The most spineless PM in living memory?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I agree. Most credible opposition in 10 years. Give Starmer and co a chance and they will hold the Tories properly to account. Which has to be good for our democracy.

Starmer is a barrister who has fought numerous legal cases and he seems to be a man of principle

Unlike blair who after a decent start turned out to be a war mongering lunatic

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Starmer is a barrister who has fought numerous legal cases and he seems to be a man of principle

Unlike blair who after a decent start turned out to be a war mongering lunatic

I'm by and large anti-war, anti-violence, sort things out by peaceful and diplomatic means.

Thatcher got huge support for the Falklands. It's reckoned that it saved her premiership. She also was PM when we went to war in Iraq the first time. I can't remember her being vilified at the time.

Blair did the same as Thatcher and got vilified. I remember the time that Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. That symbolism was well received in the UK and, from memory, was well celebrated.

It strikes me that it's a bit odd that Thatcher never really suffered the public outrage years later for her wars, yet Blair did. Perhaps I'm missing something. BTW I'm not saying that I agree with Blair's actions but it's arguable that the whole middle eastern spiral started long before he came along.

[splott parker]

I'm by and large anti-war, anti-violence, sort things out by peaceful and diplomatic means.

Thatcher got huge support for the Falklands. It's reckoned that it saved her premiership. She also was PM when we went to war in Iraq the first time. I can't remember her being vilified at the time.

Blair did the same as Thatcher and got vilified. I remember the time that Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. That symbolism was well received in the UK and, from memory, was well celebrated.

It strikes me that it's a bit odd that Thatcher never really suffered the public outrage years later for her wars, yet Blair did. Perhaps I'm missing something. BTW I'm not saying that I agree with Blair's actions but it's arguable that the whole middle eastern spiral started long before he came along.

Being PM though he had the opportunity to step back away from the shitstorm.

[Tuerto]

Being PM though he had the opportunity to step back away from the shitstorm.

Blair adopted US foreign policy, Thatcher didn't, by the way, the UK Government had tried to get rid of Las Malvinas on a couple of occasions before the Argentine Invasion. What we are seeing now in the Middle East is a direct result of UK and American Foreign policy. We completely de stabilised an already unstable region by invading, occupying and attempting to put in place our own and more convenient type of democracy and allowed factions who hated each over to rise up and subsequently created a civil war where people are still being murdered to this day. Sadly, it's not news anymore, people are bored of it. The Tories also supported the invasion and the Lib Dems supported 'Our Troops' once the invasion had started.

These criminal actions by Blair and Bush have completely destabilised the whole world, born out of the invasion was ISIS and their merry followers and a rise in islamophobia and the fascist right. The UK's involvement led to huge amounts of refugees, death and suffering, nobody was spared which probably couldn't be said about that Evil bastard Saddam Hussein who we loved dealing with during the mid to late eighties. It has affected politics in the UK as well, a rise in the neo right, racism and xenophobia, leading to post colonial fallout in the most deprived areas that labour should have helped and supported, which always results in reactionary behaviour like voting to leave the EU because of foreigners and electing Boris-Same in the states with Trump.

[CCFCC3PO]

I'm by and large anti-war, anti-violence, sort things out by peaceful and diplomatic means.

Thatcher got huge support for the Falklands. It's reckoned that it saved her premiership. She also was PM when we went to war in Iraq the first time. I can't remember her being vilified at the time.

Blair did the same as Thatcher and got vilified. I remember the time that Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. That symbolism was well received in the UK and, from memory, was well celebrated.

It strikes me that it's a bit odd that Thatcher never really suffered the public outrage years later for her wars, yet Blair did. Perhaps I'm missing something. BTW I'm not saying that I agree with Blair's actions but it's arguable that the whole middle eastern spiral started long before he came along.

I think Blair's war was founded on a proven lie. Thatcher's wars were the results of an invasion on the Falkland Islands, and later an Iraqi invasion into Kuwait (although I thought that was John Major, but on checking it was one of Maggie's last acts as PM and I remember my dad cynically saying she was only doing it to retain power). Blair's war was based on WMDs that didn't exist. Thatcher's wars were justifiable.

[CCFCC3PO]

It's amazing how well the cabinet are defending Cummings. It's a shame they weren't anywhere near as diligent when defending care homes hey?

[Kitman]

It's amazing how well the cabinet are defending Cummings. It's a shame they weren't anywhere near as diligent when defending care homes hey?

I started off feeling sorry for Schapps on Marr just then, being chucked under ironically a bus. But his staunch defence of Cummings at the end was sickening

[xsnaggle]

I'm by and large anti-war, anti-violence, sort things out by peaceful and diplomatic means.

Thatcher got huge support for the Falklands. It's reckoned that it saved her premiership. She also was PM when we went to war in Iraq the first time. I can't remember her being vilified at the time.

Blair did the same as Thatcher and got vilified. I remember the time that Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled. That symbolism was well received in the UK and, from memory, was well celebrated.

It strikes me that it's a bit odd that Thatcher never really suffered the public outrage years later for her wars, yet Blair did. Perhaps I'm missing something. BTW I'm not saying that I agree with Blair's actions but it's arguable that the whole middle eastern spiral started long before he came along.

I get your point about the difference between the reaction to Thatchers wars and Blairs wars.
There was one basic difference. In both thatchers wars she was defending a country that had been unlawfully invaded, The Falklands and Kuwait.
in Blair's case he was helping to invade a sovereign country.
Big difference in the eyes of ordinary people, morally. you only need to look at the help we had in the Falklands and the number of nations involved in Kuwait to see it.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I get your point about the difference between the reaction to Thatchers wars and Blairs wars.
There was one basic difference. In both thatchers wars she was defending a country that had been unlawfully invaded, The Falklands and Kuwait.
in Blair's case he was helping to invade a sovereign country.
Big difference in the eyes of ordinary people, morally. you only need to look at the help we had in the Falklands and the number of nations involved in Kuwait to see it.

I agree with all that. It still doesn't answer the fact that when Saddam Hussein was finally overthrown, it was celebrated in the UK. I reckon that, at the time it was happening, the second Gulf war was largely supported by the public. Not by me, I might add.