Sala case

[jon1959]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-100m-29038322

[xsnaggle]

Does the responsibility on that not come down to Sala? If he turns down our flight and chooses to arrange one of his own accord with McKay, what difference does it make that he was acting on behalf of Nantes on this particular deal?

I’m struggling to see our case and think it epitomises the sad state of football that we are still pursuing this

Maybe that's why you're not the solicitor for the club!

[bobh]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-100m-29038322

Cardiff City confident of winning £100m case as experts predict difference Sala goals would have made

I can see Cardiff winning the case to some extent, but I can't see £100M being awarded on "What might have happened".
There is no guarantee that we would have stayed up with Sala - he might have got injured first game

[Grangenders]

I imagine this has got many years left to run. Will Tan still be around then? If so and we win, I’m not sure Nantes will be having vast sums of money to cough up - apparently they were struggling financially not too long ago.

[Mr Soul '68]

Perhaps it was Sala’s choice, not to spends hours at an airport, to sit next to the great unwashed on a flight. Then spend further time getting off the plane, queue for the passport check, collect own luggage and then face an hour transfer from Bristol to Cardiff. do both us and Nantes sue him and his insurance?
Considering the money he was about to earn he took the convenient option (most would) - probably wouldn’t have come out of his pocket anyway.

If you blame Sala for making that choice then, is it fair that Cardiff have to payout still and is it fair that Nantes have to write off their asset?
The whole thing as a mess and there are no winners here and above all else a couple of young men have lost their lives - as if the families weren’t heartbroken enough they still have this to deal with.

From memory City had bought Sala a ticket for a flight from Nantes to Heathrow and were sending a car up to Heathrow to pick him up. if this was the case (can anyone back me up here) he wouldn't have had the hassle of finding his own way from Bristol (as I'm pretty sure he was not flying into that airport). Also it's not much of a problem getting off the plane, queuing for the passport check, and collecting his own luggage. You make that sound like a major chore. Have you ever flown? Also, I fly several times per year and I am yet at 64 years old, to sit next to someone unwashed, either at an airport waiting area to board a flight nor sitting on a plane. The flight was 45 minutes (think) not 27 hours

[Ninian1962]

I can see Cardiff winning the case to some extent, but I can't see £100M being awarded on "What might have happened".
There is no guarantee that we would have stayed up with Sala - he might have got injured first game

The case is being held in the Nantes Commercial Court which is to CCFC`s advantage as the judges are businessmen rather than solicitors and the judgement will be based on reasonableness and the balance of probabilities rather than strict legal certainty. For this reason the club utilised the services of independent professional statisticians to give an assessment of the probability of the availability of Sala leading to CCFC avoiding relegation (their evidence has been accepted in court disputes before).
Based on the above and the "probability" assessment , which i think was in the range 44% to 52% the following might apply

1) CCFC win the case and the Court awards damages of 44% of the £100m claim so Nantes` insurers have to pay over £44m or
2) Nantes insurers realise Nantes are likely to lose the case so strongly advise their client to settle out of court for a substantial sum but less than £44m

[jon1959]

I imagine this has got many years left to run. Will Tan still be around then? If so and we win, I’m not sure Nantes will be having vast sums of money to cough up - apparently they were struggling financially not too long ago.

In my opinion Tan is very unlikely to part company with Cardiff (even if he can get an offer for the club that he is willing to accept) until the Sala case(s) are completed. I think with him it is about much more than money - it is personal; it is about 'corrupt' agents; it is about his sense of respect and disrespect from Nantes. There are a mass of contradictions (respect!) in there but I can only see him staying until the end.

[Eric Cartman]

I don’t blame anyone bar the people who knew the pilot wasn’t fit to fly. Even if McKay was one of them, I still don’t see where Nantes come in to it?

If he had gone back to Nantes 4 weeks later and this had happened would it even be a thing? It feels to me we are trying to create a grey area around the timing of everything but the deal and the responsibilities of certain agents and clubs but the deal had been completed and Nantes had no obligation to put him on any transport.

