Hitler.

[delmbox]

According to the Bible, correct; a book that stands unchallenged successfully in any field of understanding despite it's completion over 1900 years ago.

I've got no interest in getting into a theological debate but just from a numbers point of view, if it hadn't been challenged successfully wouldn't Christianity be growing across the world not declining?

[truthpaste]

I've got no interest in getting into a theological debate but just from a numbers point of view, if it hadn't been challenged successfully wouldn't Christianity be growing across the world not declining?

Someone else who wants to air their view but receive no reply.

Well if you are allowed to make a point, then so are the Christian's you are addressing:-

Check your facts before you share just what you'd like to be the truth:-

In 1900, Pentecostals numbered fewer than 1 million. By 2000, they topped 440 million. Currently, they have almost 680 million and are projected to reach 1 billion before 2050.

Growing at a 1.18% rate, Christianity continues to be the largest religion in the world, with an estimated 2.6 billion global adherents, up from slightly less than 2 billion in 2000. By 2050, the CSGC projects Christianity to top 3.3 billion.

Nonreligious people make up slightly more than 11% of the global population today. By 2050, the CSGC projects that percentage to fall below 9%. Currently, less than 2% of people around the world are atheists. Fewer atheists are in the world today (149 million) than in 1970 (165 million).

Article

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

According to the Bible, correct; a book that stands unchallenged successfully in any field of understanding despite it's completion over 1900 years ago.

Just people can't understand how a snake takes or a virgin has a baby doesn't mean the book is true

I think most people have given up trying to understand because it's absolutely potty

[jeepster]

Just people can't understand how a snake takes or a virgin has a baby doesn't mean the book is true

I think most people have given up trying to understand because it's absolutely potty

He never has said anything of truth rather it is in the bible,so it is fact.
Never have i witnessed any kind if miracle.
Surely god would try to save me as a non christian.

[jon1959]

Someone else who wants to air their view but receive no reply.

Well if you are allowed to make a point, then so are the Christian's you are addressing:-

Check your facts before you share just what you'd like to be the truth:-

In 1900, Pentecostals numbered fewer than 1 million. By 2000, they topped 440 million. Currently, they have almost 680 million and are projected to reach 1 billion before 2050.

Growing at a 1.18% rate, Christianity continues to be the largest religion in the world, with an estimated 2.6 billion global adherents, up from slightly less than 2 billion in 2000. By 2050, the CSGC projects Christianity to top 3.3 billion.

Nonreligious people make up slightly more than 11% of the global population today. By 2050, the CSGC projects that percentage to fall below 9%. Currently, less than 2% of people around the world are atheists. Fewer atheists are in the world today (149 million) than in 1970 (165 million).

Article

Name that cult!

[jon1959]

Going to Church will no more make you a Christian than dragging your Great Aunt into the CCS will make her a City fan.
A child of God is any Christian, and I mean a Christian by God's definition, not man-made religion.
Hammer or not, your automatic habit (and that of millions of others) of naming one Man's Name in anger from all the numerous religious icons that everyone has heard of (buddha, mohammid, Vishnu, Shiva etc) indicates one thing, the god you serve hates one Man above all others, the One who defeated Him at the Cross; so all his children can't help but use His Name in anger all the time.

Jesus H Christ, you don’t half talk some bollocks!

[truthpaste]

Name that cult!

Which Cult?

I met with two guys in my front door this morning who are currently in a cult, I felt for them, we shook hands after 25 minutes and I pray they will consider the path they have taken.

Saul (Paul) considered Christianity to be a cult before He found out otherwise, I trust that you and many others will give some time to consider the facts before you move to 'auto-dismiss' at the earliest opportunity.

[delmbox]

Someone else who wants to air their view but receive no reply.

Well if you are allowed to make a point, then so are the Christian's you are addressing:-

Check your facts before you share just what you'd like to be the truth:-

In 1900, Pentecostals numbered fewer than 1 million. By 2000, they topped 440 million. Currently, they have almost 680 million and are projected to reach 1 billion before 2050.

