The negativity on this board is ludicrous!

[thehumblegringo]

I don’t think he looks clumsy, or awkward, if anything he looks too composed as he’s used to having more time on the ball than what he’s gping through get in the championship, especially away at Millwall.

However I do think it would help if he had similair players on his wavelength rather than just waiting for the ball to be hooked on and helped forward.

I fear this is another boob from Warnock, much like Tomlin, where he doesn’t fit into his style.

Snap

[dml1954]

I don’t think he looks clumsy, or awkward, if anything he looks too composed as he’s used to having more time on the ball than what he’s gping through get in the championship, especially away at Millwall.

However I do think it would help if he had similair players on his wavelength rather than just waiting for the ball to be hooked on and helped forward.

I fear this is another boob from Warnock, much like Tomlin, where he doesn’t fit into his style.

Have you seen Tomlins performances for Forest ? - embarrassing to say the least. For the second Hull goal yesterday he was standing on the edge of the area with his hands on his hips.

[J R Hartley]

Ah - the old 'blame dml to cover up my own argumentative posts' ploy. Clever.

This was an amicable discussion until you joined in.

I actually agree with a lot of what Lawnmower says even though we have different outlooks on football.

He tends to be able to say it without coming across as a total ****. You should try it sometime.

[J R Hartley]

Have you seen Tomlins performances for Forest ? - embarrassing to say the least. For the second Hull goal yesterday he was standing on the edge of the area with his hands on his hips.

Yet you defended him to the hilt when he was a Cardiff City player?!?. Made every excuse under the sun for him. Hypocrite.

And if you read my post again without the Regi Blinkers on I’m critiscising signing someone who clearly doesn’t fit the way you want to play the game, not the decision to move him on.

His performances for Forest are totally irrelevant to the point I made.

[jamieccfc]

As soon as Damour replaced Patterson he introduced an element of control in midfield. There was more composure and it was why we played better in the final 20. Damour is a better passer of the ball then Patterson but more importantly he is a better midfielder who knows how to play in midfield.

If Warnock continues to favour 6 footers over players who can actually play in their position then we're going to have to get used to this..I actually think he is an incredibly negative manager who has little belief in technical players and relies heavily on big players to bully the opposition into defeat. Reminds me of the P E teacher in school who always chose the biggest lads over the ones with actual talent.

I agree with this. Earlier in the season we used pace and power playing the ball in to space giving our players the chance to get on to it now it's just hit and hope. I don't think I'm asking for much that we stop playing Patterson in midfield and stop bypassing the midfield we don't have to play tippy tippy football but we need to stop surrendering possession so easily and putting ourselves under pressure

[dml1954]

Yet you defended him to the hilt when he was a Cardiff City player?!?. Made every excuse under the sun for him. Hypocrite.

And if you read my post again without the Regi Blinkers on I’m critiscising signing someone who clearly doesn’t fit the way you want to play the game, not the decision to move him on.

His performances for Forest are totally irrelevant to the point I made.

So when I disagree with something you post I am a total ****. You obviously dont read anyones posts before you jump in either because with regard to Tomlin I previously strongly defended Warnocks decisions to leave him out, not Tomlin himself, in the general hysterical clamour to get him in the team when he obviously wasnt up to it. Nice that you have reverted to type as well and resorted to insults, after accusing me of spoiling the thread, when I had been contributing to it for some time before you stuck your nose in. Who are you to tell people how and what to post as well - I dont resort to swearing and insults in my posts, unlike you.

[jamieccfc]

It's not just one good game v Sunderland though.

His performance at Leeds was outstanding- he had the highest 'who scored' rating I've ever seen from a City player, he scores goals and creates chances. His goals/ assists per minute are fantastic.

Also I don't see WHO else we can play in there until Gunnar and Bryson are fit- unless we go 4-4-2 but then where does that leave Hoillet and Wildshut ?

As I said and backed up earlier Damour isn't really the answer.

Hoilett imo

[Lawnmower]

Hoilett imo

Hoillet what ? 😂

[jamieccfc]

Hoillet what ? ��

Instead of Patterson

[Lawnmower]

I don’t think he looks clumsy, or awkward, if anything he looks too composed as he’s used to having more time on the ball than what he’s gping through get in the championship, especially away at Millwall.

However I do think it would help if he had similair players on his wavelength rather than just waiting for the ball to be hooked on and helped forward.

I fear this is another boob from Warnock, much like Tomlin, where he doesn’t fit into his style.

I just think he's struggling to adapt to the pace of it. He's getting closed down very quickly and is not used to it.

He did a beautiful piece of control as turn on the edge of the area on Friday when we were under pressure and one or 2 other things. However at other times he seemed rushed and panicky.

I hope ( and reckon) he will come good.

In terms of what's around him, he and the team were not helped by NML not being able to keep the ball and also Madine being smashed every time he went for a header.

[Lawnmower]

Instead of Patterson

In centre mid ?

