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Thread: Arm our officers

  1. #26

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    that area of london would have had Armed Officers walking around on patrol and they have a massive amount of trained officers ready to use arms, the ARU in central london is a fair size

    Now imagine something similar happening in a sleepy small town in Gloucester or Somerset, the ARU might take 30 mins to arrive on the scene and then it will likely only be 6 of them, think of the damage someone could do in 30 mins a scary thought

    i know the government has said they are training up more AR officers, but not enough and not fast enough
    I would suppose the numbers of officers in London is vastly different even to the number in a smaller city and therefore before you have "massive amount of trained officers ready to use arms" you firstly would need to find a large number of new recruits and pay for these contracts.

    If we think about what this incident was (a small and limited number of attackers in a concentrated area) then we may compare it to the Tunisia beach attacks. The greater presences of armed forces in this previous incident did not stop the attacker any more quickly that today.

    Whatever the decision I would agree with the poster who suggested that a few hours after an attack is probably not the time for major policy change.

  2. #27

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    Are you kidding?

    Read my post again and ask yourself if putting thousands of guns into the hands of lowly paid civil servants who often choose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others is the correct solution to one guy with a knife?

    No looking at the US required for that conundrum.
    no

    because its easy to use the US and its armed officers are a example to win the " we do not want to arm our police " argument

    I know a 5 armed police officers, 2 current, 2 trained and 1 just retired ( about a month ago )

    I would trust the judgement of them all and while you will argue " but thats just 5 " i can honestly say that if they had to make a call i would trust them with my life

    the bloke next door to me used a " tazer " in January, he has had 8 meetings about it so far, it was all caught on CCTV and on his body cam aswell, these guys are trained and trained well

  3. #28

    Re: Arm our officers

    Sorry but all I see by arming the police is creating opportunities for would be terrorists

    All a terrorist needs to do is overpower one bobby then he can go popping caps in farrrrrrrr more people than a crazy with a knife could stab

    Bad idea all round

  4. #29

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    I would suppose the numbers of officers in London is vastly different even to the number in a smaller city and therefore before you have "massive amount of trained officers ready to use arms" you firstly would need to find a large number of new recruits and pay for these contracts.

    .
    from what i understand, the government are training more AR officers, we of course need more Police, but the police we have could be trained and armed

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post

    If we think about what this incident was (a small and limited number of attackers in a concentrated area) then we may compare it to the Tunisia beach attacks. The greater presences of armed forces in this previous incident did not stop the attacker any more quickly that today.

    a fairly poor example, as the armed security in Tunisia is hardly the same as our trained AR Officers

    of course you will never stop these attacks, i have never said we can, but giving the police a fighting chance can only help imho

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post

    Whatever the decision I would agree with the poster who suggested that a few hours after an attack is probably not the time for major policy change.
    but it is something i think we need to look into

  5. #30

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by bobh View Post
    The main problem with routinely arming the police is that the bad guys will also arm themselves.
    UK becomes like the USA in no time.
    Agreed - and I can tell you from first hand - you do not want to live in an environment where guns become everyday items.

    UK is special because we don't see guns as routine equipment.

  6. #31

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Spearsy View Post
    I'm not a big fan of guns but I think it's time we armed all police officers. Too close to home today :(
    Nowhere near my home. I live in Wales

  7. #32
    First Team Ainsley Harriott's Avatar
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    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiffa View Post
    Sorry but all I see by arming the police is creating opportunities for would be terrorists

    All a terrorist needs to do is overpower one bobby then he can go popping caps in farrrrrrrr more people than a crazy with a knife could stab

    Bad idea all round
    Someone tried to do that at Paris' Orly airport only last week.

    He got sent upstairs to apply for his 72 virgins rather swiftly...

  8. #33

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    no

    because its easy to use the US and its armed officers are a example to win the " we do not want to arm our police " argument

    I know a 5 armed police officers, 2 current, 2 trained and 1 just retired ( about a month ago )

    I would trust the judgement of them all and while you will argue " but thats just 5 " i can honestly say that if they had to make a call i would trust them with my life

    the bloke next door to me used a " tazer " in January, he has had 8 meetings about it so far, it was all caught on CCTV and on his body cam aswell, these guys are trained and trained well
    I'm not sure how any of that is a response to what I posted.

  9. #34

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbridge Blue View Post
    Agreed - and I can tell you from first hand - you do not want to live in an environment where guns become everyday items.

    UK is special because we don't see guns as routine equipment.
    but it isnt as easy in the UK to get a gun, we do not have them floating around in bars etc etc

  10. #35

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    but it isnt as easy in the UK to get a gun, we do not have them floating around in bars etc etc
    Except in Newport of course

  11. #36

    Re: Arm our officers

    I'm with the colonel on this one ,I hope I never see the day when our police are armed.
    I also don't think that the majority of current officers would even want to be armed, but I think if they were then the next breed of police would be a far power hungry bunch than they are now.
    Also where do you draw the line? Would you want armed police at the football? Chelsea v Milwall, potential for trouble, potential for officers to be injured carrying out their duty, would you want them armed to keep any hoolies in line?

  12. #37
    Richyrich
    Guest

    Re: Arm our officers

    Agree with Colonel on this, they've got tasers which should be adequate to disable a knife-wielding maniac.

  13. #38

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ainsley Harriott View Post
    Someone tried to do that at Paris' Orly airport only last week.

