Another mass shooting

[Heisenberg]

I find it remarkable that so many people here think they've got some right to dictate to the USA that they should change their constitution.

I get it, you don't like the right to bear arms any more than you like the freedom of speech or restricting illegal immigration, but why does it worry you if a foreign country has these things ? It's not as if we've got any of that stuff here, is it ?

We don't hear the dumbed down generation complaining about countries where they execute homosexuals and adulterers , prevent females going to school or perform genocide , but they're incandescent with rage that a free country allows its citizens personal responsibility and freedom from state intervention before any crime has been committed .

The irony of telling people what subject they are allowed an opinion on in the same breath as accusing others of being against freedom of speech (who are these people you speak of that are actually doing this, by the way?)

The 'dumbed down generation' as you so eloquently put it, frequently complain about the atrocities that you have mentioned. I'm not sure how you would know either way... Have you got a good sample size of these thick-as-shit, millennial loonie liberals in your social circle that you can vox pop on the subject?

Hopefully you can come back and post a chart with your results after you've conducted your research.

Getting back to the issue at hand, not wanting innocent children to be murdered in their classrooms every year shouldn't be a f**king discussion.

Dunblane turned out to be the pivotal moment in gun control in the UK - why shouldn't the public of a nation that hasn't had a school shooting in over 20 years, thanks to changes in our gun laws, be able to say that they think another nation has got their priorities completely arse backwards in regards to gun control? (This is usually when someone says that the USA's history is more entrenched in gun culture/wars so it wouldn't work... Let's just skip that bit by saying Germany have had 4 mass shootings in 20 years, the USA have had 2 in the last 24 hours!)

The ones who talk about tyranny and constitutional rights clearly care more about history and tradition than the lives of innocent civilians living in a different world to the one when independence was declared in the US over 200 years ago! They can go **** themselves... Hopefully with a bayonet rifle.

[severncity]

The irony of telling people what subject they are allowed an opinion on in the same breath as accusing others of being against freedom of speech (who are these people you speak of that are actually doing this, by the way?)

The 'dumbed down generation' as you so eloquently put it, frequently complain about the atrocities that you have mentioned. I'm not sure how you would know either way... Have you got a good sample size of these thick-as-shit, millennial loonie liberals in your social circle that you can vox pop on the subject?

Hopefully you can come back and post a chart with your results after you've conducted your research.

Getting back to the issue at hand, not wanting innocent children to be murdered in their classrooms every year shouldn't be a f**king discussion.

Dunblane turned out to be the pivotal moment in gun control in the UK - why shouldn't the public of a nation that hasn't had a school shooting in over 20 years, thanks to changes in our gun laws, be able to say that they think another nation has got their priorities completely arse backwards in regards to gun control? (This is usually when someone says that the USA's history is more entrenched in gun culture/wars so it wouldn't work... Let's just skip that bit by saying Germany have had 4 mass shootings in 20 years, the USA have had 2 in the last 24 hours!)

The ones who talk about tyranny and constitutional rights clearly care more about history and tradition than the lives of innocent civilians living in a different world to the one when independence was declared in the US over 200 years ago! They can go **** themselves... Hopefully with a bayonet rifle.

Do you actually want people with whom you disagree to **** themselves with a bayonet rifle? The irony of you condemning gun violence in the USA while wishing it on people that disagree with you on a football message board.

America’s foreign policy under Obama and SOS Clinton has resulted in the deaths of millions of innocents. That figure dwarfs the number of gun honicides in the USA. Most of those deaths are gang related. Of course every death is tragic and spree shootings are terrible but we have terrorism here too with our strict gun laws. We also had Derek Bird killing at least 10 people with a shotgun in 2010. Even if the US introduced much stricter gun laws criminals would continue to use illicit guns, and spree shooters would use legal shotguns and hunting rifles.

Not every problem has a solution. Spree shootings are a social/cultural problem in the US that will not go away by restricting gun sales. Entrenched political positions in a polarised population are giving crazy people the ‘justification” to commit these deeds with a ready audience on the web/social media to cement their notoriety.

Back to your wish for me and other CCMB members to kill ourselves in a gruesome way. It is an absolutely disgusting thing to write and if you feel no shame about writing it then you are clearly deranged.

