Manager situation and the constant changing over recent years

[Dembe]

Nobody seems to care that this is also Bulut's first season in this most difficult of all leagues.

Most supporters would have been delighted to be where we are at the moment. We had a transfer embargo to start with and I'm just guessing that he didn't get exactly what he wanted in January. But the players he signed seem to be bedding in now.

There was a period when this board had many contributors, including the lugubrious TOBW, lamenting that we couldn't score from set pieces. Now we can, they are lamenting that we can't score from open play.

Give him a contract and see what he can do.

We don't need money to be able to play good football. I agree we've been in a worse position than most with the embargo, but when you're bringing in the frees you can still check if they can pass the ball 12 yards.

I agree he's done well to get us to mid table, I just don't like the way he plays the game and I think any talent we may have at the club, that its already difficult for them to step up, its harder when you play a completely different style to the seniors..

[Father Dougal]

Ipswich, Plymouth, 3rd tier teams for years, a place where you can build, develop and tinker with a squad of players without fear of too much damage.

That's actually a really interesting point I've never thought about before.

I wonder if applies to other oft cited examples such as swansea Luton Bournemouth and Brentford? That a large part of their rebuild was actually done outside the top 2 divisions?

Relegation frightens me as I'm fairly sure we wouldn't get back up as bigger clubs than us have struggled. However for those after this change in style I'd say relegation is the most likely way it would eventually happen.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Nobody seems to care that this is also Bulut's first season in this most difficult of all leagues.

Most supporters would have been delighted to be where we are at the moment. We had a transfer embargo to start with and I'm just guessing that he didn't get exactly what he wanted in January. But the players he signed seem to be bedding in now.

There was a period when this board had many contributors, including the lugubrious TOBW, lamenting that we couldn't score from set pieces. Now we can, they are lamenting that we can't score from open play.

Give him a contract and see what he can do.

Absolutely

[Eric the Half a Bee]

We don't need money to be able to play good football. I agree we've been in a worse position than most with the embargo, but when you're bringing in the frees you can still check if they can pass the ball 12 yards.

I agree he's done well to get us to mid table, I just don't like the way he plays the game and I think any talent we may have at the club, that its already difficult for them to step up, its harder when you play a completely different style to the seniors..

100%.

That's why I wonder if Tan and the board have a method of play they think will bring success. Successive managers have tried it. Boring, yes, successful, could be but needs more than that.

[Father Dougal]

100%.

That's why I wonder if Tan and the board have a method of play they think will bring success. Successive managers have tried it. Boring, yes, successful, could be but needs more than that.

I doubt that much thought goes into it.

These guys had this fantastic run of appointing managers-

ole, Slade, trollope, Warnock (the exception) Harris, mad mick, mad morison, hudson........

I just hope not much thought went into that lot! If that's them, really trying then........

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I doubt that much thought goes into it.

These guys had this fantastic run of appointing managers-

ole, Slade, trollope, Warnock (the exception) Harris, mad mick, mad morison, hudson........

I just hope not much thought went into that lot! If that's them, really trying then........

You have a point. In fact, has any thought gone into our managerial appointments?

[the other bob wilson]

Nobody seems to care that this is also Bulut's first season in this most difficult of all leagues.

Most supporters would have been delighted to be where we are at the moment. We had a transfer embargo to start with and I'm just guessing that he didn't get exactly what he wanted in January. But the players he signed seem to be bedding in now.

There was a period when this board had many contributors, including the lugubrious TOBW, lamenting that we couldn't score from set pieces. Now we can, they are lamenting that we can't score from open play.

Give him a contract and see what he can do.

And why shouldn't we lament it? Off the top of my head, we scored two goals from crosses from free kicks and corners last season and I think Saturday's set piece goal means we've scored nineteen of them this time around. Last season we scored forty one times from forty six games while conceding fifty eight and, at the moment, we've scored forty from thirty five while conceding forty eight. If we continue scoring and conceding at our current rate for the rest of the season we'll end up scoring fifty three and conceding sixty three.