    He got sent upstairs to apply for his 72 virgins rather swiftly...
    As you would expect in an airport - one of the places police are armed in numbers

    Now have the same situation with your village bobby and there's not so much back up on hand

    Arming police will simply make terrorists change their tactics, it will not stop them attacking

  14. #39

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi View Post
    I'm not sure how any of that is a response to what I posted.
    point 1 - Are you kidding?

    i pointed out that i am not kidding, as the US argument is easy to use

    point 2 - Lowly paid civil servants who often choose a career in policing in order to assert their authority

    i pointed out i know 5 armed Officers and none are meathead bobby's with superiority-complex or a Lowly paid civil servants who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others

    fairly simple

  15. #40

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    I'm with the colonel on this one ,I hope I never see the day when our police are armed.
    I also don't think that the majority of current officers would even want to be armed, but I think if they were then the next breed of police would be a far power hungry bunch than they are now.
    Also where do you draw the line? Would you want armed police at the football? Chelsea v Milwall, potential for trouble, potential for officers to be injured carrying out their duty, would you want them armed to keep any hoolies in line?
    I also wonder how the OP feels about giving guns to the Muslim members of our police force? What about the members of the force with a history of violence and anger issues?

    Are we also going to pretend that corruption doesn't exist in the police force and that none of these guns would end up in the wrong hands?

    It's just such a terrible idea and I hope it doesn't gain some sort of traction in the heat of the moment because I wouldn't be surprised if our government started to push for it.

  16. #41

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    point 1 - Are you kidding?

    i pointed out that i am not kidding, as the US argument is easy to use

    point 2 - Lowly paid civil servants who often choose a career in policing in order to assert their authority

    i pointed out i know 5 armed Officers and none are meathead bobby's with superiority-complex or a Lowly paid civil servants who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others

    fairly simple
    Well my point was "fairly simple" and you didn't address it.

    There are 125,000 police officers in the UK according to my Google-fu and so far we've got Blue matt's Golden Guarantee™ that at least 5 of them won't peel your cap off in a moment of roid-induced rage, can you vouch for the rest or will we have to chance it?

  17. #42

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Richyrich View Post
    Agree with Colonel on this, they've got tasers which should be adequate to disable a knife-wielding maniac.
    But today they clearly were not enough.

    The attacker killed one of the first line of friendly face cops I suspect. There to give some
    British normality in a very public place , yellow high vis jacket , maybe not even a taser.
    The next line of hard cops rightly took the killer out straight away.

    A nutter with a knife intending to kill before the PC could even think about what was happening.

    Taser tucked well out of sight of Joe Public if he even had one.

    Get ferking real RR.

  18. #43

    Re: Arm our officers

    I thought they do already?? Saw a few in the Hayes the other day with guns in display.....it will be routine soon. I'm afraid bush and Blair have phucked the world as we know it well up.....it's only going to get worse.....

  19. #44

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    But today they clearly were not enough.

    The attacker killed one of the first line of friendly face cops I suspect. There to give some
    British normality in a very public place , yellow high vis jacket , maybe not even a taser.
    The next line of hard cops rightly took the killer out straight away.

    A nutter with a knife intending to kill before the PC could even think about what was happening.

    Taser tucked well out of sight of Joe Public if he even had one.

    Get ferking real RR.
    I'm sure I heard earlier from one of the high up police spokesmen that the officer killed was armed?
    I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure.

  20. #45

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    But today they clearly were not enough.

    The attacker killed one of the first line of friendly face cops I suspect. There to give some
    British normality in a very public place , yellow high vis jacket , maybe not even a taser.
    The next line of hard cops rightly took the killer out straight away.

    A nutter with a knife intending to kill before the PC could even think about what was happening.

    Taser tucked well out of sight of Joe Public if he even had one.

    Get ferking real RR.
    You've said the PC was killed before he could even think about what was happening.

    Sadly I think you're right.

    So what difference would him having a gun have made?

  21. #46
    Richyrich
    Guest

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    point 1 - Are you kidding?

    i pointed out that i am not kidding, as the US argument is easy to use

    point 2 - Lowly paid civil servants who often choose a career in policing in order to assert their authority

    i pointed out i know 5 armed Officers and none are meathead bobby's with superiority-complex or a Lowly paid civil servants who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others

    fairly simple
    Your argument doesn't stand up Matt. The officers you know are the cream of the cream and specially trained, you're arguing about arming EVERY police officer, that is a massive difference. Can you see that?

  22. #47
    Richyrich
    Guest

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWales View Post
    But today they clearly were not enough.

    The attacker killed one of the first line of friendly face cops I suspect. There to give some
    British normality in a very public place , yellow high vis jacket , maybe not even a taser.
    The next line of hard cops rightly took the killer out straight away.

    A nutter with a knife intending to kill before the PC could even think about what was happening.

    Taser tucked well out of sight of Joe Public if he even had one.

    Get ferking real RR.
    The officer killed was armed it's being reported.

  23. #48

    Re: Arm our officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    I'm sure I heard earlier from one of the high up police spokesmen that the officer killed was armed?
    I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure.
    answering my own question but, yes he was armed

    Four people have been killed in a "sick and depraved" terror attack that brought carnage to the heart of London, including the armed police*officer who was stabbed and his*assailant.

  24. #49

    Re: Arm our officers

    1) There are bare armed police in Parliament area
    2) Police are bad enough with stop and search, arming them will increase police brutality

  25. #50

    Re: Arm our officers

    So because of an isolated incident in London, which was dealt with by trained, armed personnel, the whole of the UK police force should be armed?

    A poor argument and a terrible idea.

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