Coleman out..

[jon1959]

His tactical naivety found out at last by a better manager.

What tactical naivety was that?

Was it 4 at the back? Starting with Robson-Kanu then bringing Vokes on when any space disappeared? Watching Joe Allen taken out and having to find the best midfield replacement (who would you have used?)? Bringing Woodburn on mid way through the second half?

Overall I think Coleman has become better and better tactically, and grown as a manager into the best we have had for generations. He has done with Wales what Warnock did with Cardiff. Not world class, but necessary, usually effective and very impressive.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

What tactical naivety was that?

Was it 4 at the back? Starting with Robson-Kanu then bringing Vokes on when any space disappeared?

The reason the space disappeared was because they scored. We knew we needed the first goal. I think, as I said to others before the game on Sunday, that Vokes was more likely to cause problems because of his physicality. Had we got the first goal, Robson-Kanu would have been an ideal substitute to exploit gaps that Ireland would have needed to leave.

[jon1959]

The reason the space disappeared was because they scored. We knew we needed the first goal. I think, as I said to others before the game on Sunday, that Vokes was more likely to cause problems because of his physicality. Had we got the first goal, Robson-Kanu would have been an ideal substitute to exploit gaps that Ireland would have needed to leave.

I know that's why the space disappeared. Seems to me it made more sense to start with Kanu when Ireland had to try to score (and he had a very good attempt well saved) and when there would be more chance to get in behind, and when the Irish shut up shop Vokes' powerhouse approach was needed more. All about opinions but I had no problem with Coleman's starting 11.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

What tactical naivety was that?

Was it 4 at the back? Starting with Robson-Kanu then bringing Vokes on when any space disappeared? Watching Joe Allen taken out and having to find the best midfield replacement (who would you have used?)? Bringing Woodburn on mid way through the second half?

Overall I think Coleman has become better and better tactically, and grown as a manager into the best we have had for generations. He has done with Wales what Warnock did with Cardiff. Not world class, but necessary, usually effective and very impressive.

HRK just isn't good enough at international level - or indeed at Prem level. Vokes is a better player all round. We desparately need a quality striker to emerge.
Edwards for Allen, not Williams. Hell even Woodburn at that point may have made more sense.

Coleman may have got better but the fact is... he's never been all that. His Coventry side was woeful, hoofball that Warnock would have got upset by. John Beck would have loved it though. Let's not forget him getting a job in Cyprus, proclaiming that "no chairman in Britain wanted to play the way he wanted teams to play".

The reality is... Coleman came in, changed things from Speed, had a poor start. Started setting the side out the way Speed had and the results improved. He's had all the great work Speed did along with a golden generation of youngsters ( lacking a striker ). Put Coleman in at a Prem club now and let's see how long till he gets fired.

[jon1959]

HRK just isn't good enough at international level - or indeed at Prem level. Vokes is a better player all round. We desparately need a quality striker to emerge.
Edwards for Allen, not Williams. Hell even Woodburn at that point may have made more sense.

Coleman may have got better but the fact is... he's never been all that. His Coventry side was woeful, hoofball that Warnock would have got upset by. John Beck would have loved it though. Let's not forget him getting a job in Cyprus, proclaiming that "no chairman in Britain wanted to play the way he wanted teams to play".

The reality is... Coleman came in, changed things from Speed, had a poor start. Started setting the side out the way Speed had and the results improved. He's had all the great work Speed did along with a golden generation of youngsters ( lacking a striker ). Put Coleman in at a Prem club now and let's see how long till he gets fired.

My recollection was that he tried to carry on with the Gary Speed team and shape and lost a lot of games. He then decided to do things his own way and we started to get some success. Maybe I have misremembered.

Whatever, I think he has been a great manager for Wales, but his time is up and there will now be a change.

I don't buy into a lot of the 'golden generation' hype - Wales are clearly limited and lack depth - but I don't like the easy knocking that starts after a disappointing result like tonight.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I don't buy into a lot of the 'golden generation' hype - Wales are clearly limited and lack depth - but I don't like the easy knocking that starts after a disappointing result like tonight.

Interesting that we're clearly limited when we might even still be top seeds for the next Euro qualifiers (perhaps doubtful after tonight). We're comfortably in the world's top 20 and much credit must go to Coleman for that.

Tonight we got a few things wrong, Coleman included in my opinion. That happens. It's gutting when it happens in a game like this, but ultimately that's cost us.

[jon1959]

Interesting that we're clearly limited when we might even still be top seeds for the next Euro qualifiers (perhaps doubtful after tonight). We're comfortably in the world's top 20 and much credit must go to Coleman for that.

Tonight we got a few things wrong, Coleman included in my opinion. That happens. It's gutting when it happens in a game like this, but ultimately that's cost us.

Aren't we limited? Of course we are. We are picking from a pretty small pool of players compared to most of the teams around us in the rankings. Apart from Bale (and Allen and Ramsey as next tier players) we have a lack of depth and quality in depth offset by organisation and team spirit. Nothing wrong with that - and it can take a team a long way - but daft to pretend otherwise.

When Joe Allen went off what were the options? Williams or Edwards realistically.... or would you have brought on someone like David Brooks in that situation? Ledley has had a few games for Derby but is usually a 60-70 minute player these days. Ireland were even more limited (even without Bale) but found a way to steal the win.

I'm disappointed but still very proud of this team/squad and hopeful that we can improve in both quality and nous - and get better at qualifying for major tournaments in the future.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Aren't we limited? Of course we are. We are picking from a pretty small pool of players compared to most of the teams around us in the rankings. Apart from Bale (and Allen and Ramsey as next tier players) we have a lack of depth and quality in depth offset by organisation and team spirit. Nothing wrong with that - and it can take a team a long way - but daft to pretend otherwise.

When Joe Allen went off what were the options? Williams or Edwards realistically.... or would you have brought on someone like David Brooks in that situation? Ledley has had a few games for Derby but is usually a 60-70 minute player these days. Ireland were even more limited (even without Bale) but found a way to steal the win.

I'm disappointed but still very proud of this team/squad and hopeful that we can improve in both quality and nous - and get better at qualifying for major tournaments in the future.

When Allen went off Dave Edwards was the only option. Someone to win the ball in the middle and feed our creative players, not drop Ramsey deeper and nullify him. Coleman has to realise that Ramsey isn't a defensively minded midfielder. Edwards never lets Wales down, not that I'm suggesting he's Joe Allen, but we needed grit and steel. Had Ledley needed to come off late on, then Williams could have replaced Ledley when legs were tiring.