So, for all of the talk of our defensively minded manager having improved our defence, we're on course to have a worse goals against record this season compared to last season. To counter that, we're well on the way to comfortably exceeding last season's goalscoring figure. However, when you consider that, with eleven games left, we've already scored seventeen more set piece goals than we did last season, the truth is that our improved goalscoring figure is on course to be entirely down to us being so much better at scoring from free kicks and corners. In fact, there is every chance on the evidence we have at the moment that the 23/24 side will end up with less goals scored from open play than last season's team which only avoided the drop because of Reading's points deduction.

Last season's team also were useless from the penalty spot, but at least they were getting the players into the box to draw the fouls and handballs from the opposition. Take away the cup tie and at Sheffield (Bulut allows the team to play a different style of football in cup games) and we're not getting the penalties this season that we did last time around.

Let's not forget either that, despite the transfer embargo for the summer window, Bulut has had the sixth best wages budget in the Championship to work with according to our Chairman. I'm dubious about that claim, but, you only have to look at the calibre of player we brought in during the summer window to think that the wage budget for 23/24 is significantly bigger than the one for 22/23.

So, on what is almost certainly a bigger wages budget, Bulut has overseen what looks like being a much higher finishing position than last season, despite the fact that we're conceding more goals and are even less creative from open play than last season's team - he's got a lot to be grateful about for all of those extra set piece goals.

As I said a few weeks back, I'm not calling for Bulut to be sacked, but if Tan decided to get rid of him at the end of the season, I wouldn't be too bothered.

[olderblue]

And why shouldn't we lament it? Off the top of my head, we scored two goals from crosses from free kicks and corners last season and I think Saturday's set piece goal means we've scored nineteen of them this time around. Last season we scored forty one times from forty six games while conceding fifty eight and, at the moment, we've scored forty from thirty five while conceding forty eight. If we continue scoring and conceding at our current rate for the rest of the season we'll end up scoring fifty three and conceding sixty three.

So, for all of the talk of our defensively minded manager having improved our defence, we're on course to have a worse goals against record this season compared to last season. To counter that, we're well on the way to comfortably exceeding last season's goalscoring figure. However, when you consider that, with eleven games left, we've already scored seventeen more set piece goals than we did last season, the truth is that our improved goalscoring figure is on course to be entirely down to us being so much better at scoring from free kicks and corners. In fact, there is every chance on the evidence we have at the moment that the 23/24 side will end up with less goals scored from open play than last season's team which only avoided the drop because of Reading's points deduction.

Last season's team also were useless from the penalty spot, but at least they were getting the players into the box to draw the fouls and handballs from the opposition. Take away the cup tie and at Sheffield (Bulut allows the team to play a different style of football in cup games) and we're not getting the penalties this season that we did last time around.

Let's not forget either that, despite the transfer embargo for the summer window, Bulut has had the sixth best wages budget in the Championship to work with according to our Chairman. I'm dubious about that claim, but, you only have to look at the calibre of player we brought in during the summer window to think that the wage budget for 23/24 is significantly bigger than the one for 22/23.

So, on what is almost certainly a bigger wages budget, Bulut has overseen what looks like being a much higher finishing position than last season, despite the fact that we're conceding more goals and are even less creative from open play than last season's team - he's got a lot to be grateful about for all of those extra set piece goals.

As I said a few weeks back, I'm not calling for Bulut to be sacked, but if Tan decided to get rid of him at the end of the season, I wouldn't be too bothered.

With ODowda returning to fitness and Grant available, surely this would be the time to have a left footed winger on the left and a right footed winger on the right?

The fact that Bowler can’t beat a defender surely hasn’t been missed by the coaching staff?

If the reason for playing them, previously was that they were able to cut inside and score from open play, then surely the coaching staff can see that, it hasn’t worked out well so far!

If we do manage to go in front tonight, the nonsense of playing almost everyone behind the ball has to stop as well!

Bulut has got us in the top half, which is an obvious improvement, but can he introduce some excitement into play?