Growing at a 1.18% rate, Christianity continues to be the largest religion in the world, with an estimated 2.6 billion global adherents, up from slightly less than 2 billion in 2000. By 2050, the CSGC projects Christianity to top 3.3 billion.

Nonreligious people make up slightly more than 11% of the global population today. By 2050, the CSGC projects that percentage to fall below 9%. Currently, less than 2% of people around the world are atheists. Fewer atheists are in the world today (149 million) than in 1970 (165 million).

Article

Oh ok great I stand corrected, I just was under a different impression but I'm going to take your word that your sources are better and I misread what I read. My opinions on the matter aren't strong enough to want stuff "I'd like to be the truth" - my mum goes to church every Sunday and her mother and grandmother before her. I don't go myself but if it brings people peace and comfort and doesn't hurt others then great, I was just asking a question based on what I thought to be true vs what you were saying.

Also by the way, saying that someone who's directly asked you a question is a person who "wants no reply" is a bit of a silly thing to say. Maybe if you're going to be the de facto representative of Christianity on here then take the edge off the attitude, it's not a good look.

[jeepster]

Which Cult?

I met with two guys in my front door this morning who are currently in a cult, I felt for them, we shook hands after 25 minutes and I pray they will consider the path they have taken.

Saul (Paul) considered Christianity to be a cult before He found out otherwise, I trust that you and many others will give some time to consider the facts before you move to 'auto-dismiss' at the earliest opportunity.

What a load of lies this is .a crap load of shit.LIER

[life on mars]

Hitler is so yesterday

[truthpaste]

Oh ok great I stand corrected, I just was under a different impression but I'm going to take your word that your sources are better and I misread what I read. My opinions on the matter aren't strong enough to want stuff "I'd like to be the truth" - my mum goes to church every Sunday and her mother and grandmother before her. I don't go myself but if it brings people peace and comfort and doesn't hurt others then great, I was just asking a question based on what I thought to be true vs what you were saying.

Also by the way, saying that someone who's directly asked you a question is a person who "wants no reply" is a bit of a silly thing to say. Maybe if you're going to be the de facto representative of Christianity on here then take the edge off the attitude, it's not a good look.

* I appreciate your honesty, it's refreshing to see given that most of social media is starved of such humility.

* I'm glad you have relatives that are familiar with Church. I trust they have found the Lord at some point in their life, for me it was around 4 years into my Church experience.

As for Christians, there are a few I've seen on here, those who are active in the manner the Bible asks them to be and are not looking to win popularity contests! Jesus Himself called certain religious folk a 'brood of vipers' just to name one sharp phrase He adopted. It's about challenging people to reassess what they've accepted as the truth.
If they really know why they believe what they believe, they will stand their ground, if they are standing on borrowed ideas that they don't actually understand or cannot defend, then they will evaporate or throw insults.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

* I appreciate your honesty, it's refreshing to see given that most of social media is starved of such humility.

* I'm glad you have relatives that are familiar with Church. I trust they have found the Lord at some point in their life, for me it was around 4 years into my Church experience.

As for Christians, there are a few I've seen on here, those who are active in the manner the Bible asks them to be and are not looking to win popularity contests! Jesus Himself called certain religious folk a 'brood of vipers' just to name one sharp phrase He adopted. It's about challenging people to reassess what they've accepted as the truth.
If they really know why they believe what they believe, they will stand their ground, if they are standing on borrowed ideas that they don't actually understand or cannot defend, then they will evaporate or throw insults.

How do YOU know , in 2024 , that a bloke called Jesus adopted the term brood of vipers ?

