Loan Report

[Loramski]

It does rather beg the question what can someone like Ashford do if he's deemed to be part of the first team squad so can’t be loaned out and he’s never going to be used when named as a sub? He could score some fine goals for the under 21s I suppose, but then it may well be that Bulut thinks like you do and the goals are devalued because the defending was not Championship level? Ashford missed a chance I expected to score at Sheffield Wednesday so that may be being held against him, but he must have been the eighth Cirty player to miss a chance that night and I’d rather think of the good things in those goals against Swansea and Bristol City under 21s and in particular the one he got for Wales under 21s against the Czech Republic in added time to get a draw - the whole game was riding on that difficult finish and the fact that Ashford, first,went for the volley and then delivered it perfectly says a lot I think.

Agree about Colwill’s goal - now that was a goal that would never be scored in the Championship!

I picked up on Ashford and Joel Colwill not going on loan, against Bulut's apparent wishes, at the time but I haven't heard any more about that. It looks like the scenario you suggest, I agree, but at the same time I've no idea what (if any) loan offers were made and who turned them down. The club, Bulut, the players themselves? It does seem odd but I wouldn't like to draw a conclusion without more info.

I made a point about training in my post but you've still reduced it all down to goals scored again. I'm not saying it's irrelevant but just that it's a smaller part of the overall picture than I used to think. If Ashford is struggling to impress against the senior players in training, or struggling to take ideas in, or struggling with strength and fitness etc then that has to be taken into account along with the fact that he ran 60 yards to score in an under-21 game.

Players like Velikonja, Healey and even Danny Johnson scored for fun at that level, it didn't mean the red carpet was laid out for them at first team level. Sawyers also scored for the u-21s recently, that didn't mean Bulut started him next game either. I'd love to see Ashford and Colwill get some game time but, with Bulut's contract up in a month or so, I can understand why the long term future isn't as much of a concern for him as it is for us.

[the other bob wilson]

I picked up on Ashford and Joel Colwill not going on loan, against Bulut's apparent wishes, at the time but I haven't heard any more about that. It looks like the scenario you suggest, I agree, but at the same time I've no idea what (if any) loan offers were made and who turned them down. The club, Bulut, the players themselves? It does seem odd but I wouldn't like to draw a conclusion without more info.

I made a point about training in my post but you've still reduced it all down to goals scored again. I'm not saying it's irrelevant but just that it's a smaller part of the overall picture than I used to think. If Ashford is struggling to impress against the senior players in training, or struggling to take ideas in, or struggling with strength and fitness etc then that has to be taken into account along with the fact that he ran 60 yards to score in an under-21 game.

Players like Velikonja, Healey and even Danny Johnson scored for fun at that level, it didn't mean the red carpet was laid out for them at first team level. Sawyers also scored for the u-21s recently, that didn't mean Bulut started him next game either. I'd love to see Ashford and Colwill get some game time but, with Bulut's contract up in a month or so, I can understand why the long term future isn't as much of a concern for him as it is for us.

Why would Ashford have been selected for about ten straight games as a sub if he was struggling in all of the things you mention and why would he have got game time in the cup matches? If he was finding it hard going with the seniors wouldn’t it make more sense to say go back to the under 21s for a few months and we can reassess things then?

[Tuerto]

I picked up on Ashford and Joel Colwill not going on loan, against Bulut's apparent wishes, at the time but I haven't heard any more about that. It looks like the scenario you suggest, I agree, but at the same time I've no idea what (if any) loan offers were made and who turned them down. The club, Bulut, the players themselves? It does seem odd but I wouldn't like to draw a conclusion without more info.

I made a point about training in my post but you've still reduced it all down to goals scored again. I'm not saying it's irrelevant but just that it's a smaller part of the overall picture than I used to think. If Ashford is struggling to impress against the senior players in training, or struggling to take ideas in, or struggling with strength and fitness etc then that has to be taken into account along with the fact that he ran 60 yards to score in an under-21 game.

Players like Velikonja, Healey and even Danny Johnson scored for fun at that level, it didn't mean the red carpet was laid out for them at first team level. Sawyers also scored for the u-21s recently, that didn't mean Bulut started him next game either. I'd love to see Ashford and Colwill get some game time but, with Bulut's contract up in a month or so, I can understand why the long term future isn't as much of a concern for him as it is for us.

You post some seriously good stuff, really enjoy your take on things and i find myself agreeing with you on plenty of things. I like it that you're not sentimental or biased about young players coming through and you offer all options in an argument, not just the ones that suit your stand point. You talk like someone who has been around top level sport, or at least a very good standard.

You're right, what goes on during the week is imperative towards a young players development and inclusion. Thing is, as fans, we aren't seeing the character of these players, we don't see what they're like in certain situations on a training pitch, we don't see how they respond. We just look at a player in their position who isn't performing and ask why (Insert Name) isn't playing in front of them. Managers and coaches have to trust players as well, there are loads of factors that us as fans don't take into account or see (For obvious reasons) on a daily basis.

