40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[JamesWales]

Being reported that Hamas are apparently willing to accept ceasefire terms

[truthpaste]

Being reported that Hamas are apparently willing to accept ceasefire terms

Hopefully good news:-

BBC Summary
Hamas says it has approved a ceasefire deal for Gaza put forward by Qatari and Egyptian mediators
It is not yet known exactly what the group has agreed to - and whether Israel will give its backing to the plan
The announcement comes as Israel has urged 100,000 Palestinians to leave eastern Rafah ahead of a "limited" military operation
The Israeli military says it is not a wide-scale evacuation and evacuees will be directed to tent cities in Khan Younis and al-Mawasi.

[jon1959]

What a bizzare leap?
To assume that I am in agreement with all that Israel do from day to day, and more than that, that I am jumping up and down in glee!
Sure, your beloved 'The Guardian' may be mainly black & white, but life generally isn't.
I may love and support my children, yet do I agree with all they do on a daily basis? Obviously not.
Please give a little more thought before you take such unfounded leaps in the future.

No leap at all.

Maybe you should re read some of your own posts?

It wasnt that long ago you were amazed that Israel had taken as long as they had to force Palestinian arabs off their land so they could claim what was supposedly promised to their ancestors by your imaginary friend.

You may not agree with everything Israel does day to day, but you have repeatedly made clear your support for ethnic cleansing to fullfil the ‘contract’ in the Old Testament.

Ethnic cleansing in practice means regular murders, expulsion and systematic oppression through the IOF, armed settlers carrying out pogroms, and discriminatory colonial laws - and over 6 million people in refugee camps.

Of course if you have now changed your mind and want to take the side of the oppressed not the oppressor, that is good. Always welcome a sinner who has seen the light! But if not just own your own words and beliefs.

[truthpaste]

jon1959 said:

Maybe you should re read some of your own posts?

If my former posts helped your agenda you'd be quoting them; they don't, so no surprise you haven't.

It wasnt that long ago you were amazed that Israel had taken as long as they had to force Palestinian arabs off their land so they could claim what was supposedly promised to their ancestors by your imaginary friend.

The timing of them inheriting the land they've been promised has nothing to do with HOW that will happen?

You may not agree with everything Israel does day to day, but you have repeatedly made clear your support for ethnic cleansing to fullfil the ‘contract’ in the Old Testament.

A lie, but then why wouldn't you? The god you serve has been a liar from the beginning. And the fact that some people often say they follow no god doesn't negate their god's 'fingerprint' being all over their posts and their consistent attitude to God's chosen people.
Also, who told you that the land promised to the Jews was only attainable via bloodshed?

[Keyser Soze]

That's exactly what a few callers on radio 5 were saying tonight

Israel seems to be going full speed into slaughter , its insanity and its going to be disastrous

Russia attacks Ukraine and they are monsters and we have food collections and invite their president over

The Palestinians in Gaza are caught in the middle between hamas and the Israelis

Not only are they not getting invites to meet Sunak they are also getting bombed and being starved out

Jesus wept

Whilst my feelings are aligned and equally disaheartend, I am surprised that people are surprised. As you say the Arab-Jew problem is perennial. But the new causes of tension have taken on added complexity, with Russia and China assisting Iran’s agitations.

Nothing has changed since Iraq - Afghanistan in that:

1. Battle for resources: Iraqi oil. Plus Afghan lithium & rare earth minerals (the biggest source in the world for Electric Vehicles, along with Chile, US and China)

2. Oil and gas distribution pipelines to Europe / Mediterranean and to the East in China

3. Military supply and access lines fornIran through to Hamas and Hezbollah

4. Iraq and Afghanistan, like Palestinians, Yemen and Lebanon, have Shia-Muslim supporting elites running them as Shia-muslim sympathetic countries for Iran, to help Iran’s Revolutionary Guard achieve it’s geo-political triple objective of: eliminating Israel and its people off the map, getting rid of Western influence in fhe region, and imposing/exporting the vicious, hard, fundamentalist Shia-Muslim form of Islamism onto moderate Sunni muslim countries

5. Influencing global shipping lanes via Suez and Straights of Hormuz, and thus global inflation

The only difference in this decade is that China and Russia are providing military, financial and political influence to it, as it suits their long term strategic agenda of also removing Western influence in the region, and grabbing the oil and minerals for themselves at knock-down, off-market prices.

