Political post.. @Yescymru

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The main problem with the M4 scheme is the payback. I think it cost more than 1bn (which probably means 2 or 3) and doing it would add 20-30 million a year to the economy.

given that 1bn is basically our entire budget for infrastructure spending, we are never going to tie that up for 30 odd years until the m4 relief road pays for itself

we are always told by the left (Labour) that the right (Conservatives) know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, yet here you are advocating the very same approach. What about lowering pollution, or increasing personal utility and happiness instead of being stuck in traffic jams - don't they count?

The fact is the Welsh Government shied away from investing in something which requires significant investment, citing payback is just not a reasonable excuse. Payback over 30 years is not unheard of for large capital projects. The SSC required payback over 25 years or so, perhaps we shouldn't have built that as it only shaves ten minutes of journey times.

We don't have politicians that are prepared to make bold decisions, until we do then independence is pure fantasy

[Rjk]

we are always told by the left (Labour) that the right (Conservatives) know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, yet here you are advocating the very same approach. What about lowering pollution, or increasing personal utility and happiness instead of being stuck in traffic jams - don't they count?

The fact is the Welsh Government shied away from investing in something which requires significant investment, citing payback is just not a reasonable excuse. Payback over 30 years is not unheard of for large capital projects. The SSC required payback over 25 years or so, perhaps we shouldn't have built that as it only shaves ten minutes of journey times.

We don't have politicians that are prepared to make bold decisions, until we do then independence is pure fantasy

The SSC should NEVER have taken that long to pay back, only because of the scandalous PPI agreement did it take that long. It cost about 200 million to build yet we ended up paying well over a billion pounds more than that! I genuinely think there should be an enquiry into that deal but that's another point.

The costs for the m4 relief road were already up to 1.6 bn, with some estimates already hitting 2 bn. And the money it generated was pretty low, I can't find the exact figures again, but from memory it was about 25-30 million a year.

If it's 25 million and a 2 billion cost that becomes a payback of 80 years, there are plenty of other things the money can be spent on in south wales that will have a bigger impact. We have limited scope for borrowing and limited resources so it makes sense to spend it on what will have the biggest effect.

The congestion going past newport could be improved significantly by closing half of the newport junctions imo.

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The SSC should NEVER have taken that long to pay back, only because of the scandalous PPI agreement did it take that long. It cost about 200 million to build yet we ended up paying well over a billion pounds more than that! I genuinely think there should be an enquiry into that deal but that's another point.

The costs for the m4 relief road were already up to 1.6 bn, with some estimates already hitting 2 bn. And the money it generated was pretty low, I can't find the exact figures again, but from memory it was about 25-30 million a year.

If it's 25 million and a 2 billion cost that becomes a payback of 80 years, there are plenty of other things the money can be spent on in south wales that will have a bigger impact. We have limited scope for borrowing and limited resources so it makes sense to spend it on what will have the biggest effect.

The congestion going past newport could be improved significantly by closing half of the newport junctions imo.

isn't this the argument why London gets all the investment? Yet almost no-one is advocating that anymore.

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isn't this the argument why London gets all the investment? Yet almost no-one is advocating that anymore.

the UK can afford to run multiple multi Billion infrastructure projects, it would be good if they weren't all in London.

Wales can pretty much afford to do one at a time

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the UK can afford to run multiple multi Billion infrastructure projects, it would be good if they weren't all in London.

such as HS2?

Wales can pretty much afford to do one at a time

can we? such as what - adding a few pelican crossings and belisha beacons in the Valleys somewhere

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such as HS2?

London will be, by far, the main beneficiary from HS2

can we? such as what - adding a few pelican crossings and belisha beacons in the Valleys somewhere

That is to say we COULD do a larger project, but only one probably, and that being the case it would need to have a much better case to justify doing it that the M4 relief road had, unless we want all the money tied up for the next 80 years

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London will be, by far, the main beneficiary from HS2

do you really think so? If anything, it will mean London's commuter belt extends up to the Midlands and beyond, meaning employment wealth created in London is being spent further away.

That is to say we COULD do a larger project, but only one probably, and that being the case it would need to have a much better case to justify doing it that the M4 relief road had, unless we want all the money tied up for the next 80 years

why would spending £1bn now mean our money was tied up for 80 years. if it is spent now, then it is spent, next year we have another £1bn to spend.