The Greatest Player of all time

[MOZZER2]

some say wins the BallonDor award again . what an achievement

Messi Has won The Ballondor For the 8th Time
🐐Goat Messi 🔥#BallonDorpic.twitter.com/8EWWvWoArF

— VINEETH𓃵🦖 (@sololoveee) October 31, 2023

[the other bob wilson]

Was always a Maradona fan and I used to say Messi could not be the best ever while he didn't have a World Cup winner's medal, I'm not going to think up another reason now not to rate him as the best. I'm just old enough to have seen Pele at his best, but, even so, that still leaves not far short of a centuries worth of best players in the world I've never seen play. That's what makes best ever judgments virtually impossible, there are so many greats that we don't even have video of, but Messi is the best I've seen as I almost reach my three score years and ten.

[lardy]

Was always a Maradona fan and I used to say Messi could not be the best ever while he didn't have a World Cup winner's medal, I'm not going to think up another reason now not to rate him as the best. I'm just old enough to have seen Pele at his best, but, even so, that still leaves not far short of a centuries worth of best players in the world I've never seen play. That's what makes best ever judgments virtually impossible, there are so many greats that we don't even have video of, but Messi is the best I've seen as I almost reach my three score years and ten.

I always thought that winning/not winning the world cup was not the right reason to judge a player.

Had burrachaga missed in 1986 and higuain scored in 2014, those world cup trophies would be the other way round. How can Messi and Maradona be separated on that basis?

[The Bloop]

I always thought that winning/not winning the world cup was not the right reason to judge a player.

Had burrachaga missed in 1986 and higuain scored in 2014, those world cup trophies would be the other way round. How can Messi and Maradona be separated on that basis?

Going off on a tangent, I get equally perplexed by man of the match awards. Think it was the end of the Kilmarnock game on Sky, and the analysts gave the award to one of the goalscorers. When awarding it he said that he wasn't the best player on the pitch, but had the most decisive intervention.

[the other bob wilson]

I always thought that winning/not winning the world cup was not the right reason to judge a player.

Had burrachaga missed in 1986 and higuain scored in 2014, those world cup trophies would be the other way round. How can Messi and Maradona be separated on that basis?

So we disagree then. Fair enough.

[MacAdder]

Haaland must be wondering what he's got to do to win it.

If the way to win the thing is to win the world cup then I doubt he will no matter what he does.

Few doubt how good Messi is but did he really have a better season than EH?

They have made it all about Messi and Ronaldo lately and the tag GOAT.

[neilw65]

So we disagree then. Fair enough.

To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only

[lardy]

To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only

And only certain generations of those countries.

Maradonas performance in 1986 undoubtedly puts him right at the very best who have ever played, no doubt there. It's entirely justified. But if Argentina had lost the final, Maradona would still be exactly as good a player.

[the other bob wilson]

To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only

The thread is titled best player of all time though and, until last year, that was Maradona for me,so, we’re talking about two players from the same country. Therefore, I thought the fact that one of them won a World Cup (no side that wins a World Cup can be called a one man team, but Argentina 1986 was the closest I’ve seen to one).That used to put Maradona over Messi for me, but I’ve changed my mind now because of Messi’s better club career.

[Rjk]

Messi is clear in my opinion. Pele second.

I don't think Messi should have had the Ballon d'Or this year though, Haaland or Mbappe have a much better shout in my opinion.

[splott parker]

Should be best player of ‘my lifetime’ not all time.So many great players from every era, players that, because of lack of footage, have no way of their case being put forward. This messageboard is a ‘best player of the last 50 years or so’ situation.

[lardy]

Should be best player of ‘my lifetime’ not all time.So many great players from every era, players that, because of lack of footage, have no way of their case being put forward. This messageboard is a ‘best player of the last 50 years or so’ situation.

Here we go, Dixie Dean again...