Radio 5 callers just see “another war” and humanitarian issues, which is reasonable. They cannot seem to see the big picture, or are willfully ignoring it as it is a hard pill to swallow. Many simplistic or well-meaning people don’t want to believe that national political actors can be so cold, strategic, calculating and ruthless, and arguably inhumane.

The Middle East has been a geo-political chessboard for several centuries now. If people can switch on their awareness to this they will form
a more realistic assessment of how messy it is, and likely always will be.

[truthpaste]

Whilst my feelings are aligned and equally disaheartend, I am surprised that people are surprised. As you say the Arab-Jew problem is perennial. But the new causes of tension have taken on added complexity, with Russia and China assisting Iran’s agitations.........

The only difference in this decade is that China and Russia are providing military, financial and political influence to it, as it suits their long term strategic agenda of also removing Western influence in the region, and grabbing the oil and minerals for themselves at knock-down, off-market prices.

Radio 5 callers just see “another war” and humanitarian issues, which is reasonable. They cannot seem to see the big picture, or are willfully ignoring it as it is a hard pill to swallow. Many simplistic or well-meaning people don’t want to believe that national political actors can be so cold, strategic, calculating and ruthless, and arguably inhumane.

The Middle East has been a geo-political chessboard for several centuries now. If people can switch on their awareness to this they will form a more realistic assessment of how messy it is, and likely always will be.

Indeed, and it's been interesting to see here that most people in this discussion share that "Radio 5 callers" perspective.
Thanks for also sharing the deeper picture including Iran, China & Russia, which also explains a lot of what is to come.

[Gofer Blue]

While I share your desire to see him live it in his everyday life to prove he is truly serving Christ, the emphasis on baptism will potentially be misleading to many. As I mentioned yesterday, religious ceremonies have no direct impact on a persons eternal destiny, and can only point (as baptism after repentance does) to a commitment that has already taken place; the Bible says, 'believe and be baptised', because it's faith in Christ that saves, and not any religious act or man-made ceremony.

I understand what you mean by baptism sometimes being misleading. Baptism is the outward sign to others that a person has already accepted Christ rather than the act of being baptised somehow makes a person an instant Christian! Only Russell Brand himself can know that in his heart.

[Gofer Blue]

So much for the ceasefire as the IDF take over control of the Rafah crossing and prepare for the main assault there. If the news is to be believed three Hamas tunnels have apparently been discovered there this morning.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I understand what you mean by baptism sometimes being misleading. Baptism is the outward sign to others that a person has already accepted Christ rather than the act of being baptised somehow makes a person an instant Christian! Only Russell Brand himself can know that in his heart.

I am trying not to get involved with the fruitless religious debates on here but as far as Russell Brand is concerned: he used to be a drug addict, a Buddhist, a sex addict, a bulimic, a porn addict, a self-harmer. He suffers from ADHD and is now accused of numerous sexual misdemenours. It's tempting to think that anything he gets involved with may be intense but ephemeral.

[truthpaste]

I am trying not to get involved with the fruitless religious debates on here but as far as Russell Brand is concerned: he used to be a drug addict, a Buddhist, a sex addict, a bulimic, a porn addict, a self-harmer. He suffers from ADHD and is now accused of numerous sexual misdemenours. It's tempting to think that anything he gets involved with may be intense but ephemeral.

Many people have an intense spiritual experience but that is no guarantee of becoming a genuine Christian?
It's about a total transformation from within which is endorsed and permanently sealed by God, not a flash in the pan. This means that if it is the real thing, his countless 'misdemenours' will have no impact on what has happened to him now.

Saul (Paul) was a murderer of Christians, his life was turned upside down after he met with Christ.

We shall all be watching.

[Gofer Blue]

I am trying not to get involved with the fruitless religious debates on here but as far as Russell Brand is concerned: he used to be a drug addict, a Buddhist, a sex addict, a bulimic, a porn addict, a self-harmer. He suffers from ADHD and is now accused of numerous sexual misdemenours. It's tempting to think that anything he gets involved with may be intense but ephemeral.

Apart from that, just a regular guy then?

[jon1959]

We shall all be watching.

No we all won’t.

[truthpaste]

Apart from that, just a regular guy then?

Fair point.

[the other bob wilson]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68984999

[stevo]

ICC prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Hamas leaders

About time too.

[jon1959]

ICC prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Hamas leaders

About time too.

Long overdue.

Shows the amount of pressure on them from the USA and parts of Europe.

