Arm our officers

[lardy]

was he shot by " BAD Lowly paid civil servant meathead bobby's with superiority-complex who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others " ( in C.C words )

or

shot by Officers who made mistakes at a time of heightened security worries after the July London bombings and being mistaken for one of the Failed bombers from the day before


I am of the belief it was the 2nd statement

The second, but I'm not sure how it helps your argument. If officers who were, presumably, selected to be armed because of their strong abilities can make fatal errors in stressful and difficult situations - doesn't it seem logical that weaker officers would make similar mistakes more often?

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

The second, but I'm not sure how it helps your argument. If officers who were, presumably, selected to be armed because of their strong abilities can make fatal errors in stressful and difficult situations - doesn't it seem logical that weaker officers would make similar mistakes more often?

He's basically arguing against himself at this point.

He's advocating the training of police officers in the use of firearms by using an example of a time when officers trained in the use of firearms shot an innocent man.

[blue matt]

He's basically arguing against himself at this point.

He's advocating the training of police officers in the use of firearms by using an example of a time when officers trained in the use of firearms shot an innocent man.

I guess when you make a mistake, you post a picture of a lorry getting stuck under a bridge on a haulage companies FB page, yet these Police officers in the case of Jean de Menzies made a mistake the day after a failed bombing attempt and shot the wrong guy, mistakes were made, the whole procedure has been tightened up, yet we know they will make a mistake again, people do

so thats another bad mark against the " BAD Lowly paid civil servant meathead bobby's with superiority-complex who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others " Eh

[Packerman]

I guess when you make a mistake, you post a picture of a lorry getting stuck under a bridge on a haulage companies FB page, yet these Police officers in the case of Jean de Menzies made a mistake the day after a failed bombing attempt and shot the wrong guy, mistakes were made, the whole procedure has been tightened up, yet we know they will make a mistake again, people do

so thats another bad mark against the " BAD Lowly paid civil servant meathead bobby's with superiority-complex who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others " Eh

The whole Menezes incident was a tragic **** up, the amazing thing is the woman in charge is about to be the commissioner !!

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

I guess when you make a mistake, you post a picture of a lorry getting stuck under a bridge on a haulage companies FB page, yet these Police officers in the case of Jean de Menzies made a mistake the day after a failed bombing attempt and shot the wrong guy, mistakes were made, the whole procedure has been tightened up, yet we know they will make a mistake again, people do

so thats another bad mark against the " BAD Lowly paid civil servant meathead bobby's with superiority-complex who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others " Eh

I don't even know what point you're trying to argue any more, all I know is that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good and none of your daft examples or endless quoting of my comments will change that.

[blue matt]

I don't even know what point you're trying to argue any more, all I know is that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good and none of your daft examples or endless quoting of my comments will change that.

My point is that i think that arming more police ( then ultimately all ) would give the police a even playing field to do the job they need to do

so you know " that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good ", How do you know that ? ? ? ?? how can you know that ? ? ??

[Colonel Cærdiffi]

My point is that i think that arming more police ( then ultimately all ) would give the police a even playing field to do the job they need to do

so you know " that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good ", How do you know that ? ? ? ?? how can you know that ? ? ??

Well you've already had one example with the Menezes incident. A police officer is killed with a knife and you want to give guns to thousands of people and yet an innocent man is shot by police and you've got all manner of excuses for it.

You're just inviting a police state under which the general public would be completely unable to counter. We're already under surveillance, our rights to congregate and protest are getting curtailed and I don't see arming the police as a good thing for everyday folk in the long run.

I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.

Also, if thousands of new firearms start flooding in some of them will find their way into the hands of criminals. Corruption exists within the police force whether you like it or not. The moment one of these criminals uses a gun on someone, the whole experiment of arming the police would have failed.

Again, I urge you to ask the police officers you know if they 100% trust every officer they've met with a firearm, you might just find that they've probably all come across some of the more hot-headed members of the force who shouldn't be trusted with that kind of responsibility, with or without training.

[GRUMPYS DEN]

Gave up on the thread somewhat when Carediffi and Tandy were butting heads to satisfy their ego's but I am surprised there hasn't been more mention of arming the police with taser's.Certainly not in favour of arming them fully but may be time they all carried a taser.

[blue matt]

Well you've already had one example with the Menezes incident. A police officer is killed with a knife and you want to give guns to thousands of people and yet an innocent man is shot by police and you've got all manner of excuses for it.

Not my excuses, they made mistakes, procedures have been changed, they hope that they will stop incidents like Jean de Menzies happening, which was almost 12 years ago, maybe the changes have worked ?? ?

You're just inviting a police state under which the general public would be completely unable to counter. We're already under surveillance, our rights to congregate and protest are getting curtailed and I don't see arming the police as a good thing for everyday folk in the long run.

