The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

[Gofer Blue]

Jeremy Bowen's report on BBC TV news at 10.00pm - just when you thought things couldn't get much worse:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60949791

There are no words really. I just felt sick to my stomach, those poor people who were simply trying to get away to safety.

Has anyone else on the forum registered to take a refugee family and, if so, have you heard anything further? All we have had is a "thank you" email from HM Gov and nothing else as yet.

[Rjk]

https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting...m_source=share

horrible images, but fascinating to see. the Russians are as usual trying to muddy the waters with their counternarratives, but for once the west is challenging it

[goats]

https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting...m_source=share

horrible images, but fascinating to see. the Russians are as usual trying to muddy the waters with their counternarratives, but for once the west is challenging it

I’m surprised anyone even bothers to listens to Russias response anymore? Indiscriminately bombing and flattening cities with shelling but not shooting dead civilians….yeah rightio course not. Not sure how the Russian guy at the UN can sleep at night

[Trigger]

Their absolute bollox they regularly spout is a result of knowing if they pulled out tomorrow, sanctions would largely be gone within a year and no major news outlets will be talking about war crimes as soon as the next big story comes along.

Sadly they seem untouchable.

[Rjk]

I’m surprised anyone even bothers to listens to Russias response anymore? Indiscriminately bombing and flattening cities with shelling but not shooting dead civilians….yeah rightio course not. Not sure how the Russian guy at the UN can sleep at night

they know they won't convince many people , but they just want to sow the seeds of doubt, there will always be a few who lap it up like the useful idiots they are, and we all know people like that...
we've seen Kremlin narratives posted on here several times

[blue matt]

I watched Simon Weston on GMB this morning, its 40 years since the Falklands task force set-off

He was asked about his thoughts on the Ukraine and basically said with Russia's 4500 Intercontinental missiles we can not do anything else incase it escalates the situation , which we know is where we stand, but it got me thinking, the Russian Tanks / Heavy artillery, Air Force and generally the Russian war machine is pretty crap, what's to say his missiles are any good ? ? ? are we being bluffed with the red button ?? ?

oh for the Star Wars Program ( SDI ) to have actually have been continually funded and completed

[Jordi Culé]

I watched Simon Weston on GMB this morning, its 40 years since the Falklands task force set-off

He was asked about his thoughts on the Ukraine and basically said with Russia's 4500 Intercontinental missiles we can not do anything else incase it escalates the situation , which we know is where we stand, but it got me thinking, the Russian Tanks / Heavy artillery, Air Force and generally the Russian war machine is pretty crap, what's to say his missiles are any good ? ? ? are we being bluffed with the red button ?? ?

oh for the Star Wars Program ( SDI ) to have actually have been continually funded and completed

“what’s to say his missiles are any god ? ? ? are we being bluffed with the red button ?? ?”

Matt, I’m going to suggest here that the Russian artillery managing to level Marioupal reducing it to cinder and ashes may suggest their cruise missiles might indeed work?

I think you’re reaching just a little here butt.

[blue matt]

“what’s to say his missiles are any god ? ? ? are we being bluffed with the red button ?? ?”

Matt, I’m going to suggest here that the Russian artillery managing to level Marioupal reducing it to cinder and ashes may suggest their cruise missiles might indeed work?

I think you’re reaching just a little here butt.

oh I am, I know that

but would they reach the rest of the world, would these nuke warheads be upto the job ? ? ?

of course we would never risk it, but makes you wonder, if we are being bluffed and bullied by the red button

[OurManFlint II]

To be fair anna politkovskaya covered this in one of her
books, especially about the state of their nuclear submarine and the pacific fleet, as well as the nuclear arsenal in Vladivostok, chronically underfunded and in a terrible state.

She got shot on her doorstep.

[lardy]

oh I am, I know that

but would they reach the rest of the world, would these nuke warheads be upto the job ? ? ?

of course we would never risk it, but makes you wonder, if we are being bluffed and bullied by the red button

Only one way to find out, eh?

[blue matt]

To be fair anna politkovskaya covered this in one of her
books, especially about the state of their nuclear submarine and the pacific fleet, as well as the nuclear arsenal in Vladivostok, chronically underfunded and in a terrible state.

She got shot on her doorstep.

I retract my opinion on what could be ( and almost certainly is ) and outstanding armed force that is known around the world as top notch

[Jordi Culé]

I retract my opinion on what could be ( and almost certainly is ) and outstanding armed force that is known around the world as top notch

Smart move Matt (gobby shithouse).

[blue matt]

Smart move Matt (gobby shithouse).

gobby alive shithouse please

[Trigger]

There has been no appetite for such from those in power but would engaging Russia in Ukraine mean all out apocalypse or even much of an increased chance of such?

You would like to think the inevitable mutual destruction would ward off anything getting that far.

I'm thinking in terms of engaging Russia purely within Ukraine, things clearly become very different if Russia itself is under any threat. We are already sending weapons which are killing Russians, have trained soldiers who are now killing Russians and basically in an economic and cyber war with Russia.

Pretending we aren't in some form of conflict with Russia feels odd at this point. If Putin genuinely believed NATO might deploy troops to support Ukraine, I'd imagine he never would have invaded in the first place.

I'm assuming if Putin pulled his army out tomorrow, within a few months most of the International attention will have moved onto something else, leaving him to plot their next excursion.

[Wash DC Blue]

There has been no appetite for such from those in power but would engaging Russia in Ukraine mean all out apocalypse or even much of an increased chance of such?

You would like to think the inevitable mutual destruction would ward off anything getting that far.

