Is Clive being racist calling folk racist

[Heathblue]

I can't speak for the other 17 million people who voted to leave in the referendum but I am not a racist unless by that you include anyone who would like to see no further immigrants coming to the UK unless they have a pre-existing, verifiable job offer, based on a points system, so that we take in those who will be able to make a positive contribution, be they fruit pickers, brain surgeons, bus drivers or whatever else we need. The exception would be refugees from war-torn places like Syria with a cap on numbers as agreed within the U.N. like the VPRS scheme whereby each country pledges to take a set number over a period of time.

However I must add that, for me, that was a secondary reason for voting leave. The main reason by a country mile was the bloated, fat-cat, gravy train, inefficient, corrupt, bottomless money pit that the EU has become. Oh yes, the EU "generously" gives grants for infrastructure projects i.e some of our money back for projects which they approve! I am old enough to remember the Common Market and that worked well, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way now and as reform appears to be impossible, it's time to say goodbye I'm afraid.

You have covered the Labour Party gravy train, what's your thoughts on the Tories

[Gofer Blue]

You have covered the Labour Party gravy train, what's your thoughts on the Tories

I'm not referring to any particular party in my post. Apart from the MEPs themselves there are the unelected commissioners, of which the Kinnocks are an example, where the expression "gravy train" hardly begins to describe the excesses. Take a read of this article: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/k...rain-xcxbdkx6r

Note: there are 28 commissioners!

In the EU parliament/commission there are 32,000 civil servants and 751 MEP’s. It costs 1.8 billion euros to run, equivalent to 2.3 million euros per MEP.

12 times a year the EU parliament moves to Strasbourg at a cost of 200 million euros. It involves moving then providing accommodation for 4000 people with all the associated documentation/files from Brussels just for 4 days, 12 times a year.

This is why I want out of the EU - the obscene extravagance of it all!

[cyril evans awaydays]

I'm not referring to any particular party in my post. Apart from the MEPs themselves there are the unelected commissioners, of which the Kinnocks are an example, where the expression "gravy train" hardly begins to describe the excesses. Take a read of this article: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/k...rain-xcxbdkx6r

Note: there are 28 commissioners!

In the EU parliament/commission there are 32,000 civil servants and 751 MEP’s. It costs 1.8 billion euros to run, equivalent to 2.3 million euros per MEP.

12 times a year the EU parliament moves to Strasbourg at a cost of 200 million euros. It involves moving then providing accommodation for 4000 people with all the associated documentation/files from Brussels just for 4 days, 12 times a year.

This is why I want out of the EU - the obscene extravagance of it all!

Oscar Wilde once called a cynic someone who knew the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I worked with and usually against the EU Commission for a good proportion of my career. I found them competent and coherent but equally risk averse, arrogant and at times spendthrift in the manner you describe.

But when making decisions, particularly major investment ones you have to look at the benefits as well as the costs. The government's own economic analysis placed in the House of Commons library after Johnson's withdrawal deal estimates that over a 15 year period the UK'S GDP will be between 2.1 and 3.9% pa smaller than if we retained membership.

The upper limit is based on low to no net inward migration from the EU of a type that a goodly proportion of leave voters would likely be comfortable with. It also factors in the financial settlement and the cessation of our net contributions. It was the least worst option on the table and if as intimated we plan to diverge away from EU standards and towards a basic free trade agreement these figures could be higher.

Using your metric that equates to an economic benefit loss of between 65 and 110 million euros per annum for each MEP. In a business case it membership on economic grounds regardless of a proportion of EU profligacy would be a no brainer.

We have to recognise that other factors were and still are at play for many people that drove the result and leave we will on 31st January for better or worse.