When Wintle comes off the bench, can’t he instruct him to face the Ninian stand or Grandstand, at least that way he’s more likely to make a forward pass

[Eric the Half a Bee]

And why shouldn't we lament it? Off the top of my head, we scored two goals from crosses from free kicks and corners last season and I think Saturday's set piece goal means we've scored nineteen of them this time around. Last season we scored forty one times from forty six games while conceding fifty eight and, at the moment, we've scored forty from thirty five while conceding forty eight. If we continue scoring and conceding at our current rate for the rest of the season we'll end up scoring fifty three and conceding sixty three.

So, for all of the talk of our defensively minded manager having improved our defence, we're on course to have a worse goals against record this season compared to last season. To counter that, we're well on the way to comfortably exceeding last season's goalscoring figure. However, when you consider that, with eleven games left, we've already scored seventeen more set piece goals than we did last season, the truth is that our improved goalscoring figure is on course to be entirely down to us being so much better at scoring from free kicks and corners. In fact, there is every chance on the evidence we have at the moment that the 23/24 side will end up with less goals scored from open play than last season's team which only avoided the drop because of Reading's points deduction.

Last season's team also were useless from the penalty spot, but at least they were getting the players into the box to draw the fouls and handballs from the opposition. Take away the cup tie and at Sheffield (Bulut allows the team to play a different style of football in cup games) and we're not getting the penalties this season that we did last time around.

Let's not forget either that, despite the transfer embargo for the summer window, Bulut has had the sixth best wages budget in the Championship to work with according to our Chairman. I'm dubious about that claim, but, you only have to look at the calibre of player we brought in during the summer window to think that the wage budget for 23/24 is significantly bigger than the one for 22/23.

So, on what is almost certainly a bigger wages budget, Bulut has overseen what looks like being a much higher finishing position than last season, despite the fact that we're conceding more goals and are even less creative from open play than last season's team - he's got a lot to be grateful about for all of those extra set piece goals.

As I said a few weeks back, I'm not calling for Bulut to be sacked, but if Tan decided to get rid of him at the end of the season, I wouldn't be too bothered.

Stats (in black and white):

Attempts from open play (per game):

2023/24: 7.3
2022/23: 8.1
2021/22: 6.5

Attempts from set pieces (per game):

2023/24: 2.9
2022/23: 3.1
2021/22: 4.1

Overall attempts on goal (per game):

2023/24: 10.5
2022/23: 11.7
2021/22: 11.1

Goals per number of attempts from open play:

2023/24: 14.9
2022/23: 13.4
2021/22: 10.4

Goals per number of attempts from set pieces:

2023/24: 5.7
2022/23: 17.6
2021/22: 12.6

Games per goal from open play (average):

2023/24: 2.06
2022/23: 1.64
2021/22: 1.59

The stats suggest that we are less creative than in our previous two seasons, but we have found a way of converting an unusually high percentage of the chances we create from set pieces.

Even without Ramsey and O'Dowda, the stats make pretty grim reading and suggests that

a) our style of attacking play
b) our attacking players

aren't up to what they have been over the previous two seasons. Now, I presume the club didn't expect a full season from Rambo. If they did, god help us all, and that's nothing against Ramsey, but we have all prayed he'd stay as injury free as possible. So, the combination of manager and players brought in have done nothing to improve us as an attacking force, other than an ability to convert set pieces.

Some might not care about that at all, as long as we're competitive and win enough to have a better season than last, must be an improvement. But take set pieces out of the equation, we're a worse attacking unit than we've had for many a season. Even Warnock's sides were better at scoring from open play, even in the Premier League.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Unless some wheeler dealer or bright young thing comes along and is given big cash then bulut ...ie championship safety .....is as good as it gets ?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Unless some wheeler dealer or bright young thing comes along and is given big cash then bulut ...ie championship safety .....is as good as it gets ?

Why does it have to be about big cash? Yes, I know teams that come down have parachute payments and that gives them an advantage, but that doesn't automatically rule all the other sides out. In fact, quite often there are sides that come down that struggle, despite the extra money. Ipswich have done remarkably this season in their first season back.