[Heisenberg]

Do you actually want people with whom you disagree to **** themselves with a bayonet rifle? The irony of you condemning gun violence in the USA while wishing it on people that disagree with you on a football message board.

America’s foreign policy under Obama and SOS Clinton has resulted in the deaths of millions of innocents. That figure dwarfs the number of gun honicides in the USA. Most of those deaths are gang related. Of course every death is tragic and spree shootings are terrible but we have terrorism here too with our strict gun laws. We also had Derek Bird killing at least 10 people with a shotgun in 2010. Even if the US introduced much stricter gun laws criminals would continue to use illicit guns, and spree shooters would use legal shotguns and hunting rifles.

Not every problem has a solution. Spree shootings are a social/cultural problem in the US that will not go away by restricting gun sales. Entrenched political positions in a polarised population are giving crazy people the ‘justification” to commit these deeds with a ready audience on the web/social media to cement their notoriety.

Back to your wish for me and other CCMB members to kill ourselves in a gruesome way. It is an absolutely disgusting thing to write and if you feel no shame about writing it then you are clearly deranged.

F**king hell. You've gone from missing the point to being offended in a flash there.

Why is the trope of "there will still be murders without strict gun controls" always trotted out? Of course there will... but will the numbers be significantly fewer with tighter restrictions on purchasing and owning guns? The answer is a resounding yes. How many people would have been killed this weekend in the States if those terrorists didn't have automatic weapons which no civilian has any legitimate cause to carry? Even if they were just carrying handguns, the mortalilty rate could have been reduced. Spree shootings would also be reduced if these right-wing murderers only had "shotguns" or "hunting rifles". In the time it would take to shoot and reload weapons of their caliber, these shooters could get get off an entire magazine, potentially killing dozens of people.

Advocates of gun control aren't expecting to end shootings or murders - it's about reducing them to a level where we're not reading about innocent people being gunned down while they're going about their lives on a regular basis.

If there were tighter gun controls, that would mean a reduction in the production of firearms - which, logically, would make it harder to purchase one (legally or illegally).

Since you're so troubled by my remark - of course I don't wish that upon you... but if you genuinely think that history and tradition is more important than reducing the loss of innocent lives, then the 'go f**k yourself' part still stands.

[Wales-Bales]

F**king hell. You've gone from missing the point to being offended in a flash there.

Why is the trope of "there will still be murders without strict gun controls" always trotted out? Of course there will... but will the numbers be significantly fewer with tighter restrictions on purchasing and owning guns? The answer is a resounding yes. How many people would have been killed this weekend in the States if those terrorists didn't have automatic weapons which no civilian has any legitimate cause to carry? Even if they were just carrying handguns, the mortalilty rate could have been reduced. Spree shootings would also be reduced if these right-wing murderers only had "shotguns" or "hunting rifles". In the time it would take to shoot and reload weapons of their caliber, these shooters could get get off an entire magazine, potentially killing dozens of people.

Advocates of gun control aren't expecting to end shootings or murders - it's about reducing them to a level where we're not reading about innocent people being gunned down while they're going about their lives on a regular basis.

If there were tighter gun controls, that would mean a reduction in the production of firearms - which, logically, would make it harder to purchase one (legally or illegally).

Since you're so troubled by my remark - of course I don't wish that upon you... but if you genuinely think that history and tradition is more important than reducing the loss of innocent lives, then the 'go f**k yourself' part still stands.

Are you sure they are both right wing?

[RonnieBird]

The irony of telling people what subject they are allowed an opinion on in the same breath as accusing others of being against freedom of speech (who are these people you speak of that are actually doing this, by the way?)

The 'dumbed down generation' as you so eloquently put it, frequently complain about the atrocities that you have mentioned. I'm not sure how you would know either way... Have you got a good sample size of these thick-as-shit, millennial loonie liberals in your social circle that you can vox pop on the subject?

Hopefully you can come back and post a chart with your results after you've conducted your research.

Getting back to the issue at hand, not wanting innocent children to be murdered in their classrooms every year shouldn't be a f**king discussion.

