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Thread: Justin Trudeau

  1. #26

    Re: Justin Trudeau

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Being of that "certain age" myself, I well remember the Black & White Minstrel Show. Like you I hardly ever watched it unless my grandmother had it on the TV when I called there. She loved the programme because it always consisted of those gentle sing-along type songs which she enjoyed very much. The fact that the blokes were blacked up was irrelevant to her and to imagine that she was some kind of extreme right wing Neo-Nazi type is simply laughable!
    If that last sentence was directed at me then you've completely missed the point I was trying to make. My parents used to regularly watch the Black and White Minstrel Show and there is no way on earth that my mum was a racist, but my dad was like so many around then in that he would say things that would probably get him into arguments these days, but he was an example of the point I wanted to make, he was a product of his time and, as such, it was no surprise that he was like he was.

    As part of the generation that came after my father's, I had no problem as such with the Black and White Minstrel Show and I still rate Fawlty Towers as the funniest comedy series I've ever seen, I used to enjoy watching Alf Garnett ranting away in Till Death Us Do Part as well, but drew the line at Love my Neighbour which, besides being plain not funny, went the wrong side of the line for me, while I'd watch a show like Mind Your Language while thinking what am I doing watching this - for me, John Cleese and Warren Mitchell's characters worked because they were the target of the humour.

    Coming back to the Black and White Minstrel Show, if the only reason it was popular was, as you imply, the songs that were being sung, the obvious questions that arise is why was there any need for the singers to be blacked up and, if the songs that were being sung were of a traditional negro spiritual type, why not have black performers singing them? The only possible answer I can come up with is that the makers of the show believed that the audience they got would be smaller if black performers were used.

    My point is that in the time the show was being broadcast, I don't think there was too much controversy around about its format. I daresay there were some in the white community who found it offensive, but nowhere remotely close to a majority - youngsters who label the show racist now need to realise that if there was racism, it was of an unconscious type on most people's part, but I accept that the critical feelings of any non whites about the show were, basically, just ignored.

    That show would never be broadcast today and I think Fawlty Towers and Till Death Us Do Part would have had to be "toned down" somewhat if they were to make it onto the screens now. I repeat, maybe our generation needs to question sometimes whether those that come after us have got things more right than we did?

  2. #27

    Re: Justin Trudeau

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    If that last sentence was directed at me then you've completely missed the point I was trying to make. My parents used to regularly watch the Black and White Minstrel Show and there is no way on earth that my mum was a racist, but my dad was like so many around then in that he would say things that would probably get him into arguments these days, but he was an example of the point I wanted to make, he was a product of his time and, as such, it was no surprise that he was like he was.

    As part of the generation that came after my father's, I had no problem as such with the Black and White Minstrel Show and I still rate Fawlty Towers as the funniest comedy series I've ever seen, I used to enjoy watching Alf Garnett ranting away in Till Death Us Do Part as well, but drew the line at Love my Neighbour which, besides being plain not funny, went the wrong side of the line for me, while I'd watch a show like Mind Your Language while thinking what am I doing watching this - for me, John Cleese and Warren Mitchell's characters worked because they were the target of the humour.

    Coming back to the Black and White Minstrel Show, if the only reason it was popular was, as you imply, the songs that were being sung, the obvious questions that arise is why was there any need for the singers to be blacked up and, if the songs that were being sung were of a traditional negro spiritual type, why not have black performers singing them? The only possible answer I can come up with is that the makers of the show believed that the audience they got would be smaller if black performers were used.

    My point is that in the time the show was being broadcast, I don't think there was too much controversy around about its format. I daresay there were some in the white community who found it offensive, but nowhere remotely close to a majority - youngsters who label the show racist now need to realise that if there was racism, it was of an unconscious type on most people's part, but I accept that the critical feelings of any non whites about the show were, basically, just ignored.

    That show would never be broadcast today and I think Fawlty Towers and Till Death Us Do Part would have had to be "toned down" somewhat if they were to make it onto the screens now. I repeat, maybe our generation needs to question sometimes whether those that come after us have got things more right than we did?
    No, it was not directed at you - I'm surprised you thought that, as I totally agree with your post. It was directed at the younger generation you refer to who might imagine that my grandmother was some kind of rabid racist for watching a programme where white blokes blacked their faces. Regarding your question about why the BBC did not employ black singers, I wonder where there many around at that time who could sing those kind of "crooner" songs? Harry Belafonte perhaps?

    What about the jazz bands of the 1920's in the valleys during the general strike? Would they too be considered racist today?

  3. #28

    Re: Justin Trudeau

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    No, it was not directed at you - I'm surprised you thought that, as I totally agree with your post. It was directed at the younger generation you refer to who might imagine that my grandmother was some kind of rabid racist for watching a programme where white blokes blacked their faces. Regarding your question about why the BBC did not employ black singers, I wonder where there many around at that time who could sing those kind of "crooner" songs? Harry Belafonte perhaps?

    What about the jazz bands of the 1920's in the valleys during the general strike? Would they too be considered racist today?
    I think your point is very well made and I doubt if many of the people at that time we're racists and indeed most would probably have wanted people of other races to have experienced better lives.

    However, time moves on and inevitably opinions develop and change. What might have seemed innocent enough in the 60s and 70s is now seen in a much more critical light. Back in the early 19th century African slaves were considered mere chattels (even in law) yet I doubt the majority of people living in those times, even slaveowners, regarded themselves as racists. The owning of slaves was thought comparable to owning livestock; slaves were considered sub human with respect to their rights. Fast forward to the 60s and 70s and I doubt hardly anyone would have thought slavery anything other than an abomination so attitudes had changed immeasurably in about a hundred years.

    Back to today and attitudes are still changing and that is why Justin Trudeau was right to apologize. I doubt he is racist or performed his role as a racist act, but he was absolutely right to acknowledge how he now realizes it was a mistake.

  4. #29

    Re: Justin Trudeau

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I think your point is very well made and I doubt if many of the people at that time we're racists and indeed most would probably have wanted people of other races to have experienced better lives.

    However, time moves on and inevitably opinions develop and change. What might have seemed innocent enough in the 60s and 70s is now seen in a much more critical light. Back in the early 19th century African slaves were considered mere chattels (even in law) yet I doubt the majority of people living in those times, even slaveowners, regarded themselves as racists. The owning of slaves was thought comparable to owning livestock; slaves were considered sub human with respect to their rights. Fast forward to the 60s and 70s and I doubt hardly anyone would have thought slavery anything other than an abomination so attitudes had changed immeasurably in about a hundred years.

    Back to today and attitudes are still changing and that is why Justin Trudeau was right to apologize. I doubt he is racist or performed his role as a racist act, but he was absolutely right to acknowledge how he now realizes it was a mistake.
    A very good and measured post when we live in an age of people taking extreme and polarised positions on the internet.

  5. #30

    Re: Justin Trudeau

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    A very good and measured post when we live in an age of people taking extreme and polarised positions on the internet.
    He apologized, and then he blamed it all on privilege. So he's saying it's not really his fault, and everybody is to blame including you!

  6. #31

    Re: Justin Trudeau

    Quote Originally Posted by Gofer Blue View Post
    Being of that "certain age" myself, I well remember the Black & White Minstrel Show. Like you I hardly ever watched it unless my grandmother had it on the TV when I called there. She loved the programme because it always consisted of those gentle sing-along type songs which she enjoyed very much. The fact that the blokes were blacked up was irrelevant to her and to imagine that she was some kind of extreme right wing Neo-Nazi type is simply laughable!
    Indeed , great reply, world has gone mad .

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