All seems very wrong to me. As is the laughable sums they have come up with. Our club is once again being dragged through the mud

If you are a business and employ somebody who does something wrong, you are liable for that mistake/the consequences. Is that not a pretty well established convention?

[Eric Cartman]

The case is being held in the Nantes Commercial Court which is to CCFC`s advantage as the judges are businessmen rather than solicitors and the judgement will be based on reasonableness and the balance of probabilities rather than strict legal certainty. For this reason the club utilised the services of independent professional statisticians to give an assessment of the probability of the availability of Sala leading to CCFC avoiding relegation (their evidence has been accepted in court disputes before).
Based on the above and the "probability" assessment , which i think was in the range 44% to 52% the following might apply

1) CCFC win the case and the Court awards damages of 44% of the £100m claim so Nantes` insurers have to pay over £44m or
2) Nantes insurers realise Nantes are likely to lose the case so strongly advise their client to settle out of court for a substantial sum but less than £44m

I'd imagine we would take the transfer fee as a settlement and that may well have been the plan all along

[North Cardiff Blue]

In my opinion Tan is very unlikely to part company with Cardiff (even if he can get an offer for the club that he is willing to accept) until the Sala case(s) are completed. I think with him it is about much more than money - it is personal; it is about 'corrupt' agents; it is about his sense of respect and disrespect from Nantes. There are a mass of contradictions (respect!) in there but I can only see him staying until the end.

That makes sense, and obviously, the money will also make it far more favorable and less costly to move on.

[North Cardiff Blue]

From memory City had bought Sala a ticket for a flight from Nantes to Heathrow and were sending a car up to Heathrow to pick him up. if this was the case (can anyone back me up here) he wouldn't have had the hassle of finding his own way from Bristol (as I'm pretty sure he was not flying into that airport). Also it's not much of a problem getting off the plane, queuing for the passport check, and collecting his own luggage. You make that sound like a major chore. Have you ever flown? Also, I fly several times per year and I am yet at 64 years old, to sit next to someone unwashed, either at an airport waiting area to board a flight nor sitting on a plane. The flight was 45 minutes (think) not 27 hours

I thought we had offered to buy him a ticket but he rejected our offer.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

Technically, if the club wins and is reimbursed by Nantes for the transfer fee, no loss was suffered as a result of the insurance broker's negligence. It's possible that the terms of the settlement with them could require the club to repay them.

[Mr Soul '68]

I thought we had offered to buy him a ticket but he rejected our offer.

Cheers. You could well be right, and from memory the flight was a 45 minute one from Nantes to Heathrow, with City sending a car to pick him up and drive him to Cardiff

[JumpersforGoalposts]

Cheers. You could well be right, and from memory the flight was a 45 minute one from Nantes to Heathrow, with City sending a car to pick him up and drive him to Cardiff

I believe the "problem" was that a scheduled flight service would be Nantes-Paris-Heathrow taking several hours.

[Don Corleone]

I believe the "problem" was that a scheduled flight service would be Nantes-Paris-Heathrow taking several hours.

No I go quite frequently to Nantes with work , there are direct flights to Gatwick . If I recall correctly at the time there was a direct flight to Heathrow with BA but it was early afternoon and the private plane allowed him more time on the Monday and avoided the journey to Wales from Heathrow

[JumpersforGoalposts]

No I go quite frequently to Nantes with work , there are direct flights to Gatwick . If I recall correctly at the time there was a direct flight to Heathrow with BA but it was early afternoon and the private plane allowed him more time on the Monday and avoided the journey to Wales from Heathrow

My mistake, it was Cardiff-Paris-Nantes on scheduled flights as reported here: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...eveal-14070625

[splott parker]

No I go quite frequently to Nantes with work , there are direct flights to Gatwick . If I recall correctly at the time there was a direct flight to Heathrow with BA but it was early afternoon and the private plane allowed him more time on the Monday and avoided the journey to Wales from Heathrow

Didn’t he want to leave later because he wanted to go to Nantes training ground to say goodbye to his mates?