I'm thinking in terms of engaging Russia purely within Ukraine, things clearly become very different if Russia itself is under any threat. We are already sending weapons which are killing Russians, have trained soldiers who are now killing Russians and basically in an economic and cyber war with Russia.

Pretending we aren't in some form of conflict with Russia feels odd at this point. If Putin genuinely believed NATO might deploy troops to support Ukraine, I'd imagine he never would have invaded in the first place.

I'm assuming if Putin pulled his army out tomorrow, within a few months most of the International attention will have moved onto something else, leaving him to plot their next excursion.

We (NATO) are very much at war with Russia right now albeit proxy at this point.

Unfortunately, I don't see The Kremlin backing down.
I no longer believe that the Russian people will come good, in fact I think that the population need to be treated as pariahs.

We've been dragged into a game of Russian Roulette and its our turn with the gun very soon.
We will be going all in as we simply cannot not.

[Organ Morgan.]

We (NATO) are very much at war with Russia right now albeit proxy at this point.

Unfortunately, I don't see The Kremlin backing down.
I no longer believe that the Russian people will come good, in fact I think that the population need to be treated as pariahs.

We've been dragged into a game of Russian Roulette and its our turn with the gun very soon.
We will be going all in as we simply cannot not.

You, I and everyone else might wish to be more concerned about our declining standard of living than the ins and outs of a regional conflict in far off lands.

U.S. Households Face $5,200 Inflation Tax This Year - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rg%20Economics.

From that article - 'Inflation will mean the average U.S. household has to spend an extra $5,200 this year ($433 per month) compared to last year for the same consumption basket, Bloomberg Economics reports.'

Five days before that article was published (right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohGa1DcA6BI&t=103s), President Biden stated in a matter-of-fact, oh hum fashion, that food shortages [and consequently ever higher prices] are dead ahead and, credit to him, accepted a spiralling cost of existing will result from the imposition of Russian sanctions.

[Wash DC Blue]

You, I and everyone else might wish to be more concerned about our declining standard of living than the ins and outs of a regional conflict in far off lands.

U.S. Households Face $5,200 Inflation Tax This Year - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rg%20Economics.

From that article - 'Inflation will mean the average U.S. household has to spend an extra $5,200 this year ($433 per month) compared to last year for the same consumption basket, Bloomberg Economics reports.'

Five days before that article was published (right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohGa1DcA6BI&t=103s), President Biden stated in a matter-of-fact, oh hum fashion, that food shortages [and consequently ever higher prices] are dead ahead and, credit to him, accepted a spiralling cost of existing will result from the imposition of Russian sanctions.

Inflation was on the cards before this mess.
Also considering that Ukranian farmers seem to be harvesting Russian tanks instead of grain...a food shortage seems inevitable.

That seems to pale into insignificance compared to what the Ukranians are going through.

Fcuk Putin!!

[Organ Morgan.]

Putin bashing is fair enough, I have to take issue with you wanting to treat all Russians as pariahs though.

There was a video posted earlier in this thread where ordinary Russians were interviewed on the streets to be asked about their opinions about the invasion. One said, rather wearily, that "the government's the shepherd, we are the sheep."

It's the same all over; citizens, or most of them, fall in line with their governments' foreign policies.

[Wash DC Blue]

Putin bashing is fair enough, I have to take issue with you wanting to treat all Russians as pariahs though.

There was a video posted earlier in this thread where ordinary Russians were interviewed on the streets to be asked about their opinions about the invasion. One said, rather wearily, that "the government's the shepherd, we are the sheep."

It's the same all over; citizens, or most of them, fall in line with their governments' foreign policies.

I know that it's not right its just how I feel at the moment.
I've been watching Russian YouTubers and some of the candid Street interviews.

However the majority it seems have bought into Z.

[blue matt]

That seems to pale into insignificance compared to what the Ukranians are going through.

Fcuk Putin!!

This is a point that people seem to be either missing or just ignoring, Yea sure cost of living is going up, we might suffer due to fuel / food shortages / costs , but we have is fairly easy, if we were in Ukraine, Russian soldiers might be digging massive holes our gardens to bury us after we have been executed

[blue matt]

Putin bashing is fair enough, I have to take issue with you wanting to treat all Russians as pariahs though.

There was a video posted earlier in this thread where ordinary Russians were interviewed on the streets to be asked about their opinions about the invasion. One said, rather wearily, that "the government's the shepherd, we are the sheep."

It's the same all over; citizens, or most of them, fall in line with their governments' foreign policies.

maybe them sheep could turn on the Shepard and it might put a stop to all of this, it happened to its neighbour in 2014

[A Quiet Monkfish]

they know they won't convince many people , but they just want to sow the seeds of doubt, there will always be a few who lap it up like the useful idiots they are, and we all know people like that...
we've seen Kremlin narratives posted on here several times

True, though I'd be very surprised if everything we're being shown by the Ukrainians is absolutely genuine.

[Organ Morgan.]

maybe them sheep could turn on the Shepard and it might put a stop to all of this, it happened to its neighbour in 2014

Russians don't come close to the USA when it comes to wholesale killings - https://twitter.com/redfishstream/st...22409152290817

It wasn't just humans either, hardly a tree was left standing with the amount of Agent Orange it dropped on Vietnam.

[Wash DC Blue]

Russians don't come close to the USA when it comes to wholesale killings - https://twitter.com/redfishstream/st...22409152290817

It wasn't just humans either, hardly a tree was left standing with the amount of Agent Orange it dropped on Vietnam.

I hate the word "Whataboutism" but Whataboutism.

[Rjk]

I hate the word "Whataboutism" but Whataboutism.

yes that is absolutely whatabouttery, and it's come directly from the Kremlin with a quite transparent intention