There is still the opportunity for teams that are run well, have a plan etc to do well in the Championship.

[PontBlue]

Unless some wheeler dealer or bright young thing comes along and is given big cash then bulut ...ie championship safety .....is as good as it gets ?

I'd suggest neither Keiran McKenna or Rob Edwards had massive budgets to work with and Ipswich and Luton acheived much more than Championship Safety. The same could have been said of Coventry for the previous few seasons.

[Dembe]

You have a point. In fact, has any thought gone into our managerial appointments?

It's just frustrating when you see other teams with a plan. Luton probably went up too fast but if they come down they'll be in. better shape for it. There are loads of things you can read on them online about the plan they had to rise up from the conference.
Brentford nipped away for years, went up and stayed up, Bournemouth have stayed up with a tiny stadium etc etc.

Will someone at the club come out and tell us what the **** is going on?

* Plan to introduce more youth players to the first team squad and eventually starting 11 over the next few seasons
* Improve the quality of the first team playing squad over the next 3 transfer windows
* Implement an overall playing identity at the club from grassroots to the first team
* Overhaul of the coaches and scouts
* Tell us why the **** we should care if they don't.

Thousands of people give up their spare time and spend their own money and not one of us has a ****ing clue what is going on at the club, what direction its taking, what the **** its short term and long term goals are? We keep being told Tan pumps in millions (true) and we are just expected to be grateful for it? While the club is seemingly floating around rudderless.. that's the impression I get anyway.

[Dembe]

Unless some wheeler dealer or bright young thing comes along and is given big cash then bulut ...ie championship safety .....is as good as it gets ?

A wheeler dealer wouldn't need big cash, by nature of being as wheeler dealer. Go make some post asking what car insurance you ought to get next or something, because you are clueless.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

A wheeler dealer wouldn't need big cash, by nature of being as wheeler dealer. Go make some post asking what car insurance you ought to get next or something, because you are clueless.

Wheeler dealer OR bright young thing with cash

It's either or

Comprende?

I am fully comp thanks

[Dembe]

Wheeler dealer OR bright young thing with cash

It's either or

Comprende?

I am fully comp thanks

You have a habit of ruining these threads wit your presence, we all know your opinion, it hasn't changed since you ran into m&s in 1984

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You have a habit of ruining these threads wit your presence, we all know your opinion, it hasn't changed since you ran into m&s in 1984

I have made a perfectly reasonable remark that is with regard to the thread

It's you who have made an issue of it

[WJ99mobile]

3 Seasons? More like 7 or 8 seasons..OGS was the last manager to try and play attractive football, look what happened there.

It was shocking but i'd still give him another go ahead of Bulut

It was at least interesting.

[WJ99mobile]

The fact that Bowler can’t beat a defender surely hasn’t been missed by the coaching staff?

If the reason for playing them, previously was that they were able to cut inside and score from open play, then surely the coaching staff can see that, it hasn’t worked out well so far!

I think Bowlers critisism is unfair on this board - He's a left footed player so has to cut inside which is being defended time after time by the opposition by showing him to the touchline and they often put 2 players on him.

He then reverts to an outside of the foot pass but the opposition already have that space closed down.

It looks bad for Bowler but I don't understand what else he's supposed to do as his natural outlets if played on his unnatural side are camped in the centre circle as we are stuck with 2 DMs every game.

[Dembe]

I have made a perfectly reasonable remark that is with regard to the thread

It's you who have made an issue of it

you come on these threads and don't really offer any discussion, you linger around hoping to engage with someone. You post the same old things over and over, in some WUM attempt, it goes unnoticed by most but a few have also cottoned on to the tactic.

You are not wet behind the ears, you know exactly what it is you are doing.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

you come on these threads and don't really offer any discussion, you linger around hoping to engage with someone. You post the same old things over and over, in some WUM attempt, it goes unnoticed by most but a few have also cottoned on to the tactic.

You are not wet behind the ears, you know exactly what it is you are doing.