I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.

and here we have the issue, the paranoia, Oh the goverment want us to be under a police state, they are spying on us, i dont want my rights taken away etc etc you carry on with that, i will just live my life and see where it goes if they want to know i am going surfing in a few weeks time, fine, if they want to know i am on my holidays again to the US, no drama, hell they can even see the pictures on FB if they want

I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.

i do trust the police in the way they attempt to keep me safe, solving crimes and trying to keep the bad people ( you know, the real bad people ) at bay, sure we have corrupt people, but every way of life does, naive ? ? ? maybe

Also, if thousands of new firearms start flooding in some of them will find their way into the hands of criminals. Corruption exists within the police force whether you like it or not. The moment one of these criminals uses a gun on someone, the whole experiment of arming the police would have failed.

really, you think police guns will be floating around the pubs yea right

Again, I urge you to ask the police officers you know if they 100% trust every officer they've met with a firearm, you might just find that they've probably all come across some of the more hot-headed members of the force who shouldn't be trusted with that kind of responsibility, with or without training.

I will, it will be tomorrow, i thought we were going for a Coffee today, it wasnt, its tomorrow, but as i said, whatever his reply, you will not believe him, as you already have all the facts about the Police

[Organ Morgan.]

Well you've already had one example with the Menezes incident. A police officer is killed with a knife and you want to give guns to thousands of people and yet an innocent man is shot by police and you've got all manner of excuses for it.

You're just inviting a police state under which the general public would be completely unable to counter. We're already under surveillance, our rights to congregate and protest are getting curtailed and I don't see arming the police as a good thing for everyday folk in the long run.

I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.

Also, if thousands of new firearms start flooding in some of them will find their way into the hands of criminals. Corruption exists within the police force whether you like it or not. The moment one of these criminals uses a gun on someone, the whole experiment of arming the police would have failed.

Again, I urge you to ask the police officers you know if they 100% trust every officer they've met with a firearm, you might just find that they've probably all come across some of the more hot-headed members of the force who shouldn't be trusted with that kind of responsibility, with or without training.

You have form for making remarks like those. Instead of indulging in critical thinking, invest that time viewing some of the many The Housewives of shows and the like. You'll soon become less sceptical of all things Nanny.

[blue matt]

The second, but I'm not sure how it helps your argument. If officers who were, presumably, selected to be armed because of their strong abilities can make fatal errors in stressful and difficult situations - doesn't it seem logical that weaker officers would make similar mistakes more often?

the mistakes were made from the top down, not just the guys who took the shots, i am sure you must have read the report

since that fatal day the procedure's for taking the shot have changed ( surprised you have read about it )

you mention weaker officers, the rules of combat could be set fairly easy, a guy is coming towards you with a knife, take the shot, a guy with a knife is stabbing someone, give the warning and then if they do not stop, take the shot

the more technical stuff, as in the case of Jean de Menzies would still be carried out by specialist teams, you appear ( i guess on purpose ) be confusing the two, a specialist FA officers and a armed Police Officer just using his gun for protection and to stop terrorist activities, once again, body cams will tell us the story and the police will learn from that

[lardy]

the mistakes were made from the top down, not just the guys who took the shots, i am sure you must have read the report

since that fatal day the procedure's for taking the shot have changed ( surprised you have read about it )

you mention weaker officers, the rules of combat could be set fairly easy, a guy is coming towards you with a knife, take the shot, a guy with a knife is stabbing someone, give the warning and then if they do not stop, take the shot

the more technical stuff, as in the case of Jean de Menzies would still be carried out by specialist teams, you appear ( i guess on purpose ) be confusing the two, a specialist FA officers and a armed Police Officer just using his gun for protection and to stop terrorist activities, once again, body cams will tell us the story and the police will learn from that

I think you're missing the point (perhaps on purpose) that arming all police officers is a turning point, there's no going back once it's done. So the gun is just there for protection and to stop terrorists - how many times will an average officer come across a terrorist? None of the police officers I know have ever been in a situation where they have needed a gun for protection.

You talk about someone being stabbed with a knife - I'm sure you remember (perhaps you forgot on purpose) the 'you ain't no muslim bruv' incident. The police successfully tasered him. Didn't need a gun. Otherwise, yesterday's terrorist attacked with a car. Arming officers isn't going to stop that exceedingly rare occurence.

If anything, the fact that the guy resorted to using a car and a knife rather than a bomb and an automatic is a testament to the good work done by our intelligence services. That's our best weapon, prevention, not chasing after them with a gun after the event.

[Charlie]

I think you're missing the point (perhaps on purpose) that arming all police officers is a turning point, there's no going back once it's done. So the gun is just there for protection and to stop terrorists - how many times will an average officer come across a terrorist? None of the police officers I know have ever been in a situation where they have needed a gun for protection.

You talk about someone being stabbed with a knife - I'm sure you remember (perhaps you forgot on purpose) the 'you ain't no muslim bruv' incident. The police successfully tasered him. Didn't need a gun. Otherwise, yesterday's terrorist attacked with a car. Arming officers isn't going to stop that exceedingly rare occurence.

If anything, the fact that the guy resorted to using a car and a knife rather than a bomb and an automatic is a testament to the good work done by our intelligence services. That's our best weapon, prevention, not chasing after them with a gun after the event.

This 100%

Its like the American idea of counteracting guns is to allow more people access to guns, its mental. That can only end up badly.
This is an interesting read.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ain?CMP=twt_gu

No amount of guns on the streets will stop someone targeting a group of people with a car as a weapon.