[North Cardiff Blue]

To be honest, I agree with Lardy. Some people, including Bobby Robson and Jimmy Greaves, rated John Charles as the greatest they had ever seen, and he never won a World Cup. If the criteria is that to be the best player in the world you have to have won the World Cup, that would restrict it top players from around 8 countries only

Agreed the World Cup is won by the best Countries not the best players, if you're the best player in the World and from Pakistan you can't sign for Argentina or Brazil.

I'd say the best player is Messi followed by Maradona.

[splott parker]

Here we go, Dixie Dean again...

Good shout, have a look at his goal scoring feats. In the British game there’s Billy Meredith, Alex James, Tommy Lawton etc etc. That’s aside from players from World Cup winners Uruguay, Italy, the great Magyars of the 50s. I’m blowing a trumpet for the oldies

[NYCBlue]

The World Cup thing is nonsense. George Best was close to being one of the best players in the world in his heyday. Even if he was head and shoulders above everyone else there was no way he was ever winning a World Cup.

[the other bob wilson]

The World Cup thing is nonsense. George Best was close to being one of the best players in the world in his heyday. Even if he was head and shoulders above everyone else there was no way he was ever winning a World Cup.

I really wish I hadn’t said anything. Are we arguing then that if you are comparing two players from the same country which has won the World Cup twice, the fact that one of them had a winner’s medal which Argentina wouldn’t have won without him and the other had been a member of arguably better squads that had all failed in the competition should not be a factor when making a comparison between them?

[lardy]

I really wish I hadn’t said anything. Are we arguing then that if you are comparing two players from the same country which has won the World Cup twice, the fact that one of them had a winner’s medal which Argentina wouldn’t have won without him and the other had been a member of arguably better squads that had all failed in the competition should not be a factor when making a comparison between them?

It can be a factor, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor between the two, which is what I often see (or saw, anyway).

If Messi had never gone beyond the quarters then perhaps, but that's not the case. The difference boiled down to Burrachaga scoring and Higuain missing.

[NYCBlue]

I really wish I hadn’t said anything. Are we arguing then that if you are comparing two players from the same country which has won the World Cup twice, the fact that one of them had a winner’s medal which Argentina wouldn’t have won without him and the other had been a member of arguably better squads that had all failed in the competition should not be a factor when making a comparison between them?

Yes. Because football is a team sport. What if Pele was from Ecuador instead of Brazil?

[xsnaggle]

John Charles

[William Treseder]

We all know it’s all about opinions. In my humble opinion, it’s not even close between LM & DM.
I think Maradona is by far the best player I’ve seen so far.

[Wash DC Blue]

Maradona all day for me.

Doing what he did for Napoli against Italian defences while having lumps kicked out of him week in week out.

[Tuerto]

It can be a factor, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor between the two, which is what I often see (or saw, anyway).

If Messi had never gone beyond the quarters then perhaps, but that's not the case. The difference boiled down to Burrachaga scoring and Higuain missing.

I think that Bob has a shout concerning Messi and Maradona because there are so many similarities involved, even down to their size and the way they played the game. To use a boxing analogy, the world winning thing could be demed the 12th round, between two brilliant performers who were, are head and shoulders above the rest. It all rests on the final round on who is deemed the best. Still not conclusive and only opinion, but perfectly reasonable when comparing maradona and messi (in my opinion)

[Tuerto]

It can be a factor, but I don't think it should be the deciding factor between the two, which is what I often see (or saw, anyway).

If Messi had never gone beyond the quarters then perhaps, but that's not the case. The difference boiled down to Burrachaga scoring and Higuain missing.

When would it be the deciding factor-Who decides?

[Tuerto]

We all know it’s all about opinions. In my humble opinion, it’s not even close between LM & DM.
I think Maradona is by far the best player I’ve seen so far.

I agree (not with the close bit though)

[bobh]

Maradona and Messi scored goals, but for me, the best player in my lifetime (ie who had the most influence in the team0 has to be

Cruyff.

Before my time, but Puskas and Di Stefano were rumoured to be rather good.