Young players are also in aposition where they have to prove themselves. All players have to go through it. People might think it's wrong, but they can't just be on the same level as the person in their position, they have to be better, like nearly all young players that break through, they were showing more.

[Loramski]

You post some seriously good stuff, really enjoy your take on things and i find myself agreeing with you on plenty of things. I like it that you're not sentimental or biased about young players coming through and you offer all options in an argument, not just the ones that suit your stand point. You talk like someone who has been around top level sport, or at least a very good standard.

You're right, what goes on during the week is imperative towards a young players development and inclusion. Thing is, as fans, we aren't seeing the character of these players, we don't see what they're like in certain situations on a training pitch, we don't see how they respond. We just look at a player in their position who isn't performing and ask why (Insert Name) isn't playing in front of them. Managers and coaches have to trust players as well, there are loads of factors that us as fans don't take into account or see (For obvious reasons) on a daily basis.

Young players are also in aposition where they have to prove themselves. All players have to go through it. People might think it's wrong, but they can't just be on the same level as the person in their position, they have to be better, like nearly all young players that break through, they were showing more.

You've rumbled my top level sporting prowess there, fair play. Me and my team won three division one titles in a row down gol. What gave it away?

My lad plays hockey for Wales. Amateur sport here but it's given me a few insights into how top level sport works. He broke into the Wales set-up while his club coach had him playing for the second team and that gave me the belief that any coach who wasn't bringing young players through was a cockwomble, basically.

However, while I hated the attitude to the youth sections here that Slade and Warnock had, it dawned on me that one of the reasons they hadn't been playing youngsters was that we hadn't had any who were good enough. I had to modify my position a bit then; coaches and managers should bring youngsters through - but only if they're good enough.

The problem then is how do we know which ones are good enough? Bulut seems to take an interest in the youngsters here but if he doesn't see Ashford as one of his best fifteen or sixteen players is that his misjudgement or does Ashford need to do more in games and in training to justify a place? We can argue that kind of thing till we're blue in the face, and often do, but none of us on here know for sure.

[Jimmy the Jock]

I picked up on Ashford and Joel Colwill not going on loan, against Bulut's apparent wishes, at the time but I haven't heard any more about that. It looks like the scenario you suggest, I agree, but at the same time I've no idea what (if any) loan offers were made and who turned them down. The club, Bulut, the players themselves? It does seem odd but I wouldn't like to draw a conclusion without more info.

I made a point about training in my post but you've still reduced it all down to goals scored again. I'm not saying it's irrelevant but just that it's a smaller part of the overall picture than I used to think. If Ashford is struggling to impress against the senior players in training, or struggling to take ideas in, or struggling with strength and fitness etc then that has to be taken into account along with the fact that he ran 60 yards to score in an under-21 game.

Players like Velikonja, Healey and even Danny Johnson scored for fun at that level, it didn't mean the red carpet was laid out for them at first team level. Sawyers also scored for the u-21s recently, that didn't mean Bulut started him next game either. I'd love to see Ashford and Colwill get some game time but, with Bulut's contract up in a month or so, I can understand why the long term future isn't as much of a concern for him as it is for us.

Hes gone...get over it.

[Loramski]

Hes gone...get over it.

Gone? Yes. Forgotten? No.

[City123]

Gone? Yes. Forgotten? No.

Still only 35, still time for one last dance

Go on Erol bring him home!

[jon1959]

Still only 35, still time for one last dance

Go on Erol bring him home!

'Still only 35'.

Another great opportunity to discuss those two same-age titans of European strikerdom: Etien Velikonja and Robert Lewandowski.

For me, Velikonja just shades it!

[City123]

'Still only 35'.

Another great opportunity to discuss those two same-age titans of European strikerdom: Etien Velikonja and Robert Lewandowski.

For me, Velikonja just shades it!

I hear Haaland had posers of our Etien on his wall growing up

[Citizen's Nephew]

'Still only 35'.

Another great opportunity to discuss those two same-age titans of European strikerdom: Etien Velikonja and Robert Lewandowski.

For me, Velikonja just shades it!

As someone who is an obsessive football video game collector (not just FIFA) the last time he was ever mentioned was FIFA 18 and this is his ratings breakdown and stats when he was 28 yrs old. I think he was retired in FIFA 19. But it's worth noting that when he was with us, he was really sh*t in FIFA 14. In fact, I think I still have a collection of spectacular misses by him in my (sad) gaming archives!

https://sofifa.com/player/193930/eti...80084?hl=en-US

[Loramski]

Still only 35, still time for one last dance

Go on Erol bring him home!

Funny you should say this. After the Sheffield Wednesday cup game I wrote to the club suggesting we bring Velikonja back as a full-time penalty taking coach. They must've lost my contact details because I still haven't heard back but I'll chase it up.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Funny you should say this. After the Sheffield Wednesday cup game I wrote to the club suggesting we bring Velikonja back as a full-time penalty taking coach. They must've lost my contact details because I still haven't heard back but I'll chase it up.