40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Yeah, but it’s all Hamas’ fault, apparently

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Not a lie at all. You made exactly the claim I said in a post last year. (Your response avoids the point).

It left me wondering about your Taliban-style Christianity and your fundamentalist (another thread, I know) Christian Zionism that puts you in lockstep with Israeli fascists and the racist far right of MAGA Republicans.

It was the chicken and egg question. Is your belief system a product of your politics, or do your political positions come from your belief system?

Either way it is indefensible.

It doesn't matter if all you do with what is in your head is shout at traffic lights. But you claim to be very active across a lot of social media peddling these views. Whilst some may be grateful for being battered over the head with biblical quotes, it is the real life consequences of what you preach that counts. At this time the consequences are mass murder (over 70% of the 40,000+ deaths are women and children), displacement, pain, starvation and terror.

Jon, another excellent post with considered argument and demonstrating remarkable patience. I'm beginning to ask a few questions here though. I'd be interested in yours and others take on this. I'm not sure I possess the f*cking resolve patience or will to continue.

In the complex tapestry of global religious and political discussion, the challenge of engaging with individuals holding extreme, fundamentalist views, particularly those who justify violence through religious prophecies, is a futile one. Surely?

For me, this question becomes especially pertinent when discussing extremists who cite prophecies as justifications for genocide, ethnic cleansing, starvation, and other atrocities in the 21st century. It is essential to acknowledge that these positions starkly contrast with the fundamental teachings of Jesus, who preached love, compassion, and peace. Jesus, a Jew, taught principles that are diametrically opposed to any form of violence or hatred. Additionally, the ideology of Zionism, with its political and territorial ambitions, often rejects the New Testament, creating a further disconnect from the Christian messages of love and reconciliation.

But in the same way, there are, in some people's eyes, real and true Cardiff City supporters. It seems that in truthpaste's world, this applies to Christians too.

The dialogue with individuals holding such extremist beliefs presents a considerable challenge (under-f*cking-statement). On one hand, it is tempting to argue that reason and evidence-based dialogue can bridge divides and soften hardline stances. On the other hand, when beliefs are deeply entrenched and supported by a conviction in divine sanction, the scope for productive dialogue narrows significantly.

Referencing religious prophecy to justify severe human rights violations raises the question: are we witnessing not just a refusal to engage in meaningful discussion but potentially a form of trolling or even geopolitical destabilisation?

The use of such conflicts by extremists to further their narratives, irrespective of the human cost, points to a deep-seated fanaticism.

When engaging in discussions, surely it is crucial to distinguish between faith and the misuse of religious texts to support inhumane agendas. The endgame of dialogues with individuals who adopt fanatical religious beliefs to justify violence poses a significant challenge.

Doesn't this force us to consider whether certain forms of engagement, rather than fostering understanding, might inadvertently legitimise or embolden extremist viewpoints?

In summary. Are we wasting our f*cking time?

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sadly, yes. I think we are.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Yeah, but it’s all Hamas’ fault, apparently

Nobody in this discussion has said that, so if you are going to weigh in then stick to the facts.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Jon, another excellent post with considered argument and demonstrating remarkable patience. I'm beginning to ask a few questions here though. I'd be interested in yours and others take on this. I'm not sure I possess the f*cking resolve patience or will to continue.

In the complex tapestry of global religious and political discussion, the challenge of engaging with individuals holding extreme, fundamentalist views, particularly those who justify violence through religious prophecies, is a futile one. Surely?

For me, this question becomes especially pertinent when discussing extremists who cite prophecies as justifications for genocide, ethnic cleansing, starvation, and other atrocities in the 21st century. It is essential to acknowledge that these positions starkly contrast with the fundamental teachings of Jesus, who preached love, compassion, and peace. Jesus, a Jew, taught principles that are diametrically opposed to any form of violence or hatred. Additionally, the ideology of Zionism, with its political and territorial ambitions, often rejects the New Testament, creating a further disconnect from the Christian messages of love and reconciliation.

But in the same way, there are, in some people's eyes, real and true Cardiff City supporters. It seems that in truthpaste's world, this applies to Christians too.

The dialogue with individuals holding such extremist beliefs presents a considerable challenge (under-f*cking-statement). On one hand, it is tempting to argue that reason and evidence-based dialogue can bridge divides and soften hardline stances. On the other hand, when beliefs are deeply entrenched and supported by a conviction in divine sanction, the scope for productive dialogue narrows significantly.