I am not doing anything other than discuss the manager situation in this thread

[Eric the Half a Bee]

It's just frustrating when you see other teams with a plan. Luton probably went up too fast but if they come down they'll be in. better shape for it. There are loads of things you can read on them online about the plan they had to rise up from the conference.
Brentford nipped away for years, went up and stayed up, Bournemouth have stayed up with a tiny stadium etc etc.

Will someone at the club come out and tell us what the **** is going on?

* Plan to introduce more youth players to the first team squad and eventually starting 11 over the next few seasons
* Improve the quality of the first team playing squad over the next 3 transfer windows
* Implement an overall playing identity at the club from grassroots to the first team
* Overhaul of the coaches and scouts
* Tell us why the **** we should care if they don't.

Thousands of people give up their spare time and spend their own money and not one of us has a ****ing clue what is going on at the club, what direction its taking, what the **** its short term and long term goals are? We keep being told Tan pumps in millions (true) and we are just expected to be grateful for it? While the club is seemingly floating around rudderless.. that's the impression I get anyway.

I seem to have missed this, apologies.

That sums up my feelings almost to a tee.

How often do we get players in and terminate their contracts? Far, far too often.
How often do we get young talent in and sell them at a profit? We don't.
How often do academy players seemlessly move into the first team? They don't, because the football is totally different. Even within the club there is no consistency. Who oversees all of this? Does anyone?
How often have players left us and we've thought they were a better player than when they arrived?

You're right about Tan pumping all this money into the club, but this is where he's a complete arse. If I was losing that amount of money, I'd be asking why and learning what I needed to do to help stop this from people in the game who know the game. He doesn't learn, he doesn't want advice as he wants to do it his own way, the way that is killing his wallet, and our club.

[Dembe]

I seem to have missed this, apologies.

That sums up my feelings almost to a tee.

How often do we get players in and terminate their contracts? Far, far too often.
How often do we get young talent in and sell them at a profit? We don't.
How often do academy players seemlessly move into the first team? They don't, because the football is totally different. Even within the club there is no consistency. Who oversees all of this? Does anyone?
How often have players left us and we've thought they were a better player than when they arrived?

You're right about Tan pumping all this money into the club, but this is where he's a complete arse. If I was losing that amount of money, I'd be asking why and learning what I needed to do to help stop this from people in the game who know the game. He doesn't learn, he doesn't want advice as he wants to do it his own way, the way that is killing his wallet, and our club.

As a father yourself, can you imagine doing absolutely **** all for your kid while at the same time telling close family and relatives how wonderful you are because you throw them some CSA? Ok probably a terrible analogy after reading it out once typed..but you get the picture. We are basically an unparented kid running around the big city with daddy's credit card, what could possibly go wrong with no guidance and advice...

I've missed a few decent posts by others as well to be fair, few good points made by older blue and Bob, decent discussion.

The club needs a reset. It doesnt necessary need to involve Tan leaving, but it would be nice if he could start to take a hands on approach and sort this mess out. If he doesnt trust others to oversee, like a DoF, could he at least talk to other club owners? Salman and the car salesman aren't helping us, if anything id start by binning off the pair of them.

[Nobody's Rep]

I think Bowlers critisism is unfair on this board - He's a left footed player so has to cut inside which is being defended time after time by the opposition by showing him to the touchline and they often put 2 players on him.

He then reverts to an outside of the foot pass but the opposition already have that space closed down.

It looks bad for Bowler but I don't understand what else he's supposed to do as his natural outlets if played on his unnatural side are camped in the centre circle as we are stuck with 2 DMs every game.

My issue with bowler isn't the attacking element of his game but he is a bit of coward off the ball - he doesn't challenge for the ball and doesn't even make a nuisance of himself to make it more difficult - I am fed up of him bottling things and not from a defensive point today view but when he is in the attacking third without the ball - colwill suffers from the same disease but has worked on this but still reverts to type on occasions

[2b2bdoo]

I seen on X that we have already beat our points tally from last year and already equalled our goals scored from last year. Considering the embargo over the summer I don’t think that’s to bad.