I actually believe Vincent Tan has become our BEST owner of the club in my lifetime

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

Fantastic owner ....Jirgas got about 3 different user names , the Gimp

I have one username. I have seen accusations that I am Kris. I am not, and have no reason to lie.

I have also received accusations that I am trolling. I am not, I am giving an opinion on a public forum, and I do so without calling people I disagree with gimps, and I do so without accusing others of posting under multiple ids.

I have received accusations that I post in a similar style to other posters - what is that, in English? Possibly, other posters share the same views as me, they do that independently of me and I have no control over what any of the people who are, in your paranoid world, me post.

Now, to prevent further accusations of trolling (i.e. back to the thread topic), would Tan suddenly become a less great owner if Cardiff drop to 7th? Is an owner to be judged purely on league position? In which case, the owner of the club in 1924 would have the greatest claim to being the greatest owner.

How about owners who have accomplished the most with the least amount of money at their disposal? In which case, the owners of the 60s and 70s would have the greatest claims.

I see that the crowd was down to a sub 20,000 again, and a few people here are complaining that the people of Cardiff and the surrounding areas are not getting behind their club. Oddly (and again at the risk of a life-time ban for "trolling", but this is genuinely my opinion), I disagree. The club were able to attract crowds of more than 20,000 with higher ticket prices (in real terms) in 2009-10. In fact, sub 20,000 crowds at CCS were a rarity until recently, and far from blaming an "apathetic and tight-fisted" local population, I blame Tan's handling of the re-brand, it's reversal, it's reversal, and it's reversal (mum told me to do it). I blame Tan's comments about being happy to lose "25%" of the fan base.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21604568

There were many comments from Vincent Tan back in the height of the rebrand days that made it fairly obvious to those of us who disagreed with his methods that we were expendable and that we could go whistle. Which is what many of us are continuing to do. After all, we were told that we wouldn't be missed (yet, you are moaning about our absence) and there were droves of people waiting to take our seats.

The very fact that the football club are unable to pull in 20,000 people for a Saturday 3pm kick off, despite being top, despite outplaying Leeds United four days earlier, despite (in my opinion) very good ticket prices at the club (in fairness to Tan, he has kept ticket prices very fair, in fact they are priced fairly reasonably) - this very fact is down, in a large part, to Vincent Tan's actions in the past.

Now, we can all argue whether he has "righted his wrongs", or he hasn't "righted his wrongs", but his actions in 2012 led to a few people sitting and questioning whether there was an entity to be "loyal" to any longer. Jimmy the Jock happily calls me "disloyal jirga", he's entitled to that opinion. It's a pathetic wind-up attempt because, unlike him, I now realise that "Cardiff City" football "club" are not a club nor an entity that deserves my loyalty. I wonder if Jimmy was at some of the games I was at, with sub 1000 and sub 2000 crowds? He probably was at all of them, the loyal sod.

So, back to the OP - a question, Why weren't you lauding Vincent Tan in December 2013? Or September 2014? Or September 2015? Or September 2016? Is your view that Tan is the "greatest" owner ever as short term as Tan's plans for a Cardiff City that played in red and were going to dominate the Malaysian football shirt market?

[AlwaysAway2]

I was not alive in 1924.

[Penarth Blues]

I have one username. I have seen accusations that I am Kris. I am not, and have no reason to lie.

I have also received accusations that I am trolling. I am not, I am giving an opinion on a public forum, and I do so without calling people I disagree with gimps, and I do so without accusing others of posting under multiple ids.

I have received accusations that I post in a similar style to other posters - what is that, in English? Possibly, other posters share the same views as me, they do that independently of me and I have no control over what any of the people who are, in your paranoid world, me post.

Now, to prevent further accusations of trolling (i.e. back to the thread topic), would Tan suddenly become a less great owner if Cardiff drop to 7th? Is an owner to be judged purely on league position? In which case, the owner of the club in 1924 would have the greatest claim to being the greatest owner.

How about owners who have accomplished the most with the least amount of money at their disposal? In which case, the owners of the 60s and 70s would have the greatest claims.

I see that the crowd was down to a sub 20,000 again, and a few people here are complaining that the people of Cardiff and the surrounding areas are not getting behind their club. Oddly (and again at the risk of a life-time ban for "trolling", but this is genuinely my opinion), I disagree. The club were able to attract crowds of more than 20,000 with higher ticket prices (in real terms) in 2009-10. In fact, sub 20,000 crowds at CCS were a rarity until recently, and far from blaming an "apathetic and tight-fisted" local population, I blame Tan's handling of the re-brand, it's reversal, it's reversal, and it's reversal (mum told me to do it). I blame Tan's comments about being happy to lose "25%" of the fan base.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21604568

There were many comments from Vincent Tan back in the height of the rebrand days that made it fairly obvious to those of us who disagreed with his methods that we were expendable and that we could go whistle. Which is what many of us are continuing to do. After all, we were told that we wouldn't be missed (yet, you are moaning about our absence) and there were droves of people waiting to take our seats.

