UK manufacturing output at its highest for 10 years

[David Vincent]

It is a commonly perceived myth that manufacturing in the U.K. is in decline. After falling back in 2008-9, manufacturing output has grown since then as shown by this graph at the link in the OP

D141EC05-0B7A-415A-B2D6-F1B3CE9C1BF5.jpg

What’s more, since 1945 industrial production in the U.K. has increased by around 250%. Automation has led to the loss of millions of jobs but we are producing nearly three times as much now as we were at the end of WW2. This is explained in this article:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/0...uring_figures/

Which contains this graph:

5BA81B55-3FB1-4FC9-ACFD-79FF0721B18D.jpg

The article is 8 years old and, as can be seen from the first graph, UK manufacturing has grown significantly since it was published. The same is true of all other advanced countries. Britain is still the 9th biggest manufacturer of any country.

Here is a House of Commons report on the matter published last year:

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...09/SN05809.pdf

I'm surprised you believe all that rubbish. When I was a kid there was someone making something on every street. How can it be possible that we are producing three times as much as at the end of WW2 when you hardly ever meet anyone nowadays who makes anything? These stats come from surveys sent out to a sample of businesses. I imagine the surveyees just reply with any old crap that comes into their heads. This crap is then converted into whatever the government wants you to believe by impenetrable models. Our supposed wealth is all smoke and mirrors.

[severncity]

I'm surprised you believe all that rubbish. When I was a kid there was someone making something on every street. How can it be possible that we are producing three times as much as at the end of WW2 when you hardly ever meet anyone nowadays who makes anything? These stats come from surveys sent out to a sample of businesses. I imagine the surveyees just reply with any old crap that comes into their heads. This crap is then converted into whatever the government wants you to believe by impenetrable models. Our supposed wealth is all smoke and mirrors.

We consume and produce much more today than we did 70, 50 or 30 years ago. I was born in the 60s and as a child in the 70s i had one coat, one pair of shoes and very few toys. Nowadays even the poorest consumers in the developed world can afford many items of clothing and toys for their kids. In the U.K. we manufacture machinery, vehicles, pharmaceutical products, medical instruments, aircraft, beverages and plastics. These processes are highly automated do fewer people are involved.

The whole of humanity is consuming manufactured goods at an unprecedented rate and we have our niche markets - specialised products for the most part - that we produce for. Most of our goods are exported and we, in turn, import clothes, toys, consumer electronics and most of our vehicles.

[David Vincent]

We consume and produce much more today than we did 70, 50 or 30 years ago. I was born in the 60s and as a child in the 70s i had one coat, one pair of shoes and very few toys. Nowadays even the poorest consumers in the developed world can afford many items of clothing and toys for their kids. In the U.K. we manufacture machinery, vehicles, pharmaceutical products, medical instruments, aircraft, beverages and plastics. These processes are highly automated do fewer people are involved.

The whole of humanity is consuming manufactured goods at an unprecedented rate and we have our niche markets - specialised products for the most part - that we produce for. Most of our goods are exported and we, in turn, import clothes, toys, consumer electronics and most of our vehicles.

You might have had one coat, one shoe and one toy but that was very unusual. Perhaps your parents were Monists. If you compared an average UK home in the 1950s with an average home today then you would find that the 1950s house contained much more stuff, i.e. manufactured goods. The 1950s home would have had more books, more pictures on the wall, just as many toys (better made and longer lasting), a biscuit barrel, old newspapers under the setee seats, more cupboards and thousands of knick-knacks all over the place. Most of this stuff had been manufactured in the UK. Today you'd struggle to find something made in the UK in a UK house. Even many of the people have been manufactured elsewhere.

I would only believe that we are manufacturing more today in the UK if someone showed me the figures for cars, carrots, machines, coal, steel, etc. rather than some notional money value based on a dodgy survey.

[severncity]

You might have had one coat, one shoe and one toy but that was very unusual. Perhaps your parents were Monists. If you compared an average UK home in the 1950s with an average home today then you would find that the 1950s house contained much more stuff, i.e. manufactured goods. The 1950s home would have had more books, more pictures on the wall, just as many toys (better made and longer lasting), a biscuit barrel, old newspapers under the setee seats, more cupboards and thousands of knick-knacks all over the place. Most of this stuff had been manufactured in the UK. Today you'd struggle to find something made in the UK in a UK house. Even many of the people have been manufactured elsewhere.

I would only believe that we are manufacturing more today in the UK if someone showed me the figures for cars, carrots, machines, coal, steel, etc. rather than some notional money value based on a dodgy survey.

Two of the three links I posted were from the House of Commons and then ONS. Consumer goods were built to last in the past; today’s are more disposable with built-in obsolescence. There are nearly 40 million vehicles on the roads compared to under 3 million in 1945. I had a quite comfortable upbringing in a nice area and no one at that time had as many clothes and trainers as kids have today. I’m not well off but I’ve still got about 10 pairs of shoes and trainers; it is quite common for young men and women to have dozens of pairs of footwear nowadays.

It seems axiomatic to me that people consume and dispose of far more manufactured goods than in the past so if you have any statistics to counter my certainty I would be very interested to see them.

[David Vincent]

Two of the three links I posted were from the House of Commons and then ONS. Consumer goods were built to last in the past; today’s are more disposable with built-in obsolescence. There are nearly 40 million vehicles on the roads compared to under 3 million in 1945. I had a quite comfortable upbringing in a nice area and no one at that time had as many clothes and trainers as kids have today. I’m not well off but I’ve still got about 10 pairs of shoes and trainers; it is quite common for young men and women to have dozens of pairs of footwear nowadays.