Referencing religious prophecy to justify severe human rights violations raises the question: are we witnessing not just a refusal to engage in meaningful discussion but potentially a form of trolling or even geopolitical destabilisation?

The use of such conflicts by extremists to further their narratives, irrespective of the human cost, points to a deep-seated fanaticism.

When engaging in discussions, surely it is crucial to distinguish between faith and the misuse of religious texts to support inhumane agendas. The endgame of dialogues with individuals who adopt fanatical religious beliefs to justify violence poses a significant challenge.

Doesn't this force us to consider whether certain forms of engagement, rather than fostering understanding, might inadvertently legitimise or embolden extremist viewpoints?

In summary. Are we wasting our f*cking time?

The main disconnection is you can (Jon-like) spout the bile re the texts, but you are not willing to examine any evidence for their validity or otherwise, so all we are left with is a drive-thru look at an issue and jumping to a quickest convenient and popular majority viewpoint whilst trashing anyone who thinks differently.
If you can't ask *questions to understand (which some actually now have) where other people are coming from, then you are not really engaging the discussion.

* For example I asked Jon to support his world-view and he's typed loads of words since I asked but is unable to address why he believes what he believes; so all he is left with is bile.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Thanks for that. So, that all comes from the Old Testament. But the Jews then went on to reject Jesus as the son of God, which leads us to the New Testament, so why do you appear to care so much for Jews over Muslims?

I'll try and keep this as concise as possible as there are many aspects to this, and I will attempt to keep it jargon free too:-

Before Abraham (who became the first Jew) met with Almighty God his family faith involved praying to a moon god a number of times per day; after he had met the God of the Bible he was promised that his seed would become a nation that would bless the entire world; the key way this would happen would be because one of his offspring (some 2000 years later) would be born (on His mother's side, Mary) in Bethlehem; the Lord Jesus Christ of course. Jesus later explained that only via His death and resurrection were individuals (by trusting in Him) able to get right with God and have an eternal home in Heaven, free from death, sorrow and pain.

Now Abraham like many of us was an impatient guy and decided he'd waited long enough for Sarah his wife to produce this son of promise, so he slept with his maidservent and produced a son, Ishmael. Later on God showed that He could be trusted and Sarah gave birth to Isaac who later had a son Jacob. God changed Jacob's name to Israel and he produced 12 sons who individually seeded each tribe of Israel right down to the present day. In other words, Jacob's son Judah, produced the Tribe of Judah and Mary was one of Judah's descendants therefore Christ was born into that Tribe (which was his human heritage); his Father being God, hence the miracle of the virgin birth.

Jesus, as you will know is the One all Christian's believe in and the One they know will return to rule on Earth in a coming day; you may remember saying a section of the Lord's prayer - "....thy kingdom come, they will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven...".

So as you can see, the 'King of the Jews' is essentially and eternally connected to Christians for ever.

But that does leave one big question, what about that other son, Ishmael? Well Ishmael didn't follow the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he followed the family religion, and worshipped the moon god, praying a number of times a day to that same god.
Therefore it is no mystery that every Mosque has a moon visible on the outside of the building. I've included an image of the one in Cardiff Bay, see what is placed at the highest point....!

There's a lot more to add to this including why the Jews will be key in the God's Plans in the near future (having been set aside to allow the Church to be God's 'mouthpiece' since 30AD); so if you have more questions then I'd be happy to add the details in the areas that you'd like more information on. But also bear this in mind, I haven't just picked a religious book off the shelf, I've examined thousands of claims in the Bible over the last 45 years and realised that ultimately it's content couldn't have possibly only come from the 40 human authors, it must have originated OUTSIDE our time and space.

p08y503v.jpg

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

The main disconnection is you can (Jon-like) spout the bile re the texts, but you are not willing to examine any evidence for their validity or otherwise, so all we are left with is a drive-thru look at an issue and jumping to a quickest convenient and popular majority viewpoint whilst trashing anyone who thinks differently.
If you can't ask *questions to understand (which some actually now have) where other people are coming from, then you are not really engaging the discussion.

* For example I asked Jon to support his world-view and he's typed loads of words since I asked but is unable to address why he believes what he believes; so all he is left with is bile.

