Theresa May

[the other bob wilson]

All Corbyn has done is to make the Labour party about the people that is should represent. The divisions have been caused by The Tory Lite amongst the Labour Party, like that A grade Twat Chuka Umunna We haven't had a serious Left Wing Party in this country for many years. I think it's great, somebody who actually has some integrity and who will help the poorest and most vulnerable.

The notion of a "proper" Labour party after the New Labour phase was an attractive one, but the leadership has shown itself to be weak and too easy a target for the right wing media. There are posters on here whose political views I have plenty of time for who are adamant that antisemitism is not an issue in the Labour party, but my own view is that if there was a genuine will at the top of the party to tackle the issue head on, it would not be the festering sore to the party that it is today. Similarly, the way Labour has tied itself up in knots (mainly because of its leaders views on Europe being at odds with those of the majority of its members and MPs) has seen their "all things to all men" approach bring about a situation, which will, almost certainly, lead to confirmation tomorrow that they are almost an irrelevance as men, and women, desert them in droves - all at a time when it is predicted that the governing party are going to finish fifth in the poll.

[jon1959]

The notion of a "proper" Labour party after the New Labour phase was an attractive one, but the leadership has shown itself to be weak and too easy a target for the right wing media. There are posters on here whose political views I have plenty of time for who are adamant that antisemitism is not an issue in the Labour party, but my own view is that if there was a genuine will at the top of the party to tackle the issue head on, it would not be the festering sore to the party that it is today. Similarly, the way Labour has tied itself up in knots (mainly because of its leaders views on Europe being at odds with those of the majority of its members and MPs) has seen their "all things to all men" approach bring about a situation, which will, almost certainly, lead to confirmation tomorrow that they are almost an irrelevance as men, and women, desert them in droves - all at a time when it is predicted that the governing party are going to finish fifth in the poll.

I think the Labour anti-semitism 'crisis' is partly manufactured, although there are clearly some real examples of appalling racism.

I think the position of Labour as the main opposition with mainly Remain members and MPs, but with a large minority of its (mainly historic) supporters backing Leave was always going to put it in a difficult position - unlike smaller parties who could ignore half the country and adopt a clean position.

However, I agree that the Labour Party leadership has at times been weak and indecisive. They are very inexperienced, and the leader never wanted the role - although he has since grown into it a bit in that he has stopped offering up as many easy targets for hostile media and internal opponents to shoot at.

Despite the risk of splitting the Labour Party, the leadership has been fence sitting and watching the Tories implode for too long. A stronger and more experienced opposition would probably have been more effective in 2018. However, that doesn't magic away the parliamentary arithmetic or Theresa May's personality and style.

Maybe Labour could have damaged her more and brought her to a compromise offer without her own party dumping her? But that could only have been around a 'soft' Brexit (customs union etc.), and would also have risked splitting the Labour Party (even though that may have been in line with conference policy).

[the other bob wilson]

I think the Labour anti-semitism 'crisis' is partly manufactured, although there are clearly some real examples of appalling racism.

I think the position of Labour as the main opposition with mainly Remain members and MPs, but with a large minority of its (mainly historic) supporters backing Leave was always going to put it in a difficult position - unlike smaller parties who could ignore half the country and adopt a clean position.

However, I agree that the Labour Party leadership has at times been weak and indecisive. They are very inexperienced, and the leader never wanted the role - although he has since grown into it a bit in that he has stopped offering up as many easy targets for hostile media and internal opponents to shoot at.

Despite the risk of splitting the Labour Party, the leadership has been fence sitting and watching the Tories implode for too long. A stronger and more experienced opposition would probably have been more effective in 2018. However, that doesn't magic away the parliamentary arithmetic or Theresa May's personality and style.

Maybe Labour could have damaged her more and brought her to a compromise offer without her own party dumping her? But that could only have been around a 'soft' Brexit (customs union etc.), and would also have risked splitting the Labour Party (even though that may have been in line with conference policy).

I think that's a fair analysis Jon, but with regard to your last paragraph, I did quite a long post on the politics forum outlining why I believe that Europe is/has been a much bigger problem for the Conservatives than for Labour. While I accept that it would mean losing votes and probably members from the Leave side of the argument, my instinct (admittedly, I'm far from infallible in that department!) is that Labour would handle a change of approach to favour becoming a "remain" party far better than the Tories would and so feel that they are missing a trick so to speak - again, I'm talking instinct here, but it seems to me that the current leader is the biggest obstruction to such a thing happening.