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Thread: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

  1. #126

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    nobody is saying that the USA is perfect, but there is no comparison with Putin.
    I'd rather be a presidential candidate in the US than Russia, that's for sure.

  2. #127

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    I'd rather be a presidential candidate in the US than Russia, that's for sure.
    or a journalist

  3. #128

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Roman Abramovich has seen his fortune fall by some £650m in a single day, with investors fearing the Chelsea owner's investments could be impacted by the situation between Russia and Ukraine.

    Turn the tanks around Vlad mate

  4. #129

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    or a journalist
    or anyone

  5. #130

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    nobody is saying that the USA is perfect, but there is no comparison with Putin.
    In terms of internal democracy, press freedom etc. relating solely to their own country, then I think that's fair. The US/UK have far more complex and subtle mechanisms for maintaining the status quo.

    However, the US and UK have far more influence when it comes to silencing political rivals and manipulating other nations for their own gain. I think OurManFlint II was referring to 50 nations where the US and UK have manipulated a country's leadership through sanctions, sabotage, forced regime change etc. I think 50 is a fairly modest estimate.

  6. #131

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Holt View Post
    In terms of internal democracy, press freedom etc. relating solely to their own country, then I think that's fair. The US/UK have far more complex and subtle mechanisms for maintaining the status quo.

    However, the US and UK have far more influence when it comes to silencing political rivals and manipulating other nations for their own gain. I think OurManFlint II was referring to 50 nations where the US and UK have manipulated a country's leadership through sanctions, sabotage, forced regime change etc. I think 50 is a fairly modest estimate.
    Exactly, it was a point about not suffering political rivalries. 50 is indeed modest.

  7. #132

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    not sure what that is for, I do follow the news and i'm not a putin apologist.

    Have you read anna politkovskaya, amazing what she went through and did, lucky for her it was quick. The Luke Harding's book is also interesting?

  8. #133

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Genuine question, why does the USA get involved in trying to ‘clean up’ situations thousands of miles from its shores, very often f*cking things up and making them worse? There are atrocities taking place on their doorstep, 9 shot dead at a funeral at a Mexican border city, Ciudad Juárez, the other day. The city on the USA border has the highest nationwide murder rate, a rate of four a day.

    Some shocking things occurring in Central & South America, people fleeing to the US to try and escape the horrors. Yet some Americans complain about illegal immigration, if they channelled a few dollars south of the border in an attempt to clean things up perhaps the rush to the States would slow down. Or is the supply of cocaine important to the nostrils of many Americans, so important that they want to maintain the status quo.

    I wonder how many billions of dollars have been spent attempting and failing to clear up problems in places that 90% of Americans couldn’t point out on a map?

  9. #134

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    DDoS attack: Multiple websites in #Ukraine are unreachable, including the Ministry of Defence, the Armed Forces, Privatbank, and Oschadbank, the Ukrainian cybersecurity center says.

    Many ATM's are down and people are crashing the systems by panicking and try to draw all money at once

  10. #135

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    Roman Abramovich has seen his fortune fall by some £650m in a single day, with investors fearing the Chelsea owner's investments could be impacted by the situation between Russia and Ukraine.

    Turn the tanks around Vlad mate
    Isn’t he already announcing he has won? So can now withdraw the forces….. just mental stuff. The west lost apparently.

  11. #136

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    Isn’t he already announcing he has won? So can now withdraw the forces….. just mental stuff. The west lost apparently.
    Oligarchs win "the rule of the few". ... saw through.

  12. #137

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    DDoS attack: Multiple websites in #Ukraine are unreachable, including the Ministry of Defence, the Armed Forces, Privatbank, and Oschadbank, the Ukrainian cybersecurity center says.

    Many ATM's are down and people are crashing the systems by panicking and try to draw all money at once
    one of the early plays is to destabilize the country you want to invade

  13. #138

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Russia staging false flag operations

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...02#source=push

  14. #139

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    Russia staging false flag operations

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...02#source=push
    Since when have you started to believe main stream media? Judging by your efforts in the Trump thread. Is it only when it suits you to?

  15. #140

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    Interested to know who your comments are aimed at, I’ve only see one post siding with Putin in this thread and I’m guessing that he would only call someone comrade if he was taking the piss.
    Interested to know what pushed your button enough to ask that question.

  16. #141

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close


  17. #142

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Both very interesting - particularly the second one.

