period of years, now we have one of them, apparently with the backing of another, talking in a meeting with fans about at least three areas where he was in disagreement with the owner. Unless or until the owner, or someone representing him, comes back with a different version of events, there seems little point in speculating about who is right because, if there is no response from Vincent Tan, the inference would be that everything that Mehmet Dalman said about the control the owner exerts over the club, including who chooses the playing style, is fundamentally true and he doesn't have a problem with it.

Jalil Rasheed
@jalilword
Big weekend with some difficult decisions made. Not a nice situation to be in. Hopefully the start of better things to come, with the limited resources we have. Lots of work being undertaken behind the scenes. Important that some affairs are held behind closed doors too.

VT CEO Jalil, Comments about some things should stay behind closed doors.

Wheres that revolving door

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

I'm replying to your post here Bob largely because I agree with every word you say and I think it disappointing some people prefer to scrape around desperately searching for anything which will.vindicate their faith in Tan. Surely that boat sailed long ago.

However the other reason is to tap up your powers of recollection and also someone like TLG might be able to help with this.

I might be wrong how I remember the way things played out but back in the heady days of peak rebrand with Tan promising a golden dawn of riches.

Tan said he would back Malky Mackay financially in our first promotion year and Malky duly spent money on the squad. However due to the fact we had no Premier quality players in the squad at the time and despite the fact we had a number of top end Championship players, we had an awful big task to get up to speed. Our football at the time was based on being tight at the back and scoring from set pieces.

Although Malky didn't spend a fortune Tan fell out with him and I seem to remember the bone of contention was that Malky and Moody had abused Tans latitude and had massively overspent the transfer budget. The issues with the racist texts etc became an issue later on.

What I'm a little hazy about is that I seem to remember Tan's stance being that Malky had been too free with a budget of £40 million which was intended for not only transfer fees but players' wages too!!! Even though this was some 8-9 years ago an impossible constraint given our massive need to strengthen.

I highlight this episode because if it is accurate then it shows Tan's lack of knowledge and also how his plan was to invest the minimum for maximum gain.

I’d say you’ve got most things right there. Regarding the summer of 2013 as we prepared for our first Premier League season, it was clearly the Cornelius transfer that most concerned Vincent Tan more than any other, but I can’t remember it ever being more than something that reported in one or two places that the £40 million figure included wages as well - I’m not saying it’s wrong, just that I’d be surprised that it didn’t generate more attention if it were true. So, I’m sorry I can’t be of more help, but I can’t confirm or deny what you say with any confidence.

[Delbert]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

Jalil Rasheed
@jalilword
Big weekend with some difficult decisions made. Not a nice situation to be in. Hopefully the start of better things to come, with the limited resources we have. Lots of work being undertaken behind the scenes. Important that some affairs are held behind closed doors too.

VT CEO Jalil, Comments about some things should stay behind closed doors.

Wheres that revolving door

I think we can assume from that that VT was not amused by Dalman and Choo’s public criticism of him. Interesting times.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

The club are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

If they dont keep the fans informed they are accused of lack of transparency.

When they are open and honest that we are in the shit financially, and that there wont be any transfer kitty for another couple of windows, then people start to lose their shit.

What happened to "Rather be blue in League Two"?

[wberksblue]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

For me, all this talk of "re-financing" the club is just a complete smokescreen for what's actually going on - the club is being stripped bare.

It's understandable given that Tan's businesses have probably struggled during the pandemic and the club is engulfed in legal battles, but if he's not able to properly support the football side of the business, he needs to admit that and walk away. Dalman keeps saying that Tan has had offers to sell and refused them, but for me that's not because of his commitment to the success of the club, it's because he wants to get his money back.

Since we were relegated the club has talked about cutting down the size of the squad and wage budget, making it sustainable. But in comparison to so many clubs at our level, we never had an oversized playing squad and we didn't have big earners. Some players who didn't play enough to justify their salary, yes, but no one earning a extortionate amount.

Over the past year we've cut back on our playing budget even further. With the players out of contract next summer, we're going to be extremely light on senior players. It's not "sustainable" for a Championship club to be so low on senior players.

Dalman's comment that he didn't think they would have to worry about the football side of things is extremely worrying. The board think that this level of investment in the playing squad is enough to survive comfortably in the league. Okay, McCarthy hasn't helped, but our best starting XI is full of gap-fillers, rather than players thriving in their favoured positions. That's not going to cut it for long at this level, especially once the out-of-contract players leave.

And finally, what manager is going to want to come to this club based on what Dalman has told the supporters groups? Moore is surely destined for the door in January to add to our problems, and there's likely no transfer budget for the next two windows.

There's no chance that Wilder comes in based on that arrangement, and it's unlikely that we'd offer him enough money. Dalman has said he's not willing to take the risk on an unproven young manager, and we're not going to be buying someone out of contract from another club. So who does that leave us with? Someone like Mark Bowen is looking most likely.

