30 Ventilators

[Feedback]

You say it isn't a left v right issue then mention a country with a left leaning government is up shit creek.
Again Brilliant.

that is my point. if this was about left v right and the left would have made better decisions, then Sweden wouldn't be suffering now. This really isn't party political, its a shit show and would be the case no matter who we have in government.

[Feedback]

left or centre left newspapers

The Daily Mirror
The Observer
The Guardian
The Morning Star

[Croesy Blue]

What shows it isn't a left v right issue is we were doing the same as Sweden 3 weeks ago.

I hope Sweden stop their herd immunity idea soon as I think they'll end up with a lot of people dying.

[Croesy Blue]

left or centre left newspapers

The Daily Mirror
The Observer
The Guardian
The Morning Star

What's the readership of those though compared to the sun, mail, telegraph, times, express.

The sun backed labour until the levenson.

[Feedback]

What's the readership of those though compared to the sun, mail, telegraph, times, express.

The sun backed labour until the levenson.

So what you're suggesting is that by and large the UK public prefer right and centre right newspapers rather than the alternative.

This backs up my point that the UK is predominantly right of centre

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Don't be ridiculous. Your posts are getting more bizarre by the hour. You ask about Hillsborough. It took a Tory government to hold an Inquiry into Hillsborough. There have been 9 Public Inquiries since 2010 under the Inquiries Act 2005. If Labour are so great why didn't they hold one for Hillsborough when in power. There are vearios papers online to verify this fact.

You don't seem to get it. COVID 19 should not be politicised at this time. There's plenty of time for that later. Even your darling Labour Party agree. Your generalisations are ridiculous as you are showing yourself up as a person who is unable to see both sides of an argument. It's not a question of Tory bad, Labour good. It's much more important than that.

I don't understand your reference to left wing newspapers as that has nothing to do with any post I made. But while we are at it I have raised several questions of you on this thread which have been ignored. Perhaps we should leave it there but I humbly suggest you try and hold fire with your sweeping and ridiculous unsubstantiated generalisations until you can back up your arguments with facts which cannot be fully known until this COVID episode is over. Just for your information House of Commons Select Committee Inquiries with representatives of all parties are not in the gift of the government. The Committee itself decides.

Cobblers , you try and portray yourself as middle ground but you are a tory boot kicker

[Croesy Blue]

So what you're suggesting is that by and large the UK public prefer right and centre right newspapers rather than the alternative.

This backs up my point that the UK is predominantly right of centre

Nope disagree, the majority ofthe uk vote for what the sun tells them even if in reality it isn't in their best interests.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

left or centre left newspapers

The Daily Mirror
The Observer
The Guardian
The Morning Star

The observer is the guardian on sunday you daft plank

The morning star is not a mainstream newspaper


We have , on the left , the daily mirror

In the centre , the guardian/observer , same paper

On the right ? The Sun , The Daily Express, The Daily Nazi Mail , The Times , The Telegraph , The Daily Star

[Feedback]

Nope disagree, the majority ofthe uk vote for what the sun tells them even if in reality it isn't in their best interests.

The sun has 4m readers. That alone is not enough to win any election.

Your suggestion that Sun voters arent capable of independent thought is as arrogant as it is staggering. Its paradigms such as yours that are an inherent part of the problem

[Feedback]

The observer is the guardian on sunday you daft plank

The morning star is not a mainstream newspaper


We have , on the left , the daily mirror

In the centre , the guardian/observer , same paper

On the right ? The Sun , The Daily Express, The Daily Nazi Mail , The Times , The Telegraph , The Daily Star

Of course the Observer and the Guardian are stable bedfellows. Why do you feel the need to make such obvious statements?

The point being is that the centre right and right have more press because the UK leans more towards the right.

And the Guardian and Observer are centre left.

[Croesy Blue]

The sun has 4m readers. That alone is not enough to win any election.