Dunblane turned out to be the pivotal moment in gun control in the UK - why shouldn't the public of a nation that hasn't had a school shooting in over 20 years, thanks to changes in our gun laws, be able to say that they think another nation has got their priorities completely arse backwards in regards to gun control? (This is usually when someone says that the USA's history is more entrenched in gun culture/wars so it wouldn't work... Let's just skip that bit by saying Germany have had 4 mass shootings in 20 years, the USA have had 2 in the last 24 hours!)

The ones who talk about tyranny and constitutional rights clearly care more about history and tradition than the lives of innocent civilians living in a different world to the one when independence was declared in the US over 200 years ago! They can go **** themselves... Hopefully with a bayonet rifle.

Such hysterical anger !
I didn’t tell anyone what opinions they can have.
Some people might think liberty is even more important than safety- ever considered that ?

I can’t even de cypher the stuff about vox pops and it’s not implicit in protecting the Constitution that you want people to kill anyone.

It’s only the dumbed down generation who think charts and graphs are a substitute for common sense or logical thinking so no I won’t bother with that bollocks.

You don’t seem to grasp that there are so many guns in the USA which is a big place that it’d take 100 years of gun control before you’d reduce gun crimes.

Bit freaky wishing people harm because they said something you didn’t like on a message board really!

[Heisenberg]

Such hysterical anger !
I didn’t tell anyone what opinions they can have.
Some people might think liberty is even more important than safety- ever considered that ?

I can’t even de cypher the stuff about vox pops and it’s not implicit in protecting the Constitution that you want people to kill anyone.

It’s only the dumbed down generation who think charts and graphs are a substitute for common sense or logical thinking so no I won’t bother with that bollocks.

You don’t seem to grasp that there are so many guns in the USA which is a big place that it’d take 100 years of gun control before you’d reduce gun crimes.

Bit freaky wishing people harm because they said something you didn’t like on a message board really!

The vox pop and charts thing wasn't a real challenge for you. Someone of your self-professed intelligence and ability to think logically should surely be able to understand obvious sarcasm. I said it in relation to your comment: "We don't hear the dumbed down generation complaining about countries where they execute homosexuals and adulterers , prevent females going to school or perform genocide , but they're incandescent with rage that a free country allows its citizens personal responsibility and freedom from state intervention before any crime has been committed ."

I'd like to know how many of these people you actually know to even be aware of what they say or believe. It's the usual shit espoused by those who can't back up their own arguments so they invent a new one, with a nice side of whataboutism. If the dumbed down generation were complaining about the things that you mentioned (which they very obviously do), which alt-right website or news channel that you so obviously frequent would you be able to access that information from? (see, I can generalise too).

It would take 100 years to reduce gun crimes?! To just reduce it... really? Even as little as not having more than one mass shooting every single day? (There have been 253 confirmed mass shootings (four or more people being shot) so far this year in the States - we're on day 216).

Even if something took a long time to fix, is it not worth even trying? (isn't that the motto of the Brexiteers?)

[RonnieBird]

The vox pop and charts thing wasn't a real challenge for you. Someone of your self-professed intelligence and ability to think logically should surely be able to understand obvious sarcasm. I said it in relation to your comment: "We don't hear the dumbed down generation complaining about countries where they execute homosexuals and adulterers , prevent females going to school or perform genocide , but they're incandescent with rage that a free country allows its citizens personal responsibility and freedom from state intervention before any crime has been committed ."

I'd like to know how many of these people you actually know to even be aware of what they say or believe. It's the usual shit espoused by those who can't back up their own arguments so they invent a new one, with a nice side of whataboutism. If the dumbed down generation were complaining about the things that you mentioned (which they very obviously do), which alt-right website or news channel that you so obviously frequent would you be able to access that information from? (see, I can generalise too).

It would take 100 years to reduce gun crimes?! To just reduce it... really? Even as little as not having more than one mass shooting every single day? (There have been 253 confirmed mass shootings (four or more people being shot) so far this year in the States - we're on day 216).

Even if something took a long time to fix, is it not worth even trying? (isn't that the motto of the Brexiteers?)

My motto is "Dieu et mon droit" actually. Can't speak for anyone else.

Look, I must offer you respect for putting your point as logically as is possible with the material available and without the rudeness which is very common here, ( don't mind anyone taking the piss though, please don't think I'm that precious).

