Ryan Jones Dementia

[chrisp_1927]

Would the ferocity of tackling we see in matches be fully replicated in training though?I don’t know the answer to that question, but I would have thought it would be limited to things like tackle bags, so the question would be do they involve multiple head collisions?

Admittedly I haven't read much of the latest research that's come out. But the stuff coming out about 18 months ago seemed to suggest that it was the accumulation of loads and loads of sub concussions that did as much or more damage than the less regular proper concussions/knockouts.

I think we need to see a lot less games being played aswell. As you mentioned the other day, seasons are now essentially 11 months long. Not good in a collision based game.

[Majorblue]

Would the ferocity of tackling we see in matches be fully replicated in training though?I don’t know the answer to that question, but I would have thought it would be limited to things like tackle bags, so the question would be do they involve multiple head collisions?

Probably differs from club to club.

I do some limited junior coaching and the youngsters only play tag rugby up to U14.

In training over that age then tackle technique is emphasised and physical contact is kept to a minimum with tackle bags mostly used.

My understanding is that the senior teams also now restrict full contact training with moves being walked through with absolute minimum contact.

Obviously this is one club, in Surrey but I do think this is much more prevalent as a way of training throughout the game.

Obviously some way to go as there was a case with the England U19’s ( I think) where the team doctor appeared to have ignored the official advice.

That type of attitude may still be relevant, especially in the older generation, as witnessed by the comments referred to above attributed to a certain hooker.

[qccfc]

Probably differs from club to club.

I do some limited junior coaching and the youngsters only play tag rugby up to U14.

In training over that age then tackle technique is emphasised and physical contact is kept to a minimum with tackle bags mostly used.

My understanding is that the senior teams also now restrict full contact training with moves being walked through with absolute minimum contact.

Obviously this is one club, in Surrey but I do think this is much more prevalent as a way of training throughout the game.

Obviously some way to go as there was a case with the England U19’s ( I think) where the team doctor appeared to have ignored the official advice.

That type of attitude may still be relevant, especially in the older generation, as witnessed by the comments referred to above attributed to a certain hooker.

Its different in Wales where tag is only played for U7s and U8s. The first year of contact it U9s.

[North Cardiff Blue]

No, I'm pretty sure you're right.

This is shocking news. Ryan Jones came over as bright, likeable and a natural leader.

One of the things which put me off rugby after it went fully professional was when, around twenty years ago, I began to notice commentators and pundits almost getting more excited about "big hits" than they would do about tries being scored.

Rugby used to be a sport where you looked to avoid contact and it was a game played to a very high standard by, skilful, smaller men, but with human beings getting bigger because of natural progression, a move towards much bigger backs and the switch to a more power based game where contact is encouraged, it's a different game to what it was and so there are no precedents from the game decades ago about the extent to which we can expect modern day players and those not retired that long ago to not suffer the fate of Ryan Jones and a few others.

Look at all of the modern day players with concussion issues. Rugby is more aware of its inherent dangers than it once was, but it still has an awful long way to go - my best wishes to Ryan Jones and his family, sadly I don't think he'll be the last prominent rugby player from the fairly recent past to receive such devastating news so early in his life.

American football has all the padding and helmets for a reason.

[chrisp_1927]

American football has all the padding and helmets for a reason.

They still have a massive problem with early dementia for players mind. Seems like that head shaking is a hard movement to be able to dampen/protect against through padding.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Would the ferocity of tackling we see in matches be fully replicated in training though?I don’t know the answer to that question, but I would have thought it would be limited to things like tackle bags, so the question would be do they involve multiple head collisions?

Full contact training is limited now at all levels.

It's not just head contact that is the problem, repeated contact to the body causing jolting movements is also an issue. Some of the tackles you see now must be similar to being run over.

The suggestions around reducing risk are, less substitutions, less games per season, longer lay off periods for head injuries and better diagnosis at pitch side.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

We choose to play the game we know the problems what can happen !! Problems happen even if you don’t play sport

— Andy Powell (@andypowell8) July 17, 2022

Andy Powell stirring the pot

And then direct messaging Gareth Anscombes wife after she called him out on it giving her verbals.

The guy is a cock.

[Wash DC Blue]

And then direct messaging Gareth Anscombes wife after she called him out on it giving her verbals.

The guy is a cock.

Yep, that comes across as crass at best.

Many have mentioned the size increase of players being a factor and I'd have to agree.
It's made the game more power based and attritional.

It's made the game less enjoyable to watch for me, I've not even bothered with the Wales games lately.

[The Bloop]

And then direct messaging Gareth Anscombes wife after she called him out on it giving her verbals.

The guy is a cock.

Yep, that comes across as crass at best.

Many have mentioned the size increase of players being a factor and I'd have to agree.
It's made the game more power based and attritional.

It's made the game less enjoyable to watch for me, I've not even bothered with the Wales games lately.

He has deleted his original tweet and posted an apology of sorts this morning. He does say that he thought he was tweeting Gareth Anscombe himself and not his wife. Haven't seen that myself to know if that makes any difference?
Still tend to agree with HP Flashmans appraisal of him though.

[chrisp_1927]

Full contact training is limited now at all levels.

It's not just head contact that is the problem, repeated contact to the body causing jolting movements is also an issue. Some of the tackles you see now must be similar to being run over.

The suggestions around reducing risk are, less substitutions, less games per season, longer lay off periods for head injuries and better diagnosis at pitch side.

I think it was Gatland that first suggested the less subs idea. Think it makes a lot of sense myself. So many players who only ever play 45/50 minutes and are conditioned to absolute hammer it for that time. If they had to play the full 80 they'd have to lose a fair it of bulk, and pace themselves throughout the game.

[Hilts]

Steve Thompson said the clubs invested in getting them bigger. His neck went from size 16 to size 26.

They need drastic changes.

[Hilts]

I think it was Gatland that first suggested the less subs idea. Think it makes a lot of sense myself. So many players who only ever play 45/50 minutes and are conditioned to absolute hammer it for that time. If they had to play the full 80 they'd have to lose a fair it of bulk, and pace themselves throughout the game.

Exactly right.

Its an obvious change.

[Pearcey3]

And then direct messaging Gareth Anscombes wife after she called him out on it giving her verbals.

The guy is a cock.

Yes he is. No one knew back in Ryan Jones playing days about the dangers of ending up with dementia.
It was a thoughtless thing to say

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

We choose to play the game we know the problems what can happen !! Problems happen even if you don’t play sport

— Andy Powell (@andypowell8) July 17, 2022

Andy Powell stirring the pot

He's thick as feck to be fair

[UNDERHILL1927]

He's thick as feck to be fair

Thick as two short planks

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Another rugby player diagnosed with a horrendous degenerative condition at a young age - Gloucester's Ed Slater has motor neurone disease at 33.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62255266

[JamesWales]

Another rugby player diagnosed with a horrendous degenerative condition at a young age - Gloucester's Ed Slater has motor neurone disease at 33.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62255266

Horrible. Poor bloke, I feel so sorry for him.