Bile?! Only in your head. Thanks for confirming just how fanatical and extremist dangerous troll you are. This will be the last time I feed you.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Bile?! Only in your head. Thanks for confirming just how fanatical and extremist dangerous troll you are. This will be the last time I feed you.

I don't eat fast food. So nothing lost.

Well done on setting up the God thread and being honest enough look for answers.
Most people start by spitting blood so no worries.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Back with the Crisis:

This REPORT is from early this morning by CNN

Devastation in Gaza as Israel wages war on Hamas

President Joe Biden said Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries are “prepared to fully recognize Israel” during remarks at an off-camera fundraiser Thursday night, according to reporters in the room.

Biden repeated calls for a “post-Gaza plan” for Israel, including “a train to a two-state solution.”

The remarks reflect Biden’s increased willingness to publicly call for Israel to increase efforts to protect Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

"I won't go into detail now. But look, I've been working with the Saudis and with all the other Arab countries, including Egypt and Jordan and Qatar. They're prepared to fully recognize Israel, fully recognize Israel for the first time,” Biden said, according to reports from journalists in the room.
“But there has to be a post-Gaza plan, and there has to be a train to a two-state solution, it doesn't have to occur today, but there has to be a progression, and I think we can do that,” Biden said.

Arab states offered to recognize Israel in 2002 in exchange for a Palestinian state in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Gaza, with East Jerusalem as its capital. Israel rejected the proposal then.

The fundraiser, which featured Biden in conversation with former presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, was interrupted at least four times by protesters, with at least three calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

“That's alright. Let them go. There's a lot of people who are very, very — there are too many innocent victims, Israeli and Palestinian. We've got to get more food and medicine, supplies in to the Palestinians,” Biden said, according to reports.
“But we can't forget, Israel is in a position where its very existence is at stake. You have to have all those people. They weren't killed. They were massacred. They were massacred.”

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

The main disconnection is you can (Jon-like) spout the bile re the texts, but you are not willing to examine any evidence for their validity or otherwise, so all we are left with is a drive-thru look at an issue and jumping to a quickest convenient and popular majority viewpoint whilst trashing anyone who thinks differently.
If you can't ask *questions to understand (which some actually now have) where other people are coming from, then you are not really engaging the discussion.

* For example I asked Jon to support his world-view and he's typed loads of words since I asked but is unable to address why he believes what he believes; so all he is left with is bile.

You have confused 'bile' with disgust - again.

As to 'supporting' my world view, I have no intention of getting involved in your circular arguments and general trolling. My world view - my view of the physical world, and the social and political systems and ideas that have emerged from human consciousness against that natural backdrop - have formed over a lifetime of observation, study and argument. I assume that is true for most of us.

[jeepster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You have confused 'bile' with disgust - again.

As to 'supporting' my world view, I have no intention of getting involved in your circular arguments and general trolling. My world view - my view of the physical world, and the social and political systems and ideas that have emerged from human consciousness against that natural backdrop - have formed over a lifetime of observation, study and argument. I assume that is true for most of us.

What i have noticed with him,he does try to belittle or put any one down who does not beleive his faith.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[QUOTE=jon1959;5500388]You have confused 'bile' with disgust - again.

As to 'supporting' my world view, I have no intention of getting involved in your circular arguments and general trolling. My world view - my view of the physical world, and the social and political systems and ideas that have emerged from human consciousness against that natural backdrop - have formed over a lifetime of observation, study and argument. I assume that is true for most of us.[/QUOTE

I guess it would be more appropriate to discuss what a world view is on the new 'God' thread.

We both obviously have a very different view of life, death and purpose, however that doesn't mean we have to constantly communicate in acidic tones and there's no reason why we can't learn things from each other even when on many things we will be polar opposites.

So apart from me having tried and tested views (as you do) that I hold very firmly, what do you find to be digusting re what I have said on this or any other subject?

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

What i have noticed with him,he does try to belittle or put any one down who does not beleive his faith.

What I do ask are questions of those who hold different views. After all they pepper me with questions as you would expect.
If those people don't know why they beieve what they believe then they may feel belittled, but that has nothing to do with me?

[jeepster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

What I do ask are questions of those who hold different views. After all they pepper me with questions as you would expect.
If those people don't know why they beieve what they believe then they may feel belittled, but that has nothing to do with me?

Does not make sense.
How can you believe in something but dont know why.

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Al Jazerra banned from broadcasting from Israel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68708984