When it came to Russia-Ukraine the ICC moved much more quickly.

[the other bob wilson]

Biden calls the decision “outrageous”, somehow I don’t think he was talking about.the Hamas part of it.

[JamesWales]

Not withstanding the serious issue at play here, there is one of the oddest videos I've ever seen. It's like something from Armando Iannucci.

What the hell are the two people in the background doing?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo

[jon1959]

Biden calls the decision “outrageous”, somehow I don’t think he was talking about.the Hamas part of it.

There is a very good chance Biden was not complicit in any Hamas crimes.

It is absolutely certain he is complicit and has enabled the crimes of Netanyahu, Gallant and the other members of the Israeli War Cabinet not named (yet).

No wonder he's 'outraged'. How dare the upholders of international law point the finger at a US ally. That should only happen to the other lot!

[jon1959]

Biden calls the decision “outrageous”, somehow I don’t think he was talking about.the Hamas part of it.

It looks as if Biden will pay a price in the election. Well written opinion piece here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-2024-election

Biden is in no way guaranteed re-election, and all available information suggests that the contest will be close. Donald Trump has been narrowly but consistently ahead in national polls. A new dataset released by the New York Times on 13 May found that Biden was trailing in five key swing states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania – and suffering from disillusionment among young voters as well as Black and Latino ones.

-

What’s driving this discontent among young voters and voters of color – those cornerstones of Biden’s coalition that were so key to his 2020 victory over Trump in places like Michigan and Pennsylvania? There are several factors, but one issue remains consistent in these voters’ accounts of their dissatisfaction with Biden: his handling of Israel’s assault on Gaza.

The indiscriminate bombing and civilian massacres that have accompanied Israel’s assault on Palestinians are a moral catastrophe that has shaken many Americans’ souls. The United Nations now estimates that more than 35,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel since the start of the fighting. Since many human bodies are buried beneath the rubble of Gaza’s bombed homes, schools and hospitals, that number is likely to be a significant undercount. The dead are mostly women and children; those men who have died are also overwhelmingly non-combatants. More than 1,000 children in Gaza have lost limbs to Israel’s war of revenge.

If that figure cannot shake you into moral recognition, consider that many of those children have endured their amputations without anesthesia, since medicine – like food – has largely been prohibited from being delivered to Gaza by Israeli authorities. More than 75% of Gaza’s population is now displaced, according to the UN; they have left homes, worlds, entire lives that they will never be able to retrieve. More than 1.5 million people are now sheltering in Rafah, the strip’s southernmost city, which Israel is currently bombing and is poised to invade. Many human rights advocates and experts in international law have described Israel’s actions against Gazans as genocide. The death toll will keep climbing.

Many voters believe, with good reason, that none of this would have happened without Biden’s assent. Biden has continued to speak of Israel’s attack on Palestinian civilians using the absurd language of “self-defense”. He has insulted Jewish Americans and the memory of the Holocaust by invoking them to justify the slaughter. And though his White House repeatedly leaks that he is “privately” dismayed by Israel’s conduct of the war, he has done little to stop the flow of US money and guns that support it.

-

Biden’s supporters are quick to point out that the alternative to Biden’s re-election will be dramatically worse, both for Americans domestically, and for those Palestinians who suffer as a result of US policy. And they are right. Biden supporters are right, too, that voting is a binary choice, between the options available. And they are right that abstaining from voting hastens a statistically likely Trump victory.

But these lesser-of-two-evils argument do not lessen the tax on the conscience that many anti-war Americans will feel when they consider whether to vote for Biden in spite of his support for the genocide in Gaza. And they are certainly not justifications for Biden’s continued aid to Israel’s war project. Rather, the extreme dangers of a second Trump presidency are all the more cause for Biden to abandon this support, and to align himself with the moral cause championed by the voters he needs.

[JamesWales]

I can't see how Biden wins. Ironically the US economy is doing relatively well, although I don't think most feel it on the ground.

I guess the big unknown is the court cases with Trump, which I have to say I have only a passing interest in, which is bizarre really.

I'd vote Trump over Biden, although I have no doubt in my mind that Biden is a better person on nearly every level.

[stevo]

So, why would you vote Trump?

[Eric Cartman]

I can't see how Biden wins. Ironically the US economy is doing relatively well, although I don't think most feel it on the ground.

I guess the big unknown is the court cases with Trump, which I have to say I have only a passing interest in, which is bizarre really.