It's kind of unstructured with respect so it's hard to answer concisely. Firstly, I don't think I've ever particularly professed intelligence, but more importantly ,generalisation is a very effective and important human ability without which we wouldn't have survived, so don't knock it - it's only been denounced quite recently by this intolerant dumbed down generation I spoke of.

As you get older you eventually speak to lots and lots of people and do stuff yourself during which you tend to reach conclusions which are probably more reliable than news channels and polls because you know they're true. I'm sure you're right that some of these kids occasionally complain about third world brutalities, ( after all , they complain about everything ), but we don't get this constant withering fire of protest about - for example- terrorist and other attacks in Pakistan where deaths are regularly numbered in hundreds , that we hear about gun laws in the World's leading democracy.

You don't have to start compiling statistics on it because it'd be hard to avoid noticing it.

I'm not quite sure what an alt right website is, but I think you must have been reading an alt wrong one. Best not to take too much notice of any of them though really because they've all got an agenda.

It's vital really to be suspicious of all " news and information " channels and services.

All I'm concerned with is the truth as far as I can discern it and you may see it differently. You almost certainly won't think any of that stuff in 20 years time by the way, but I don't disrespect or dislike you for forming your own opinions and whether I happen to agree or not I'm very keen on preserving your ability to express them insofar as that idea still exists in the U.K.

Without getting too complex ,there are very good reasons for the 2nd amendment and in my opinion they outweigh the unintended harmful consequences . Someone said something like, " Those who give up their liberties in exchange for security will end up losing both and deserving neither ".
I tend to think that if you went into a bit you'd probably agree, and probably will in the future , but in the mean time I don't think we have to be angry with the other because we see things a bit differently. I'm sure we both only want the best outcome.

[Heisenberg]

I didn’t tell anyone what opinions they can have.

I find it remarkable that so many people here think they've got some right to dictate to the USA that they should change their constitution.

Umm... I think this counts.

[RonnieBird]

Umm... I think this counts.

Well you're wrong. An opinion isn't a right to decide and I said that I find it remarkable, not ban it.
Is English perhaps a second language to you ?

[Heisenberg]

Well you're wrong. An opinion isn't a right to decide and I said that I find it remarkable, not ban it.
Is English perhaps a second language to you ?

Perhaps it is, because I'm not understanding you at all. People were sharing their opinions on gun control and what they believe should be done in relation to it - not declaring their right to decide on what the US govt do. Please signpost me to where one person has said that what you're suggesting has been posted. If you can't do that, I suggest you try to refrain from making things up in future.

Since I know that it's only opinions that have been shared on this topic, not posters declaring anything about their rights to decide (or whatever else you may wish to suggest) - the fact that you were explicitly linking the same people as being against freedom of speech is definitely ironic when you were also saying that they have no right to suggest what America should or shouldn't do.

[Wales-Bales]

Perhaps it is, because I'm not understanding you at all. People were sharing their opinions on gun control and what they believe should be done in relation to it - not declaring their right to decide on what the US govt do. Please signpost me to where one person has said that what you're suggesting has been posted. If you can't do that, I suggest you try to refrain from making things up in future.

Since I know that it's only opinions that have been shared on this topic, not posters declaring anything about their rights to decide (or whatever else you may wish to suggest) - the fact that you were explicitly linking the same people as being against freedom of speech is definitely ironic when you were also saying that they have no right to suggest what America should or shouldn't do.

You did say they were right wing murderers, so I assume you checked your facts and didn't make any of it up?

[surge]

Such hysterical anger !
I didn’t tell anyone what opinions they can have.
Some people might think liberty is even more important than safety- ever considered that ?

It’s only the dumbed down generation who think charts and graphs are a substitute for common sense or logical thinking so no I won’t bother with that bollocks.

If you have time please listen to this: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/659...e-the-next-one

The impact of gun violence doesn't end when the UK stops talking about what is happening in the USA (typically 4-5 days after an attack until the next one), instead it just carries on darkening people's lives and this impact is aided by those who are saying "now is not the time to talk about it" each time the conversation is started. I'm not sure how you can tell a parent who has lost a child at their school that liberty is greater than safety but if you feel comfortable in doing so then fair enough.