It seems axiomatic to me that people consume and dispose of far more manufactured goods than in the past so if you have any statistics to counter my certainty I would be very interested to see them.

10 pairs of shoes! You have gone from one extreme to the other. I can only assume you are some sort of shoe fetishist. Nevermind, we get all sorts on here. At least you are an intelligent poster. Some of them only know they are alive because they can hear air rushing through their nostrils.

I've just looked through my Whitaker's Almanack for 1962. It's several decades since the book was last opened. Here are some UK production figures comparing 1960 and today :

Potatoes 2016 5.2 million Tonnes v 1960 7.2 million tons
Oats 2015 .8 million Tonnes v 1960 2 million tons
Vehicles 2016 1817 1960 1811k

This is just a very small sample but you can see that we were producing just as much if not more in 1960 than we are today. You will say that the vehicle totals shows that we are much more efficient today - i.e. fewer car workers. But if you look at the economy as a whole you would probably find that we were producing just as much with far fewer workers so they were more efficient then. Here are the employment totals :

Employed 2015 33 million 1960 24 million 1960
Unemployed 2017 1.4 million .3 million 1960

It could be that my samples are skewed and I am completely wrong. But all this talk about how rich we are today does not make sense to me. How is it possible that we can import millions of people from third world countries and pay them like kings according to their own standards for doing nothing when in the 1950s and 1960s you had to work like a dog just to keep your head above water? Either we were all deceived into thinking we were poor then or this new richness is an illusion. I personally think our current situation is a mixture of The Matrix and 1984.

Here are some other interesting comparisons :

UK prison population 2014 86k 1960 30k
UK murders 2016 571 1960 144

[severncity]

10 pairs of shoes! You have gone from one extreme to the other. I can only assume you are some sort of shoe fetishist. Nevermind, we get all sorts on here. At least you are an intelligent poster. Some of them only know they are alive because they can hear air rushing through their nostrils.

I've just looked through my Whitaker's Almanack for 1962. It's several decades since the book was last opened. Here are some UK production figures comparing 1960 and today :

Potatoes 2016 5.2 million Tonnes v 1960 7.2 million tons
Oats 2015 .8 million Tonnes v 1960 2 million tons
Vehicles 2016 1817 1960 1811k

This is just a very small sample but you can see that we were producing just as much if not more in 1960 than we are today. You will say that the vehicle totals shows that we are much more efficient today - i.e. fewer car workers. But if you look at the economy as a whole you would probably find that we were producing just as much with far fewer workers so they were more efficient then. Here are the employment totals :

Employed 2015 33 million 1960 24 million 1960
Unemployed 2017 1.4 million .3 million 1960

It could be that my samples are skewed and I am completely wrong. But all this talk about how rich we are today does not make sense to me. How is it possible that we can import millions of people from third world countries and pay them like kings according to their own standards for doing nothing when in the 1950s and 1960s you had to work like a dog just to keep your head above water? Either we were all deceived into thinking we were poor then or this new richness is an illusion. I personally think our current situation is a mixture of The Matrix and 1984.

Here are some other interesting comparisons :

UK prison population 2014 86k 1960 30k
UK murders 2016 571 1960 144

Potatoes aren’t counted in the manufacturing total. In 1960, according to https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...es-summary.pdf
there were 8 million vehicles on the U.K. roads, so if your production figures are correct then the U.K. must have exported the vast majority of its manufactured vehicles - which is also true today. People have multiple televisions in their homes and the proliferation of charity shops, which often have to throw away many of the donated goods, shows that consumer fetishism is rampant.

As for my shoe collection, I tend to spend £100 a year buying trainers and shoes in one purchase from Sports Direct, which I have delivered. Three or four new pairs a year (I do a lot of walking) means that I’ve always got some smart footwear. Shoes cost about £20 in the 1970s/1980s - roughly what I pay now.

As for your prison figures, it is true that serious criminality is a big problem nowadays. The breakdown of the family unit, the decline of the church, the mobility of the population (and subsequent undermining of community spirit) and immigration (as a result of which criminal gangs are more likely to form) all play their part in increased crime. But having a myriad of consumer products to envy, covet and steal has also been a cause of the rise in crime, with mobile phones and car stereos being obvious examples of such products that just weren’t around prior to the 1980s.

[the other bob wilson]

We consume and produce much more today than we did 70, 50 or 30 years ago. I was born in the 60s and as a child in the 70s i had one coat, one pair of shoes and very few toys. Nowadays even the poorest consumers in the developed world can afford many items of clothing and toys for their kids. In the U.K. we manufacture machinery, vehicles, pharmaceutical products, medical instruments, aircraft, beverages and plastics. These processes are highly automated do fewer people are involved.

The whole of humanity is consuming manufactured goods at an unprecedented rate and we have our niche markets - specialised products for the most part - that we produce for. Most of our goods are exported and we, in turn, import clothes, toys, consumer electronics and most of our vehicles.

Persuasive stuff, maybe I was wrong - you've set out one of the best arguments I've seen in favour of our continued membership of the EU there.

[severncity]

Persuasive stuff, maybe I was wrong - you've set out one of the best arguments I've seen in favour of our continued membership of the EU there.

A good argument for being in a customs union and a free trading zone, but not an endorsement of being a part of the undemocratic, unaccountable, wannabe-superstate EU.