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There must've been a moment very early on in this when the Post Office had a choice of trusting the subpostmasters and investigating Fujitsu (and then suing them if the system was found to be faulty) or trusting Fujitsu and going after the subpostmasters instead. I wonder if we'll ever find out who made that call. It puts trusting Runnarsson over Alnwick into perspective.Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
The post office counters system would have to be pretty good, they do so many services, the platform would have to be very robust, It was a difficult task, but yes if they got the contract it should have had to work and should have been fit for purpose, the government should definitely do whatever it takes to get some of the money back from them.
Nice one I'll look up the panorama episode
There's a link to a Panorama episode from nine years ago below.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67884743
This comment ties in with my earlier post about why the sub-postmasters and mistresses didn't appear to do their own basic booking for say 24 hours which would have proved that their Horizon account was being skewed - and then presented this evidence to the courts.
I haven't seen much mention of something that featured prominently in the ITV series, the deliberate manipulation of Horizon by Fujitsu to manufacture deficits. We hear about gliches in the software, but this was deliberate invasive action and it could only be called a gliche because Fujitsu created a back-door whereby individual accounts could be altered.The purpose being to increase Post Office (and presumably their own) profits
Nice one
Apologies. I must have missed your missive. We are of the same mind here, it seems.
By the way, a certain someone is doing 4 dates in the UK next May....
Sitting down throughout and with a nubile chick singer?
You mustn't judge everybody using your own standards
I did see Johnny Winter twice at Wells and Exeter!) and not that long before he died when he was lifted to his stool by two assistants - and he went on to play the most amazing mellow blues set.
Using the Cherry Ghost tune (People) at the end….covered by Birdy 👍
Quite.You mustn't judge everybody using your own standards
Last nubile chick singer I sat down with was Donna Lewis.
I can’t believe the PO was allowed to investigate its own people with its own internal “police force”., and that one of the things that should change immediately. I appreciate money will never compensate for what the post masters/mistresses have been through but they should get at least £1 million each and Fujitsu, never ever be awarded another government contract.
Labour Government knew about it. Never trust computers or is it never trust the government. People who question government policies are often called out a lot of the time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495
The Post Office could owe £100m in tax too as they were claiming tax relief on compensation payments which you're not allowed to do
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status...20610893434993
£935m was mentioned on the radio this morning but I presume this was the figure that tax was being claimed on.
You’re the only one’ is a common response. Doctors enquiring about thalidomide defects were told that, so were sub postmasters struggling with Horizon.
There was an IT system before that which needs looking at .
System's such as this are brought in for a reason, usually accountability , because of known irregular accounting .
Royal Mail has successfully policed itself for decades ..
Is it yesterday's chip paper yet?
No, following it every day
There is a lying Scottish barstard in the box today
Still in papers today, saying earlier it system was faulty as well and they prosecuted innocents then as well. Also until Sunak stepped in they were still at it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-68089538
Scroll down to I and FT papers
isn't HMG the owner?
It gets worse and worse for those who were running the Post Office, government don’t come out too well either
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300
i scoffed a week or two ago when I first heard it described as the UK's biggest corporate scandal, but it certainly doesn't seem so daft now.
Post Office bosses kept insisting their systems were robust.
But they made a concession following pressure from MPs, offering to set up a mediation scheme to deal with what they said was a small number of cases.
The documents reveal the Post Office planned to pay a total of only £1m in "token payments", or compensation, to sub-postmasters as it suppressed evidence of computer bugs in 2014.
Why were hundreds of Post Office workers prosecuted?
But it was a vast underestimation of the eventual cost of the scandal, which is now expected to be more than £1bn.
Details of the Project Sparrow discussions were not disclosed in evidence to sub-postmasters as they challenged the Post Office through the courts in 2017-2019.
"It's been a cover-up from start to finish," said Alan Bates. "That's coming out now. It's undeniable.
"And this is what we've been up against all the way. We've always known they were covering up - it's just been very difficult to find prThe secret plan to sack Second Sight is revealed in the minutes of two Project Sparrow meetings in April 2014.