All Christians and other book related followers do ....Muslims, Jews......is quote either god , Jesus, Muhammed or etc etc ......to back up their faith with absolutely nothing else

Oh but Jesus said if we do this , oh he said to the money lenders , his speech in the garden said etc etc

Same for the other religions

Faith based on dusty old books , not facts

It's 2024 , this is all ridiculous

A book on human biology ......50 years old ......has its faults but still proves that if you don't eat and drink for 2 weeks you will snuff it

If God and Jesus do exist they are doing a pretty pathetic job of using their incredible superhuman powers to show us heaven is great , they exist and everybody should pray to them

If I was all powerful I would be organising take up thy bed and walk events at may day village fetes , bank weekends

I would prove I existed not let a load of vulnerable brainwashed followers do all the work ....because they can't prove it

If I drink petrol instead of water I will dehydrate and die

For you lot to get us lot on side we don't want to read a 2000 year old book , we want your all powerful god to show us evidence of his existence

Facts , not something someone said in the bible

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

https://youtu.be/9AgJgQYPXyk?si=vPSHf6-9JqO1Z2F4

Take up thy bed and walk ??

[truthpaste]

1. All Christians and other book related followers do ....Muslims, Jews......is quote either god , Jesus, Muhammed or etc etc ......to back up their faith with absolutely nothing else

2. Faith based on dusty old books , not facts

3. It's 2024 , this is all ridiculous

4. A book on human biology ......50 years old ......has its faults

Numbers added to your words for clarity below:-

1. I put it to you, the Bible is NOT like the religious books of all other faiths, and because this is so, it demands our attention because of the way it is different. (I'm happy to discuss this).

2. Many dusty old books contain formulas and equations that are still true today, truth is truth and is always the same.

3. 2024 has more things to distrust then any other previous year, especially with the arrival of AI. So what is your point re 2024?

4. Human Biology, Physics etc etc - we don't USE those science text books any more.
Why? They are peppered with mistakes and outdated ideas that are no longer helpful to education.

The Bible in contrast has both science & history in it's pages, yet has never once needed to alter that science or history!

So think for a moment, some of those Bible facts were recorded over 3000 years ago, yet the science book you mentioned only 50 years ago - and you mentioned it "has its faults".

How can this be so if the Bible is just a dry dusty BOOK written by humans with no help from a divine being?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Numbers added to your words for clarity below:-

1. I put it to you, the Bible is NOT like the religious books of all other faiths, and because this is so, it demands our attention because of the way it is different. (I'm happy to discuss this).

2. Many dusty old books contain formulas and equations that are still true today, truth is truth and is always the same.

3. 2024 has more things to distrust then any other previous year, especially with the arrival of AI. So what is your point re 2024?

4. Human Biology, Physics etc etc - we don't USE those science text books any more.
Why? They are peppered with mistakes and outdated ideas that are no longer helpful to education.

The Bible in contrast has both science & history in it's pages, yet has never once needed to alter that science or history!

So think for a moment, some of those Bible facts were recorded over 3000 years ago, yet the science book you mentioned only 50 years ago - and you mentioned it "has its faults".

How can this be so if the Bible is just a dry dusty BOOK written by humans with no help from a divine being?

How do you know the bible facts are ....facts

You were not there at the time nor were the ones who wrote it

I know that if I add iron phiallings to sulphuric acid it causes a chemical reaction

Every time you do it ......fact ......Iron into sulphuric acid .......boom !

What facts can you provide for me that prove that God exists? ........believing he exists is not a fact

[truthpaste]

How do you know the bible facts are ....facts

I know that if I add iron phiallings to sulphuric acid it causes a chemical reaction

Every time you do it ......fact ......Iron into sulphuric acid .......boom !

What facts can you provide for me that prove that God exists? ........believing he exists is not a fact

Here are you are talking about observing an experiment under laboratory conditions, yet you yourself believe in evolution despite the fact it's never been proven in laboritory conditions - the manner you want God to prove that He exists as the Creator of all things.

So BOTH are by definition a faith position (much as you will shrink away from such a word). So why do you demand from God, a standard that you are quite happy to overlook when it comes to what man has told you?

Christ and all the evidence found OUTSIDE the Bible is more than enough proof that God exists; secondly when we examine the content and *structure of the Bible text itself, we have further proof that God (not man) is behind all that has been written.