Your suggestion that Sun voters arent capable of independent thought is as arrogant as it is staggering. Its paradigms such as yours that are an inherent part of the problem

People who are capable of independent thought can still be sold lies and propaganda. This has been proven by every vote we've ever had.

The tories are now the party being elected in many working class areas, do you think the tories are the best party to be in powerfor the working class of this country?

[Feedback]

People who are capable of independent thought can still be sold lies and propaganda. This has been proven by every vote we've ever had.

The tories are now the party being elected in many working class areas, do you think the tories are the best party to be in powerfor the working class of this country?

At this present time, I think the working class needs a government that promotes business and opportunity to succeed. Only with a strong economy can you have strong social justice.

Political parties differ on how to get there, and I think (Brexit aside), the Tories are probably the best bet for now

[Croesy Blue]

At this present time, I think the working class needs a government that promotes business and opportunity to succeed. Only with a strong economy can you have strong social justice.

Political parties differ on how to get there, and I think (Brexit aside), the Tories are probably the best bet for now

Yeah the party for business that tanked our economy to please some lunatic back benchers

Anyone using that excuse for voting for the tories now is an idiot imo. They've shown they don't give a **** about business they only give a **** about lining their pockets.

That's why they're backed by the likes of Crispin Oden and Marshall Wace. And why members like Rhys Mogg are already being investigated for profiting off misery again.

Party for business my arse, anyone who votes for them is complicit. They don't care if their "business" helps the working class, they only care about "business" that lines the coffers.

[Feedback]

Yeah the party for business that tanked our economy to please some lunatic back benchers

Anyone using that excuse for voting for the tories now is an idiot imo. They've shown they don't give a **** about business they only give a **** about lining their pockets.

That's why they're backed by the likes of Crispin Oden and Marshall Wace. And why members like Rhys Mogg are already being investigated for profiting off misery again.

Party for business my arse, anyone who votes for them is complicit. They don't care if their "business" helps the working class, they only care about "business" that lines the coffers.

I agree vis a vis Brext, I don't think it is going to be good at all. However what the Tories did provide in the last election was certainty - the voters knew exactly what they were voting for. Whilst I didn't disagree with Labour's approach to put any deal to the people to vote on, their message wasn't readily understood.

However, whatever your thoughts on Brexit, the Tories are still way ahead of Labour in creating economic wealth. The art is to ensure that the wealth is distributed much more equally. You never know, the current situation may go some way in making the general public wake up and appreciate what society needs is strong business, but also strong social justice.

[Eric Cartman]

You've answered your own question. Not one country successfully planned for this, despite governments across the world being from right across the political spectrum.

This isnt a left v right issue. If it was, then Sweden wouldnt be up shit creek

I didn't ask the question, you did, and where have I said it was a left/right issue? Why are you unable to stop yourself from dividing this issue along political lines?

South Korea and Germany appear on the face of it to have managed this significantly better than we have. South Korea made decisions quickly and Germany appear to have immense spare capacity in their health service.

Sweden are following something pretty close to our original plan ironically.

[Croesy Blue]

However, whatever your thoughts on Brexit, the Tories are still way ahead of Labour in creating economic wealth. for themselves and their pals yes

The art is to ensure that the wealth is distributed much more equally. will never happen under the tories

Anyone voting for the is complicit.

[Feedback]

I didn't ask the question, you did, and where have I said it was a left/right issue? Why are you unable to stop yourself from dividing this issue along political lines?

South Korea and Germany appear on the face of it to have managed this significantly better than we have. South Korea made decisions quickly and Germany appear to have immense spare capacity in their health service.

Sweden are following something pretty close to our original plan ironically.

stick your had in the sand all you like but many posters in this thread, before I entered the fray, were making the UK lack's of preparedness a political issue.