  18. #143

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Everyone says 'stand up' to Putin, 'be firm', but the harsh reality is that cutting off wealthy Russians from their foreign wealth & assets wouldn't bother Putin 1 bit. Also the pipeline is crucial to Germany and if it is stopped/cut off, Putin has now even bigger markets in China for his gas. And China is the key. There's a 100 years of pent up resentment against the West and China is now in a position to throw it's weight around in a more public, direct manner. Depending on the West's response to any invasion of Ukraine, China will judge when and how to do the same to Taiwan. And because of China, Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine until after the end of the winter olympics, ie Wednesday.

  19. #144

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Holt View Post
    Freedom of speech. Unless you expose their war crimes, in which case they'll plot to assassinate you, bribe key witnesses to lie in court, leave you to rot in Belmarsh prison, try to extradite you so they can perform a show trial and chuck you in solitary confinement for the rest of your life etc. etc.

    Calling the US a democracy is also a bit of a stretch. Same goes for the UK. But they're not as bad as Russia so it's fine.
    Did you study talking shit or did it come natural to you?.

  20. #145

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Everyone says 'stand up' to Putin, 'be firm', but the harsh reality is that cutting off wealthy Russians from their foreign wealth & assets wouldn't bother Putin 1 bit. Also the pipeline is crucial to Germany and if it is stopped/cut off, Putin has now even bigger markets in China for his gas. And China is the key. There's a 100 years of pent up resentment against the West and China is now in a position to throw it's weight around in a more public, direct manner. Depending on the West's response to any invasion of Ukraine, China will judge when and how to do the same to Taiwan. And because of China, Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine until after the end of the winter olympics, ie Wednesday.
    Cutting off the ability to spend money abroad is exactly how to hurt the Russians and Putin.

  21. #146

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    Everyone says 'stand up' to Putin, 'be firm', but the harsh reality is that cutting off wealthy Russians from their foreign wealth & assets wouldn't bother Putin 1 bit. Also the pipeline is crucial to Germany and if it is stopped/cut off, Putin has now even bigger markets in China for his gas. And China is the key. There's a 100 years of pent up resentment against the West and China is now in a position to throw it's weight around in a more public, direct manner. Depending on the West's response to any invasion of Ukraine, China will judge when and how to do the same to Taiwan. And because of China, Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine until after the end of the winter olympics, ie Wednesday.
    If China sides with Russia and then looks to expand ( they seem to have issues with borders anyway ) then it would be great to see the world shun them, our dependance of China for stuff is not a good place for the world to be, how we ( the rest of the world ) let ourselves get in this situation baffles me

  22. #147

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    If China sides with Russia and then looks to expand ( they seem to have issues with borders anyway ) then it would be great to see the world shun them, our dependance of China for stuff is not a good place for the world to be, how we ( the rest of the world ) let ourselves get in this situation baffles me
    Blimey - shun China? Russia too, I guess. Latest is that we are trying to strike deals with individual US States as a national US deal looks a very distant prospect. Who on earth are we going to have left to trade with? Thank goodness that we still have large democracies on our doorstep who share our values. Oh, hang on...

  23. #148

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    If China sides with Russia and then looks to expand ( they seem to have issues with borders anyway ) then it would be great to see the world shun them, our dependance of China for stuff is not a good place for the world to be, how we ( the rest of the world ) let ourselves get in this situation baffles me
    the 'west' has been sleepwalking for the past 15yrs as China has made Europe and large parts of Asia and Africa - dependent upon China financially and economically. China ignores international patent/copyright laws, and uses the West's technologies against themselves. China really has got us where they want us..

  24. #149
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    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiss Peter View Post
    Blimey - shun China? Russia too, I guess. Latest is that we are trying to strike deals with individual US States as a national US deal looks a very distant prospect. Who on earth are we going to have left to trade with? Thank goodness that we still have large democracies on our doorstep who share our values. Oh, hang on...
    Where on earth did you get that from? I'd genuinely like to know!!!

    Also, when you say 'we', do you mean UK or Switzerland?

  25. #150

    Re: Ukraine Conflict Getting Very Close

    Quote Originally Posted by xsnaggle View Post
    Where on earth did you get that from? I'd genuinely like to know!!!

    Also, when you say 'we', do you mean UK or Switzerland?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2...02d8cdf887ccf0

    There you go!

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