* Sir Isaac Newton, one of the most brilliant minds in history spend more time searching Bible text than he did on his other scientific research - I have placed two of his quotes below.

I see you have currently ignored the issue of man producing soon out of date science manuals, yet God's Word not needing to be updated in those areas? Do you have a comment on this?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir Isaac Newton:

On the Bible:
"I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily."

On atheism:
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

No a chemical reaction between iron and acid ......heat , energy , bubbles etc .....is a matter of scientific fact

You saying there is a god , one god , all powerful and everywhere at all times is based on ......nothing .....you believe that belief does not produce facts

Facts produce evidence

And that's how we come to reasonable , educated conclusions

In a double blind test hundreds of Christians prayed for their loved ones going through serious and life threatening illness

Other people were asked to do nothing and trust in the people of medicine

The relatives of those who trusted in medicine and did not pray saw positive outcomes

Most of those who were prayed for by Christians died

Of course Christians would in their always cover your back strategy say oh god wanted to take them to heaven or some other nonsense

And of course the few that pulled through ......oh isn't god fantastic ?

Religion and Christianity is the world where logic and fact and evidence simply don't exist

It's fantasy island

[stevo]

Here are you are talking about observing an experiment under laboratory conditions, yet you yourself believe in evolution despite the fact it's never been proven in laboritory conditions - the manner you want God to prove that He exists as the Creator of all things.

So BOTH are by definition a faith position (much as you will shrink away from such a word). So why do you demand from God, a standard that you are quite happy to overlook when it comes to what man has told you?

Christ and all the evidence found OUTSIDE the Bible is more than enough proof that God exists; secondly when we examine the content and *structure of the Bible text itself, we have further proof that God (not man) is behind all that has been written.

* Sir Isaac Newton, one of the most brilliant minds in history spend more time searching Bible text than he did on his other scientific research - I have placed two of his quotes below.

I see you have currently ignored the issue of man producing soon out of date science manuals, yet God's Word not needing to be updated in those areas? Do you have a comment on this?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir Isaac Newton:

On the Bible:
"I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily."

On atheism:
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."

Newton said that at a time when it was believed that the solar system was all there was to our universe. Now, when you consider our sun is one of billions of stars in our own galaxy and our galaxy is one of billions of galaxies in the universe, it stands to reason that there are millions, probably billions of planets in the universe that land in the Goldilocks zone, where it’s not too hot and not too cold to be in a position of being able to support life. I’ve no doubt that if Newton had been presented with those facts he would see things differently.

[Gofer Blue]

Also, the existence of an empty tomb does not prove the resurrection. It merely proves that his tomb was empty.

As this was a one-off historical event, it is not possible to repeat it to prove that it happened, unlike say a new scientific discovery. Hence I think you have to apply the same criteria that apply in a court of law i.e. the event simply has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt, which is a well established principle.

I found this reference: https://thedefenders.net/blogs/beyond-reasonable-doubt/ which states that:

"The prosecution is required to prove the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This means that the evidence presented must be so convincing that no reasonable person could have any doubts about the defendant’s guilt. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt falls entirely on the prosecution. It must present strong and convincing evidence that leaves no room for any reasonable alternative explanations".

The key sentence I think is: it must present strong and convincing evidence that leaves no room for any reasonable alternative explanations".

Thus your statement "the existence of an empty tomb does not prove the resurrection" would be true if there was no other evidence. IMO if you look at the other evidence, then that does indeed leave no room for any reasonable alternative explanations.

[Gofer Blue]

What does this mean ? Who wrote it ?

Say no more ?

No idea

Regardless of who said it, (I leave you to do some research) it's an eternal truth. You ask what it means. It means you should judge a person by their actions rather than by what they say. Anyone who sets out to kill another person because they refuse to accept your faith, in my case Christianity, is by default not a Christian. By my actions I hope that others might see that I am different and are curious as a result.