The very fact that the football club are unable to pull in 20,000 people for a Saturday 3pm kick off, despite being top, despite outplaying Leeds United four days earlier, despite (in my opinion) very good ticket prices at the club (in fairness to Tan, he has kept ticket prices very fair, in fact they are priced fairly reasonably) - this very fact is down, in a large part, to Vincent Tan's actions in the past.

Now, we can all argue whether he has "righted his wrongs", or he hasn't "righted his wrongs", but his actions in 2012 led to a few people sitting and questioning whether there was an entity to be "loyal" to any longer. Jimmy the Jock happily calls me "disloyal jirga", he's entitled to that opinion. It's a pathetic wind-up attempt because, unlike him, I now realise that "Cardiff City" football "club" are not a club nor an entity that deserves my loyalty. I wonder if Jimmy was at some of the games I was at, with sub 1000 and sub 2000 crowds? He probably was at all of them, the loyal sod.

So, back to the OP - a question, Why weren't you lauding Vincent Tan in December 2013? Or September 2014? Or September 2015? Or September 2016? Is your view that Tan is the "greatest" owner ever as short term as Tan's plans for a Cardiff City that played in red and were going to dominate the Malaysian football shirt market?

That's a well reasoned and fair point of view. There's no point in revisiting all the arguments that have gone before as there is no right or wrong - just opinions depending on what you prioritise as important to you. The OP asked whether VT was the best owner in our lifetimes and, with my personal hierarchy of priorities, I think he is. It would be impossible for people who hold your differing priorities to hold the same views as me.

I'm grateful to everyone who protested against Red and helped achieve the U-turn on this issue, and I'd hope that many of them would now be happy to return with that accomplished. I'm just sorry that you are unable to get past the insults you felt you received and just got back to supporting a team that will hopefully be here long after VT has sold up and moved on. I don't support VT, I support the football Club that VT just happens to be the latest custodian of.

On that score, on the whole, I think he's done a great job of taking us from a basket case of a club without a pot to piss in to one where we have the foundations to hopefully move on to a more solid future. My worry is that VT moves on and leaves us with yet another chancer.

[Superdad]

[QUOTE=Badly Ironed Shirt;4789843]I have one username. I have seen accusations that I am Kris. I am not, and have no reason to lie.

I have also received accusations that I am trolling. I am not, I am giving an opinion on a public forum, and I do so without calling people I disagree with gimps, and I do so without accusing others of posting under multiple ids.

I have received accusations that I post in a similar style to other posters - what is that, in English? Possibly, other posters share the same views as me, they do that independently of me and I have no control over what any of the people who are, in your paranoid world, me post.

Now, to prevent further accusations of trolling (i.e. back to the thread topic), would Tan suddenly become a less great owner if Cardiff drop to 7th? Is an owner to be judged purely on league position? In which case, the owner of the club in 1924 would have the greatest claim to being the greatest owner.

How about owners who have accomplished the most with the least amount of money at their disposal? In which case, the owners of the 60s and 70s would have the greatest claims.

I see that the crowd was down to a sub 20,000 again, and a few people here are complaining that the people of Cardiff and the surrounding areas are not getting behind their club. Oddly (and again at the risk of a life-time ban for "trolling", but this is genuinely my opinion), I disagree. The club were able to attract crowds of more than 20,000 with higher ticket prices (in real terms) in 2009-10. In fact, sub 20,000 crowds at CCS were a rarity until recently, and far from blaming an "apathetic and tight-fisted" local population, I blame Tan's handling of the re-brand, it's reversal, it's reversal, and it's reversal (mum told me to do it). I blame Tan's comments about being happy to lose "25%" of the fan base.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21604568

There were many comments from Vincent Tan back in the height of the rebrand days that made it fairly obvious to those of us who disagreed with his methods that we were expendable and that we could go whistle. Which is what many of us are continuing to do. After all, we were told that we wouldn't be missed (yet, you are moaning about our absence) and there were droves of people waiting to take our seats.

The very fact that the football club are unable to pull in 20,000 people for a Saturday 3pm kick off, despite being top, despite outplaying Leeds United four days earlier, despite (in my opinion) very good ticket prices at the club (in fairness to Tan, he has kept ticket prices very fair, in fact they are priced fairly reasonably) - this very fact is down, in a large part, to Vincent Tan's actions in the past.

Now, we can all argue whether he has "righted his wrongs", or he hasn't "righted his wrongs", but his actions in 2012 led to a few people sitting and questioning whether there was an entity to be "loyal" to any longer. Jimmy the Jock happily calls me "disloyal jirga", he's entitled to that opinion. It's a pathetic wind-up attempt because, unlike him, I now realise that "Cardiff City" football "club" are not a club nor an entity that deserves my loyalty. I wonder if Jimmy was at some of the games I was at, with sub 1000 and sub 2000 crowds? He probably was at all of them, the loyal sod.