The minutes were released in heavily redacted form in 2021 after former Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells disclosed the existence of Project Sparrow.
Now the BBC has obtained the unredacted minutes, showing what the Post Office didn't want the public to seeloof," he added.
The Project Sparrow sub-committee was led by Post Office chair Alice Perkins and included chief executive Paula Vennells, alongside the Post Office's most senior internal lawyer, general counsel Chris Aujard, and Richard Callard, a senior civil servant at UK Government Investments, then a division of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.
The unredacted minutes for 9 April 2014 show the sub-committee asking for a paper to be prepared on the role of Second Sight and "options to support them or reduce their role".
Three weeks later, on 30 April 2014, they agree on a plan to bring the investigation of sub-postmasters' cases "within the control of the Post Office", removing Second Sight from its role of investigating sub-postmasters' cases independently.
However, that decision was kept secret from Parliament and the public as the Post Office claimed Second Sight's independent review supported its approach to sub-postmasters' complaints. The Post Office was then seeking to defuse the scandal through a mediation scheme, which excluded many victims from compensation.
Bugs in the system
Nine months before the committee met, Second Sight submitted a report on 8 July 2013 identifying computer bugs that raised doubts over the reliability of Horizon data used to prosecute sub-postmasters.
A week later, on 15 July 2013, the Post Office was warned in formal advice written by its own lawyer Simon Clarke that it was in breach of its legal duties because sub-postmasters who had been prosecuted should have been told about the bugs.
The next day, 16 July 2013, the Post Office board expressed concern that Second Sight's review exposed the business to claims of wrongful convictions.
Yet the Project Sparrow minutes from April 2014 show Paula Vennells, Alice Perkins and the other members discussed closing or speeding up the mediation scheme and planning to pay minimal compensation to sub-postmasters
That followed advice from lawyers Linklaters that they had only "very limited liability in relation to financial redress".
The minutes show the committee asking for a paper to brief them on making "token payments" to sub-postmasters applying to the mediation scheme, trumpeted in public at the time by ministers as a solution to sub-postmasters' complaints.
"The cost of all cases in the scheme going to mediation would be in the region of £1m," the unredacted minutes state.
Members of the committee knew sub-postmasters wouldn't be happy and that there was a "real risk" that "many applicants will remain dissatisfied at the end of the process".
On 30 April 2014, following advice from Chris Aujard, the committee decided not to make any "ex gratia" payments - meaning payments to struggling sub-postmasters to help them while their cases were examined.
They also asked for a paper to be prepared on options for closing or speeding up the mediation scheme.
Second Sight's interim report in 2013 did say that it had found no systemic flaws in the Horizon system. But the word "systemic" had a specific meaning - that no flaws could be found in every single post office branch.
What the Post Office didn't say was that it also made an unwelcome finding, identifying incidents where defects or bugs in the Horizon software "gave rise to 76 branches being affected by incorrect balances or transactions which took some time to identify and correct".
On 17 December 2014, when Post Office Minister Jo Swinson answered a parliamentary debate on the scandal, she pointed to the independent role of Second Sight.
The following year, in March 2015, as it prepared to submit its full report, 11 months after the decision had been taken, Second Sight's contract was terminated and the Post Office brought investigation of the sub-postmasters' cases in-house.
Alice Perkins and Paula Vennells didn't respond to requests for comment.
Linklaters also did not comment.
Chris Aujard and Richard Callard said through public relations advisers that they would not comment while the inquiry was ongoing.
A representative of the government at UK Government Investments declined to comment.
A Post Office spokesperson said: "We never discuss individuals and it would be inappropriate to comment on allegations being made outside of the Inquiry, whose role it is to consider all of the evidence on the issues it is examining and independently reach conclusions.
"We fully share the Public Inquiry's aims to get to the truth of what happened in the past and accountability."
I
Serious jail time is needed for those who clearly took part in the cover up.
I was just going to write the same thing myself
That Paula woman gotta do 12 years at least
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