Germany has a much better healthcare system that the UK. That's because the Germans use a mix of private and public healthcare provision - almost all service delivery is by the private sector with funding either from the state or your private insurance. We could learn so much from the Germans on healthcare delivery, but too many are myopic and prefer political dogma over practicality and results.

[Feedback]

with all due respect, we've just seen a Tory Chancellor give away huge amounts of free cash to the employed and self-employed, limiting it to those who earn the least. Likewise, small businesses have been given grant income, whereas larger businesses have not.

if you're going to be blinkered that is fine, but try not to make out the Tories aren't helping the little guy through this crisis because that would just not be true.

[Croesy Blue]

stick your had in the sand all you like but many posters in this thread, before I entered the fray, were making the UK lack's of preparedness a political issue.

Germany has a much better healthcare system that the UK. That's because the Germans use a mix of private and public healthcare provision - almost all service delivery is by the private sector with funding either from the state or your private insurance. We could learn so much from the Germans on healthcare delivery, but too many are myopic and prefer political dogma over practicality and results.

It is a political issue, the current Government were vastly unprepared.

If you have your tongue so far up the government's arse you think that's a right/left issue that's on you.

[Croesy Blue]

with all due respect, we've just seen a Tory Chancellor give away huge amounts of free cash to the employed and self-employed, limiting it to those who earn the least. Likewise, small businesses have been given grant income, whereas larger businesses have not.

if you're going to be blinkered that is fine, but try not to make out the Tories aren't helping the little guy through this crisis because that would just not be true.

I think their response to this has been good in terms of looking after workers, but a shame it was about a month later than it should have been and a shame they've run our health system into the ground.

I'm not going to look past a whole history of evidence after a month of panicking.

[Feedback]

I think their response to this has been good in terms of looking after workers, but a shame it was about a month later than it should have been and a shame they've run our health system into the ground.

I'm not going to look past a whole history of evidence after a month of panicking.

but the NHS hasn't been run into the ground. That's dogma. If you're ill you will be seen, if you have an accident you will be taken care of. If you want a German style healthcare system where everyone has their own bed, their own room, waiting lists are unheard of and they have the newest equipment and hospitals, then two things need to happen. Firstly, we need more investment in UK healthcare and secondly, we need the state to remove itself from running healthcare, and leave it to the healthcare professionals.

[Rjk]

stick your had in the sand all you like but many posters in this thread, before I entered the fray, were making the UK lack's of preparedness a political issue.

Germany has a much better healthcare system that the UK. That's because the Germans use a mix of private and public healthcare provision - almost all service delivery is by the private sector with funding either from the state or your private insurance. We could learn so much from the Germans on healthcare delivery, but too many are myopic and prefer political dogma over practicality and results.

This post is political dogma in itself.
The only time the private sector is better for the customer than the public sector is when there is genuine market competition. That is never going to be the case for the cast majority of health care provision.
The German system is pretty good, but it has been funded better than our system for as long as records began. If we matched their funding for a decaslde or more I think our system would be better. As it is, even with a significant funding disparity the NHS is on a par with Germany in a number of measures. Life expectancy etc

[Feedback]

This post is political dogma in itself.
The only time the private sector is better for the customer than the public sector is when there is genuine market competition. That is never going to be the case for the cast majority of health care provision.
The German system is pretty good, but it has been funded better than our system for as long as records began. If we matched their funding for a decaslde or more I think our system would be better. As it is, even with a significant funding disparity the NHS is on a par with Germany in a number of measures. Life expectancy etc

we've had this discussion before so in the interests of brevity I won't go over it again, save to say its more than just life expectancy that is a desirable outcome. its quality of life from cradle to grave, and the German (and French) system is better than ours. They have genuine market competition, we could do but as you've seen in this thread, dogma is preferred over outcomes.

[insider]

we need the state to remove itself from running healthcare, and leave it to the healthcare professionals.

What like the NHS that have been running it from its inception?

[insider]

Brevity be facked.
You think you're intellectual because you throw words into a sentence