[truthpaste]

Newton said that at a time when it was believed that the solar system was all there was to our universe. Now, when you consider our sun is one of billions of stars in our own galaxy and our galaxy is one of billions of galaxies in the universe, it stands to reason that there are millions, probably billions of planets in the universe that land in the Goldilocks zone, where it’s not too hot and not too cold to be in a position of being able to support life. I’ve no doubt that if Newton had been presented with those facts he would see things differently.

Supposition isn't an argument, simply hopeful speculation.

Newton's point has only been amplified since he made it, now we see our unique situation in an even bigger universe than we could have possibly imagined. Much as I and millions of others love the Star Trek franchise, it is simply escapist fantasy.

"The likelihood of the spontaneous formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number with 40,000 noughts after it… and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence.’”

This is an astounding improbability! To put “a number with 40,000 noughts after it” in context, it is estimated that the number of atoms in the observable universe is only a number with 80 noughts after it, a tiny number in comparison. As an engineer, this says to me that the atheistic worldview is based on a mathematical impossibility. Don’t ever let an atheist tell you that they don’t believe in miracles, because the mathematics shows that if they believe that the molecules essential for life arose through purely naturalistic processes, they do.

If you are an atheist, your confirmation bias may be screaming at you to ignore this evidence, but I hope you will research it for yourself. If you come across a good answer to this impossibility, I’d be interested to hear it".

From: Atheism is Based on a Mathematical Impossibility - DNA shows it takes more faith to be an atheist than to believe in a creator.

[Gofer Blue]

He never has said anything of truth rather it is in the bible,so it is fact.
Never have i witnessed any kind if miracle.
Surely god would try to save me as a non christian.

He does - he sent Jesus but you have rejected him. End of story.

Re: miracles. I still retain a certain degree of skepticism (a hang over from my pre-Christian days) on this subject, probably because whilst I have heard about miraculous healings, I have only ever witnessed one myself and that was because I was present and I knew the lad concerned and his family also.

A pastor came over from the USA for one year during the early 1990's and he lived for that time in a rented house in the Rhondda. He had been a chaplain in the U.S. air force during WW2, stationed near Marloes in Pembs and still had a heart for Wales all those years later. Frank was a lovely man, very humble, a real man of God, without any of the drama we often associate with American evangelists.

One Sunday he came to our chapel in Pontypool to preach, so he knew nothing about our congregation. Present was a young lad William who had spina bifida and who could only get around in a motorised wheelchair and could only communicate using a laptop (think Stephen Hawkings). During the service Frank suddenly stopped and looked directly at William and simply said, young man get up and walk to me. To our amazement William got up very slowly and walked unaided, albeit unsteadily, towards the front. To say we were all in a kind of shock was an understatement. His family were in awe as were the rest of us who had known William for years.

The strange thing was that although William was able to walk back to his wheelchair, as as far as I know, he never walked again. I still wrestle with that to this day but there was no denying what we witnessed - it was a miracle.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

He does - he sent Jesus but you have rejected him. End of story.

Re: miracles. I still retain a certain degree of skepticism (a hang over from my pre-Christian days) on this subject, probably because whilst I have heard about miraculous healings, I have only ever witnessed one myself and that was because I was present and I knew the lad concerned and his family also.

A pastor came over from the USA for one year during the early 1990's and he lived for that time in a rented house in the Rhondda. He had been a chaplain in the U.S. air force during WW2, stationed near Marloes in Pembs and still had a heart for Wales all those years later. Frank was a lovely man, very humble, a real man of God, without any of the drama we often associate with American evangelists.

One Sunday he came to our chapel in Pontypool to preach, so he knew nothing about our congregation. Present was a young lad William who had spina bifida and who could only get around in a motorised wheelchair and could only communicate using a laptop (think Stephen Hawkings). During the service Frank suddenly stopped and looked directly at William and simply said, young man get up and walk to me. To our amazement William got up very slowly and walked unaided, albeit unsteadily, towards the front. To say we were all in a kind of shock was an understatement. His family were in awe as were the rest of us who had known William for years.