Who replaces Hoillet ?

[J R Hartley]

Who are you to tell people how and what to post as well -

Truly astounding

[J R Hartley]

In centre mid ?

Who replaces Hoillet ?

Your mate Feeney 😂

[the other bob wilson]

Do you think though that a lot of that is down to what we've got available.

For example, if Bryson was fit we'd pass it around more than if Patterson is playing in there.
Maybe also with Gunner although his passing is fairly poor.

Same for Zohore and NML - if they were playing and finding space then there would be something for the midfielders to pass to.

At the moment with what we've got I think it's expecting too much to be playing silky football.

Not to say we can't be better, as we can, but I think overall the criticism is OTT

Let's also remember our best passer wasn't 100% well on Friday and we were up against one of the most physical and hard working sides in the league - and seemed to have a lot of decisions go against us during the period when we lost our way. Difficult to pass it around when you are getting clattered and there was a little bit of panic going on too when Millwall were well on top.

At the start and end we played some good stuff.

We are going to have to see more if this if we are to beat Bolton, who like Birmingham, Preston, Bristol City and Millwall will match us physically and play direct as well

I think there is bit of a misconception here, because I don't feel those being critical of the sort of stuff we've been playing recently want to see us playing "silky football" - as you say, we're not really suited to playing that way. However, speaking for myself, I'd like to see us playing like we did for a year under Neil Warnock's management when we were able to play to our front three's strengths. Last season Hoilett, Harris and Zohore were a very effective Championship forward line because we played the ball into the channels as opposed to the hooking, bashing and crash bang walloping that we have been seeing lately.

Look at what happens with Zohore - Junior Hoilett plays a proper pass, designed to utilise Zohore's strengths, to him and five seconds later, the ball is in Sunderland's net. I tend to be a backer of Zohore, but I was really annoyed with him in the Man City match because he was given two similar passes in that match and was too indecisive and selfish to make anything of them - he just hasn't been getting those sort of passes in the Championship though. For me, the signing of Madine is like an admission of defeat in that we seem to have accepted that we are unable now to provide the sort of service the striker who was so effective for us under Neil Warnock last season thrived on, so we have bring in someone else who will contest "fighting" balls for ninety minutes.

I'm not sure whether getting Bryson back would make much difference because he tended to disappear from matches too much for me, but I do believe that we are missing Gunnarsson an awful lot - apparently, I have a higher opinion of his passing than you, because I see him as a pretty good passer of the ball who is intelligent enough to play within his limitations.

You are right to name those sides who will offer us a similar type of challenge to Millwall because it seems to me that there are more sides playing a direct and physical game in the Championship than normal, but, despite this, we still sit there at the bottom of the table when it comes to passes played, successful passes played, accurate long balls and accurate short balls - as I said earlier in this thread, I find it incredible that a side lying fourth in the table with a third of the season left to play can have such woeful passing stats.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...ship-2017-2018

[Lawnmower]

Your mate Feeney 😂

Feeney looked very good when he came on v Man City.

Unlucky not to have featured since after causing them more issues in 10 minutes than NML did in 80

[J R Hartley]

Feeney looked very good when he came on v Man City.

Unlucky not to have featured since after causing them more issues in 10 minutes than NML did in 80

Was Wildschut injured on Friday do you know?

[Lawnmower]

I think there is bit of a misconception here, because I don't feel those being critical of the sort of stuff we've been playing recently want to see us playing "silky football" - as you say, we're not really suited to playing that way. However, speaking for myself, I'd like to see us playing like we did for a year under Neil Warnock's management when we were able to play to our front three's strengths. Last season Hoilett, Harris and Zohore were a very effective Championship forward line because we played the ball into the channels as opposed to the hooking, bashing and crash bang walloping that we have been seeing lately.

Look at what happens with Zohore - Junior Hoilett plays a proper pass, designed to utilise Zohore's strengths, to him and five seconds later, the ball is in Sunderland's net. I tend to be a backer of Zohore, but I was really annoyed with him in the Man City match because he was given two similar passes in that match and was too indecisive and selfish to make anything of them - he just hasn't been getting those sort of passes in the Championship though. For me, the signing of Madine is like an admission of defeat in that we seem to have accepted that we are unable now to provide the sort of service the striker who was so effective for us under Neil Warnock last season thrived on, so we have bring in someone else who will contest "fighting" balls for ninety minutes.

I'm not sure whether getting Bryson back would make much difference because he tended to disappear from matches too much for me, but I do believe that we are missing Gunnarsson an awful lot - apparently, I have a higher opinion of his passing than you, because I see him as a pretty good passer of the ball who is intelligent enough to play within his limitations.

You are right to name those sides who will offer us a similar type of challenge to Millwall because it seems to me that there are more sides playing a direct and physical game in the Championship than normal, but, despite this, we still sit there at the bottom of the table when it comes to passes played, successful passes played, accurate long balls and accurate short balls - as I said earlier in this thread, I find it incredible that a side lying fourth in the table with a third of the season left to play can have such woeful passing stats.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...ship-2017-2018

Interesting to see that most of the teams we have struggled against are near the top of the headers won stats..