We're on the verge of being in dire straits, and it's absolutely essential that fans are putting pressure on the board to act differently, because they're clearly blind to how bad the footballing situation may soon become.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

For me, all this talk of "re-financing" the club is just a complete smokescreen for what's actually going on - the club is being stripped bare.

It's understandable given that Tan's businesses have probably struggled during the pandemic and the club is engulfed in legal battles, but if he's not able to properly support the football side of the business, he needs to admit that and walk away. Dalman keeps saying that Tan has had offers to sell and refused them, but for me that's not because of his commitment to the success of the club, it's because he wants to get his money back.

Since we were relegated the club has talked about cutting down the size of the squad and wage budget, making it sustainable. But in comparison to so many clubs at our level, we never had an oversized playing squad and we didn't have big earners. Some players who didn't play enough to justify their salary, yes, but no one earning a extortionate amount.

Over the past year we've cut back on our playing budget even further. With the players out of contract next summer, we're going to be extremely light on senior players. It's not "sustainable" for a Championship club to be so low on senior players.

Dalman's comment that he didn't think they would have to worry about the football side of things is extremely worrying. The board think that this level of investment in the playing squad is enough to survive comfortably in the league. Okay, McCarthy hasn't helped, but our best starting XI is full of gap-fillers, rather than players thriving in their favoured positions. That's not going to cut it for long at this level, especially once the out-of-contract players leave.

And finally, what manager is going to want to come to this club based on what Dalman has told the supporters groups? Moore is surely destined for the door in January to add to our problems, and there's likely no transfer budget for the next two windows.

There's no chance that Wilder comes in based on that arrangement, and it's unlikely that we'd offer him enough money. Dalman has said he's not willing to take the risk on an unproven young manager, and we're not going to be buying someone out of contract from another club. So who does that leave us with? Someone like Mark Bowen is looking most likely.

We're on the verge of being in dire straits, and it's absolutely essential that fans are putting pressure on the board to act differently, because they're clearly blind to how bad the footballing situation may soon become.

Good post.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

Good post.

Agreed. Particularly the final paragraph

We're on the verge of being in dire straits, and it's absolutely essential that fans are putting pressure on the board to act differently, because they're clearly blind to how bad the footballing situation may soon become.

I used to post we're a club in decline. I now feel we're a club in rapid decline.

[Mr Soul '68]

Re: Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives yesterday.

For me, all this talk of "re-financing" the club is just a complete smokescreen for what's actually going on - the club is being stripped bare.

It's understandable given that Tan's businesses have probably struggled during the pandemic and the club is engulfed in legal battles, but if he's not able to properly support the football side of the business, he needs to admit that and walk away. Dalman keeps saying that Tan has had offers to sell and refused them, but for me that's not because of his commitment to the success of the club, it's because he wants to get his money back.

Since we were relegated the club has talked about cutting down the size of the squad and wage budget, making it sustainable. But in comparison to so many clubs at our level, we never had an oversized playing squad and we didn't have big earners. Some players who didn't play enough to justify their salary, yes, but no one earning a extortionate amount.

Over the past year we've cut back on our playing budget even further. With the players out of contract next summer, we're going to be extremely light on senior players. It's not "sustainable" for a Championship club to be so low on senior players.

Dalman's comment that he didn't think they would have to worry about the football side of things is extremely worrying. The board think that this level of investment in the playing squad is enough to survive comfortably in the league. Okay, McCarthy hasn't helped, but our best starting XI is full of gap-fillers, rather than players thriving in their favoured positions. That's not going to cut it for long at this level, especially once the out-of-contract players leave.

And finally, what manager is going to want to come to this club based on what Dalman has told the supporters groups? Moore is surely destined for the door in January to add to our problems, and there's likely no transfer budget for the next two windows.

There's no chance that Wilder comes in based on that arrangement, and it's unlikely that we'd offer him enough money. Dalman has said he's not willing to take the risk on an unproven young manager, and we're not going to be buying someone out of contract from another club. So who does that leave us with? Someone like Mark Bowen is looking most likely.

We're on the verge of being in dire straits, and it's absolutely essential that fans are putting pressure on the board to act differently, because they're clearly blind to how bad the footballing situation may soon become.

Personally, I think Tan isn't interested in the club in the least and hasn't been since we turned back to blue, despite the flim-flam people write on here about him putting his hand in his pocket to keep us afloat. I don't believe for one minute that there has been one concrete offer for the club

The way things look, he is willing to take a loss on us if we go down

If I was a gambling man, which I am not, I think we'll go for Mike Flynn. He's currently out of work. Lives locally. Will be cheap, and saved Cewnty from going out of the league a few seasons back. Sooooo...therefore we'll end up with Chris Wilder lol