The strange thing was that although William was able to walk back to his wheelchair, as as far as I know, he never walked again. I still wrestle with that to this day but there was no denying what we witnessed - it was a miracle.

Well if god is great he needs to send Jesus again and again, not just once every 2000 years

Because he's using you lot to do his work in converting us and the majority of people are either not interested or think it's nonsense

If I was the world and universes most powerful being I would be very pissed off if all these people were not getting the message that God and Jesus is the way and I would do whatever I could to contact these non believers , through whatever way I could

People have temporary lapses , relapses and huge improvements in medical conditions

A miracle would mean this young lad walked and continued to walk and through your god similar miracles were happening and they happened day in day out and not just when a preacher from America visits a church in pontypool

If God existed he would be able to make people walk or cure their cancer with a click of his fingers when people asked him to do so, time and time again as scientists have to do to prove that if you mix iron shavings with acid you get an explosive reaction

These one off I was there things .....which almost always happen to Christians.....when they are in a church .....with other Christians... are just anecdotal and would need to be carried out time and time again to prove they are indeed an act of god

Hundreds of children , innocent and vulnerable are dying of starvation and bombing in gaza , Africa, India etc ....now , in this present moment

Why has god picked this kid in a wheelchair in a church and not used his incredible powers to save these kids in gaza ?

There will be some philosophical excuse but that's all that's ever offered and that's why atheists and agnostics don't join the big party

[truthpaste]

Well if god is great he needs to send Jesus again and again, not just once every 2000 years

Because he's using you lot to do his work in converting us and the majority of people are either not interested or think it's nonsense

If I was the world and universes most powerful being I would be very pissed off if all these people were not getting the message that God and Jesus is the way and I would do whatever I could to contact these non believers , through whatever way I could

People have temporary lapses , relapses and huge improvements in medical conditions

A miracle would mean this young lad walked and continued to walk and through your god similar miracles were happening and they happened day in day out and not just when a preacher from America visits a church in pontypool

If God existed he would be able to make people walk or cure their cancer with a click of his fingers when people asked him to do so, time and time again as scientists have to do to prove that if you mix iron shavings with acid you get an explosive reaction

These one off I was there things .....which almost always happen to Christians.....when they are in a church .....with other Christians... are just anecdotal and would need to be carried out time and time again to prove they are indeed an act of god

Hundreds of children , innocent and vulnerable are dying of starvation and bombing in gaza , Africa, India etc ....now , in this present moment

Why has god picked this kid in a wheelchair in a church and not used his incredible powers to save these kids in gaza ?

There will be some philosophical excuse but that's all that's ever offered and that's why atheists and agnostics don't join the big party

Agnostics or Theists, God for some reason doesn't do things the way we think He should!

But let's consider the bigger picture. Does a 30 year old father always do things the way his 3 year old son thinks he should?
Obviously not, because the father is aware of what is good or bad for his son, what is safe or dangerous for him too. What makes the difference in this case? 27 years more life experience, wisdom and learning from his own mistakes and those of others too.
The father loves the son, and because of that often says no or wait. Does the son always understand? No, particularly when he knows his dad is quite capable of giving him what he wants. Yes dad can afford that swiss army knife but for some reason says 'no' (?)

The intellect contrast between us and an omniscient (all knowing) God is far far greater than the illustration above, yet apart from that, God knows at least two other things that dad (above) doesn't know. God knows the future, so his decisions are partly based on that. Secondly, God has an eternal perspective on us. We as humans plan from cradle > coffin, God saw us even before we were conceived, our earthly life, and the plight of our eternal soul & spirit. People having considered this then seem to assume that because God has foreknowledge, He somehow has already decided our fate; this is NOT the case, He leaves each of us free to accept or reject Christ Jesus as Gofer has already mentioned (the Bible confirms this).

"If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" - Romans 10:9

[lardy]

If I had superpowers was feeling particularly malevolent one day, I might give someone the power of walking for just a few seconds in a very public setting and in front of their family and friends, and then quickly withdraw it forever.