Millwall, Preston, Birmingham, QPR ,
Bolton.


In terms of the pass stats, these are always going to be warped by the number of short passes in their own half. I'd take them with a pinch of salt.

Any team that rolls the ball out from the keeper would get better % ages , we always kick it long from the goalie.
I'd be more interested in accurate passes etc.. in the opponents half.

[jamieccfc]

In centre mid ?

Who replaces Hoillet ?

In the hole between midfield and striker. I might give traore a go given his pace but we have plenty of options Pilkington feeney NML even Bennet could do a job there you could even put Patterson in the right side

[Lawnmower]

Was Wildschut injured on Friday do you know?

I don't know sorry.

My guess was he was one of the ones who was struggling with illness along with Bamba and Ralls

[Lawnmower]

In the hole between midfield and striker. I might give traore a go given his pace but we have plenty of options Pilkington feeney NML even Bennet could do a job there you could even put Patterson in the right side

Possibly 👍 I think Hoillet in the middle isn't a bad idea. He's our biggest threat, so put him somewhere where he's constantly involved.

It's not straightforward as Patterson HAS been really effective in there.
Load some of goals and assists - and Hoillet has been doing well out wide

[jamieccfc]

Possibly �� I think Hoillet in the middle isn't a bad idea. He's our biggest threat, so put him somewhere where he's constantly involved.

It's not straightforward as Patterson HAS been really effective in there.
Load some of goals and assists - and Hoillet has been doing well out wide

I think Patterson has done remarkably well but what annoys me with him up there is the players think they can just lump the ball up to him all the time another reason I didn't want us to sign madine tbh, what really pissed me with millwall was that madine wasn't getting any joy but we just kept on persisting in smashing it to him and any team Would be putting the ball down the left all game once the full back had been booked within minutes of the game

[J R Hartley]

So when I disagree with something you post I am a total ****. You obviously dont read anyones posts before you jump in either because with regard to Tomlin I previously strongly defended Warnocks decisions to leave him out, not Tomlin himself, in the general hysterical clamour to get him in the team when he obviously wasnt up to it. Nice that you have reverted to type as well and resorted to insults, after accusing me of spoiling the thread, when I had been contributing to it for some time before you stuck your nose in. Who are you to tell people how and what to post as well - I dont resort to swearing and insults in my posts, unlike you.

You still claimed up until a few weeks ago that Tomlin was an “Excellent signing” and that anyone who said he was a waste of money was “talking rubbish”

You’re so busy disagreeing with people you can’t even remember contradicting yourself.

[the other bob wilson]

Interesting to see that most of the teams we have struggled against are near the top of the headers won stats..

Millwall, Preston, Birmingham, QPR ,
Bolton.


In terms of the pass stats, these are always going to be warped by the number of short passes in their own half. I'd take them with a pinch of salt.

Any team that rolls the ball out from the keeper would get better % ages , we always kick it long from the goalie.
I'd be more interested in accurate passes etc.. in the opponents half.

Surely the point is though that in a League noted for it's direct football anyway, it seems to me that there are more sides that are not rolling the ball out and playing from the back than there usually is. Yet in this league where "passing football" seems less popular than normal and the standard of passing probably isn't as good as it has been, we are still bottom of all the stats designed to measure quality of passing?

[the other bob wilson]

Possibly �� I think Hoillet in the middle isn't a bad idea. He's our biggest threat, so put him somewhere where he's constantly involved.

It's not straightforward as Patterson HAS been really effective in there.
Load some of goals and assists - and Hoillet has been doing well out wide

We may be at odds about how we are playing currently, but I agree with you here. Paterson isn't a classic number ten, but I'd say he has attributes which could make him a success in that position. Midfield play is often about getting the blend right and in Paterson's case, his passing (which I don't think is quite as bad as some make out) lets him down at times, so you try to compensate by having a playmaker type in there as well - Paterson is able to tackle and will work hard when we are not in possession, so if you have another tackler as your other midfield player you are on the way to getting a balanced midfield. Unfortunately, we have come to specialise in midfielders who are, basically, the same type of player - as I've mentioned before, we've got a lot of "bread and butter" in our midfield, but we could certainly do with some jam.

[dml1954]

You still claimed up until a few weeks ago that Tomlin was an “Excellent signing” and that anyone who said he was a waste of money was “talking rubbish”

You’re so busy disagreeing with people you can’t even remember contradicting yourself.

No I didnt say that at all. You are making it up to make yourself look important/clever - an impossible job by the way, so give it up. What I said about him was he only cost £1.6m not £3m as people were saying, that he wasnt fit enough to play and that Warnock was right to leave him out as a result because some people were continually droning on that he should be playing.