2022-23 Accounts now published

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

£11m loss, down from £29m the previous year.
https://find-and-update.company-info...filing-history

[the other bob wilson]

Who's the director with significant influence in Tormen Finance who it would appear have loaned us £20 million at 9 per cent? I would have assumed it was Mehmet Dalman, but it does say it's a director not the Chairman.

Looks like he wage bill fell by just over £6 million.

[jon1959]

Who's the director with significant influence in Tormen Finance who it would appear have loaned us £20 million at 9 per cent? I would have assumed it was Mehmet Dalman, but it does say it's a director not the Chairman.

Looks like he wage bill fell by just over £6 million.

Keith's commentary on the published accounts from last year says:

The main liabilities in the May 2022 balance sheet were amounts of £73m due to Vincent Tan and his family and £20.8m due to Tormen Finance, a company in which Mehmet Dalman has a significant interest – this loan carries interest at 9%.

http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/new...96/index.shtml

I have seen the 'significant interest' phrase used several times to describe the relationship between Dalman and Tormen Finance - but don't really know what it means - whether he owns Tormen or has a major financial stake in it....?

[Trigger]

Keith's commentary on the published accounts from last year says:

The main liabilities in the May 2022 balance sheet were amounts of £73m due to Vincent Tan and his family and £20.8m due to Tormen Finance, a company in which Mehmet Dalman has a significant interest – this loan carries interest at 9%.

http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/new...96/index.shtml

I have seen the 'significant interest' phrase used several times to describe the relationship between Dalman and Tormen Finance - but don't really know what it means - whether he owns Tormen or has a major financial stake in it....?

Listed as a beneficial owner on gov site.At least 25% of shares.

I think we have been lending from them for years.

[jon1959]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68489496

[Former Labour leader]

Perhaps most interesting is that a deal to lease the new training ground at Miskin is close to be signed. Shows a real commitment by VT and the club.

[TWGL1]

Who's the director with significant influence in Tormen Finance who it would appear have loaned us £20 million at 9 per cent? I would have assumed it was Mehmet Dalman, but it does say it's a director not the Chairman.

Looks like he wage bill fell by just over £6 million.

The wage bill fell by £8m to £22m and according to the BBC article .

it’s £14m this year, which somehow makes the claim that we are the 6th largest wage payer in the division dubious at best , which a few people have already pointed out.

[Blueboo2]

Mehmet Dalman is the major shareholder of Torman Finance (most probably the only shareholder) which is registered in the Virgin Islands.

The link below from the Companies House website shows him as the only major shareholder

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/d...06c26c167a697c

[Cleve van Leef]

Thank you


And I know up to this current day it’s up to £100 mill our debt.

So 14-15 years later we are NO where near debt free??


We are now in debt to 3 different parties. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[xsnaggle]

Any reference to the payout from the insurance company?

[jon1959]

Any reference to the payout from the insurance company?

The out of court settlement for professional negligence?

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Any reference to the payout from the insurance company?

That was in September 2023 so will be in the next accounting period. (These ones only go up to the end of May 23)

[bluesp]

Perhaps most interesting is that a deal to lease the new training ground at Miskin is close to be signed. Shows a real commitment by VT and the club.

Miskin?? Not sure there’s much room here for that! Probably Hensol way?

[the other bob wilson]

The wage bill fell by £8m to £22m and according to the BBC article .

it’s £14m this year, which somehow makes the claim that we are the 6th largest wage payer in the division dubious at best , which a few people have already pointed out.

Yes, but the article says it was £14 million before the arrival of Ramsey and others - I feel our wage bill is quite a big bigger than it was last season, but I can’t see it’s to the extent that we’re the sixth biggest payers.

[BLUEAWAY TOO]

Two other key numbers
Sponsorship up by over £5m - where has that come from? Well done for achieving it.
Over £7m spent on players

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Two other key numbers
Sponsorship up by over £5m - where has that come from? Well done for achieving it.
Over £7m spent on players

Doesn't Tan pay for the Malaysian sponsorship?

[BLUEAWAY TOO]

I guess he does, not that he would get any credit for it!

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I guess he does, not that he would get any credit for it!

One way around FFP.

[BLUEAWAY TOO]

Indeed

[Joe Gillis]

Debt free in 5 years. How many years ago was that?

[dml1954]

Thank you


And I know up to this current day it’s up to £100 mill our debt.

So 14-15 years later we are NO where near debt free??


We are now in debt to 3 different parties. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

More of Tans debt converted to equity in the accounts. The clubs debt to him reduced to £65m from around £100m is what I read. Overall debt reduced during the year as well. Tan should be commended for this in very difficult financial times. Not sure how that fits in with what you said.

[tforturton]

£11m loss, down from £29m the previous year.

If I'm reading this right, we lost £29m in 21-22, and then £11m in 22-23. So in two years, we lost £40m.
Doesn't that breach the League's FFP limits? Isn't the limit £39m over three years?
Does that mean we have to make £1m profit next year? Anyone know?

[JumpersforGoalposts]

If I'm reading this right, we lost £29m in 21-22, and then £11m in 22-23. So in two years, we lost £40m.
Doesn't that breach the League's FFP limits? Isn't the limit £39m over three years?
Does that mean we have to make £1m profit next year? Anyone know?

£40million loss before any "permitted development" spending, e.g. investment in academy and training infrastructure.
The limit is £39million over a 3 year period excluding "permitted development" spending, but in essence you are correct that the 2024 forecast included in the current FFP submission probably needs to be around break even.

[Carl Dale's Mole]

The Profitability and Sustainability rules don't feel very sustainable.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

I've been looking to see which other championship clubs have released their accounts for 2022-23 so far and how their losses compare:

Southampton £87m
Norwich 27.2
Bristol City 22.2
QPR 20.3
Preston 14.4
Stoke 11.3
Cardiff City 11
Sheffield Wednesday 6.5
Middlesbrough 6.4
Hull 5.2
Coventry 4.9
Plymouth 3.4
Rotherham 1.1

Watford made a £24m
profit