[Former Labour leader]

The case is being held in the Nantes Commercial Court which is to CCFC`s advantage as the judges are businessmen rather than solicitors and the judgement will be based on reasonableness and the balance of probabilities rather than strict legal certainty. For this reason the club utilised the services of independent professional statisticians to give an assessment of the probability of the availability of Sala leading to CCFC avoiding relegation (their evidence has been accepted in court disputes before).
Based on the above and the "probability" assessment , which i think was in the range 44% to 52% the following might apply

1) CCFC win the case and the Court awards damages of 44% of the £100m claim so Nantes` insurers have to pay over £44m or
2) Nantes insurers realise Nantes are likely to lose the case so strongly advise their client to settle out of court for a substantial sum but less than £44m

Keith, Is it realistically possible that French court will award those sort of figures and have you any idea if insurance would cover? I cannot imagine Nantes have a pot to piss in.

[TheBirchgrovePub]

If you are a business and employ somebody who does something wrong, you are liable for that mistake/the consequences. Is that not a pretty well established convention?

If I owned a business and someone I employed for a specific purpose completed his job then at a later date he separately organised a doomed flight for an ex-employee then I wouldn’t expect to be liable for anything no?

It is ludicrous what we are doing and absolutely shameful. Nantes have acted poorly as well in their actions in terms of not contributing to the trust fund and chasing money immediately, but that is completely unrelated to what we are going after them for and not at all relevant.

When the dust settles on this, people will look back embarrassed at the stance they took on this.

[19bluebirds27]

From memory City had bought Sala a ticket for a flight from Nantes to Heathrow and were sending a car up to Heathrow to pick him up. if this was the case (can anyone back me up here) he wouldn't have had the hassle of finding his own way from Bristol (as I'm pretty sure he was not flying into that airport). Also it's not much of a problem getting off the plane, queuing for the passport check, and collecting his own luggage. You make that sound like a major chore. Have you ever flown? Also, I fly several times per year and I am yet at 64 years old, to sit next to someone unwashed, either at an airport waiting area to board a flight nor sitting on a plane. The flight was 45 minutes (think) not 27 hours

I think it was stated that City offered him a commercial flight that evening.
I am trying to paint the picture of a footballer who now has a choice to take an easy, quick private direct flight.
The cost of it isn’t even the consideration as he wouldn’t be paying for it.

Describing the airport routine suggests I have flown before and sat next few smelly and large ones too.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Didn’t he want to leave later because he wanted to go to Nantes training ground to say goodbye to his mates?

Yes, he did and tied up loose ends, he was making arrangements for someone to look after his dog as well before it could be brought over apparently.

[cityhammer]

If I owned a business and someone I employed for a specific purpose completed his job then at a later date he separately organised a doomed flight for an ex-employee then I wouldn’t expect to be liable for anything no?

It is ludicrous what we are doing and absolutely shameful. Nantes have acted poorly as well in their actions in terms of not contributing to the trust fund and chasing money immediately, but that is completely unrelated to what we are going after them for and not at all relevant.

When the dust settles on this, people will look back embarrassed at the stance they took on this.

Well lets see what happens in court.

[Undercoverinwurzelland]

If I owned a business and someone I employed for a specific purpose completed his job then at a later date he separately organised a doomed flight for an ex-employee then I wouldn’t expect to be liable for anything no?

I'm guessing the action the club took against McKay was partly to establish if he was simply acting as an agent for the deal or something more.

[TheBirchgrovePub]

I'm guessing the action the club took against McKay was partly to establish if he was simply acting as an agent for the deal or something more.

I still fail to see what difference this makes as he wasn’t a Nantes player at the time of the crash.

[JumpersforGoalposts]

I still fail to see what difference this makes as he wasn’t a Nantes player at the time of the crash.

As I understand it the claims before the court are that:
1. Within the context of French employment law Emiliano was still their employee at his time of death as the documents terminating his employment had not been lodged (or had been improperly lodged).
2. Given he was still their employee they owed him a duty of care that they neglected through their arrangements with a connected party to Nantes, i.e. the player agency involved and it's employee/representative who arranged an "illegal" flight.
3. As a result of Nantes negligence Cardiff City suffered financial losses, namely the transfer fee and related costs and the potential earnings from avoiding relegation from the Premier League.