So, back to the OP - a question, Why weren't you lauding Vincent Tan in December 2013? Or September 2014? Or September 2015? Or September 2016? Is your view that Tan is the "greatest" owner ever as short term as Tan's plans for a Cardiff City that played in red and were going to dominate the Malaysian football shirt market?[/QUOTE


Part of the reason crowds tailed below 20k in the last few seasons was due, mainly, because the family season ticket package was no longer free for under 10's. Up until this point the family section sold up to 8,000 season tickets.It's probably half that this season So,that's 4,000 of the gate

[ken smith]

I have one username. I have seen accusations that I am Kris. I am not, and have no reason to lie.

I have also received accusations that I am trolling. I am not, I am giving an opinion on a public forum, and I do so without calling people I disagree with gimps, and I do so without accusing others of posting under multiple ids.

I have received accusations that I post in a similar style to other posters - what is that, in English? Possibly, other posters share the same views as me, they do that independently of me and I have no control over what any of the people who are, in your paranoid world, me post.

Now, to prevent further accusations of trolling (i.e. back to the thread topic), would Tan suddenly become a less great owner if Cardiff drop to 7th? Is an owner to be judged purely on league position? In which case, the owner of the club in 1924 would have the greatest claim to being the greatest owner.

How about owners who have accomplished the most with the least amount of money at their disposal? In which case, the owners of the 60s and 70s would have the greatest claims.

I see that the crowd was down to a sub 20,000 again, and a few people here are complaining that the people of Cardiff and the surrounding areas are not getting behind their club. Oddly (and again at the risk of a life-time ban for "trolling", but this is genuinely my opinion), I disagree. The club were able to attract crowds of more than 20,000 with higher ticket prices (in real terms) in 2009-10. In fact, sub 20,000 crowds at CCS were a rarity until recently, and far from blaming an "apathetic and tight-fisted" local population, I blame Tan's handling of the re-brand, it's reversal, it's reversal, and it's reversal (mum told me to do it). I blame Tan's comments about being happy to lose "25%" of the fan base.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21604568

There were many comments from Vincent Tan back in the height of the rebrand days that made it fairly obvious to those of us who disagreed with his methods that we were expendable and that we could go whistle. Which is what many of us are continuing to do. After all, we were told that we wouldn't be missed (yet, you are moaning about our absence) and there were droves of people waiting to take our seats.

The very fact that the football club are unable to pull in 20,000 people for a Saturday 3pm kick off, despite being top, despite outplaying Leeds United four days earlier, despite (in my opinion) very good ticket prices at the club (in fairness to Tan, he has kept ticket prices very fair, in fact they are priced fairly reasonably) - this very fact is down, in a large part, to Vincent Tan's actions in the past.

Now, we can all argue whether he has "righted his wrongs", or he hasn't "righted his wrongs", but his actions in 2012 led to a few people sitting and questioning whether there was an entity to be "loyal" to any longer. Jimmy the Jock happily calls me "disloyal jirga", he's entitled to that opinion. It's a pathetic wind-up attempt because, unlike him, I now realise that "Cardiff City" football "club" are not a club nor an entity that deserves my loyalty. I wonder if Jimmy was at some of the games I was at, with sub 1000 and sub 2000 crowds? He probably was at all of them, the loyal sod.

So, back to the OP - a question, Why weren't you lauding Vincent Tan in December 2013? Or September 2014? Or September 2015? Or September 2016? Is your view that Tan is the "greatest" owner ever as short term as Tan's plans for a Cardiff City that played in red and were going to dominate the Malaysian football shirt market?

I feel your pain. I was accused by another poster on here of revelling in people who stopped goings misery.

This was despite the fact I handed my season ticket back when we went red and the person moaning kept going to games.

On a serious note, I missed the day out more than the football. I have a laugh before and after the game and the club is starting to feel more and more like it used to pre-rebrand. He has made mistakes (massive ones), but he seems to be keeping a low profile and leaving the running of the club to others nowadays. The problem with football these days is that every **** feels like they are owed an insight to the inner workings of football clubs. Its almost like they say "I went to Exeter away in the Leyland Daf trophy, therefore I am a better fan and deserve to know how many season tickets we have sold, how much money we make from food and beer and how much money is every single player on".

Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel about what happened, but the past is the past.

[Don Corleone]

It's better now Tan is keeping a low profile and we have a strong personality as manager who is a much better "face" of the club but I still know quite a few people who no longer attend games since the switch to red and have simply got out of the habit of going or just cannot forgive Tan ( one of my sons being one of them!). It's disappointing as they were all very long time supporters of the club