I'd vote Trump over Biden, although I have no doubt in my mind that Biden is a better person on nearly every level.

As much as I hate to be naive and waste my vote, I don't see how I could vote for either. Neither should be leading the most influential country in the world for different reasons.

[jon1959]

As much as I hate to be naive and waste my vote, I don't see how I could vote for either. Neither should be leading the most influential country in the world for different reasons.

Once upon a time Biden's greatest crime was plagiarising Neil Kinnock!

I struggle to get my head around the US presidential elections system (the Belgian play-off rules are much easier!). But although both Trump and Biden are Party affiliated, it seems the individual counts way more than in a parliamentary system like ours where the winning party's leader (if in parliament) becomes the PM.

Shame then that the third party candidates stand no chance of breaking into the duopoly.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...dependent.html

Cornell West or Jill Stein (Green Party) would be worthy of a vote. But it must be Ross Perot who was the last third party candidate to make an impact?

[the other bob wilson]

It looks as if Biden will pay a price in the election. Well written opinion piece here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-2024-election

Biden is in no way guaranteed re-election, and all available information suggests that the contest will be close. Donald Trump has been narrowly but consistently ahead in national polls. A new dataset released by the New York Times on 13 May found that Biden was trailing in five key swing states – Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania – and suffering from disillusionment among young voters as well as Black and Latino ones.

-

What’s driving this discontent among young voters and voters of color – those cornerstones of Biden’s coalition that were so key to his 2020 victory over Trump in places like Michigan and Pennsylvania? There are several factors, but one issue remains consistent in these voters’ accounts of their dissatisfaction with Biden: his handling of Israel’s assault on Gaza.

The indiscriminate bombing and civilian massacres that have accompanied Israel’s assault on Palestinians are a moral catastrophe that has shaken many Americans’ souls. The United Nations now estimates that more than 35,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel since the start of the fighting. Since many human bodies are buried beneath the rubble of Gaza’s bombed homes, schools and hospitals, that number is likely to be a significant undercount. The dead are mostly women and children; those men who have died are also overwhelmingly non-combatants. More than 1,000 children in Gaza have lost limbs to Israel’s war of revenge.

If that figure cannot shake you into moral recognition, consider that many of those children have endured their amputations without anesthesia, since medicine – like food – has largely been prohibited from being delivered to Gaza by Israeli authorities. More than 75% of Gaza’s population is now displaced, according to the UN; they have left homes, worlds, entire lives that they will never be able to retrieve. More than 1.5 million people are now sheltering in Rafah, the strip’s southernmost city, which Israel is currently bombing and is poised to invade. Many human rights advocates and experts in international law have described Israel’s actions against Gazans as genocide. The death toll will keep climbing.

Many voters believe, with good reason, that none of this would have happened without Biden’s assent. Biden has continued to speak of Israel’s attack on Palestinian civilians using the absurd language of “self-defense”. He has insulted Jewish Americans and the memory of the Holocaust by invoking them to justify the slaughter. And though his White House repeatedly leaks that he is “privately” dismayed by Israel’s conduct of the war, he has done little to stop the flow of US money and guns that support it.

-

Biden’s supporters are quick to point out that the alternative to Biden’s re-election will be dramatically worse, both for Americans domestically, and for those Palestinians who suffer as a result of US policy. And they are right. Biden supporters are right, too, that voting is a binary choice, between the options available. And they are right that abstaining from voting hastens a statistically likely Trump victory.

But these lesser-of-two-evils argument do not lessen the tax on the conscience that many anti-war Americans will feel when they consider whether to vote for Biden in spite of his support for the genocide in Gaza. And they are certainly not justifications for Biden’s continued aid to Israel’s war project. Rather, the extreme dangers of a second Trump presidency are all the more cause for Biden to abandon this support, and to align himself with the moral cause championed by the voters he needs.

That’s a good article. I can’t think of an issue in which all four of the main parties on both sides of the Atlantic have been so out of touch with mainstream public thinking. I’d say it’s safe now to deduce that a pretty large majority of the public in the USA and the countries of Western Europe are against Israel’s retaliation to what happened on 7 October - it went well beyond “self defence” months ago.

I find the idea of a second Trump presidency horrifying and have always said I’d be a very reluctant Biden voter if I was American, but it’s reached the stage now where I honestly don’t know if I could vote for him - Biden v Trump makes Sunak v Starmer look like a battle of political giants by comparison!