The Bluebirds Academy and DVP thread...

[Loramski]

Based on yesterday, you would say that Kadeem Harris might, only might, be able to do a job for the first team, but there was no one else on show who looked worthy of consideration. With all of the defensive problems we have been having lately, you would have thought Matt Connolly would have been a possibility, but he wasn't very good yesterday and I wouldn't be surprised if he was having, understandable, problems in motivating himself to play on Monday afternoons in front about 50 people. Loic Damour did some good things, but I would say he did his first team chances a lot of harm against Norwich and I can't see matches against Millwall reserves overcoming the damage he did to his cause that night.

Although they've lost their last two games, the contrast between the Academy team and the Under 23s is a stark one this season and it's a concern that what looks to be a good crop of 16 to 18 year olds we have coming through will have nowhere to go to continue their development in a couple of years time unless there is a radical change in thinking at the club when it comes to considering young players as possible first teamers.

Which, I'm sure, is exactly the point that Bellamy has been making to the club over and over again. To be fair, I think (hope?) the under-23 set-up is starting to move in the right direction now. There seems to be a settled squad of around 16 contracted players at last and the more they train and play together the more things should improve.

As I said, the balance of that squad isn't great but at least we seem to be moving away from the endless changes & trials that have dogged that age group this year. Most of the lads are only on short term contracts, I think, so there's every incentive for them to impress quickly. Those that don't will presumably make way for the Academy lads coming up next year. Now we've just got to hope they won't be expected to play the kind of parks football that they were moving towards last season. How's the style of play been this season so far?

[the other bob wilson]

Which, I'm sure, is exactly the point that Bellamy has been making to the club over and over again. To be fair, I think (hope?) the under-23 set-up is starting to move in the right direction now. There seems to be a settled squad of around 16 contracted players at last and the more they train and play together the more things should improve.

As I said, the balance of that squad isn't great but at least we seem to be moving away from the endless changes & trials that have dogged that age group this year. Most of the lads are only on short term contracts, I think, so there's every incentive for them to impress quickly. Those that don't will presumably make way for the Academy lads coming up next year. Now we've just got to hope they won't be expected to play the kind of parks football that they were moving towards last season. How's the style of play been this season so far?

I've not seen any improvements in style of play from last season yet and I've also not seen anything to indicate that the team has improved from what we had when we were picking locally produced youngsters - in fact, performance and results have dipped significantly at this level since Neil Warnock arrived. We may have a bit of continuity in selection this season and, eventually, that may lead to improvements, but potential first team footballers? I don't see that happening for a couple of reasons, first, City don't give first team debuts in league matches to anyone who hasn't been signed recently these days and, second, although I still have some hopes for Cameron Coxe if they stopped using him as a (f)utility player, there's no one at that level playing well enough to break through into senior football at league level.

[Loramski]

I've not seen any improvements in style of play from last season yet and I've also not seen anything to indicate that the team has improved from what we had when we were picking locally produced youngsters - in fact, performance and results have dipped significantly at this level since Neil Warnock arrived. We may have a bit of continuity in selection this season and, eventually, that may lead to improvements, but potential first team footballers? I don't see that happening for a couple of reasons, first, City don't give first team debuts in league matches to anyone who hasn't been signed recently these days and, second, although I still have some hopes for Cameron Coxe if they stopped using him as a (f)utility player, there's no one at that level playing well enough to break through into senior football at league level.

But, surely, your second reason explains the first one. Or are you saying we should be playing youngsters whether they're good enough or not and that will benefit both the club and the youngsters themselves? How's that policy been paying off at Glamorgan this season?

After all the upheaval at u-23 level it finally looks like its settling down. Hopefully they can start playing some decent football and the better ones can push on. For all the good results we used to have it didn't produce many first teamers, we'll have to wait and see if the shake-up (and keeping the talented Academy lads well away from it) will pay dividends in the long run.

[the other bob wilson]

But, surely, your second reason explains the first one. Or are you saying we should be playing youngsters whether they're good enough or not and that will benefit both the club and the youngsters themselves? How's that policy been paying off at Glamorgan this season?

After all the upheaval at u-23 level it finally looks like its settling down. Hopefully they can start playing some decent football and the better ones can push on. For all the good results we used to have it didn't produce many first teamers, we'll have to wait and see if the shake-up (and keeping the talented Academy lads well away from it) will pay dividends in the long run.

This is a conversation that's been had plenty of times on here, but I still say that there is no encouragement whatsoever given to locally produced young players at the club once they reach an age when a decision is made about giving them professional contracts. The club hand out so many of these contracts, but there seems little point to it currently, because the youngsters concerned have next to no chance of playing for the first team and surely the whole point of making someone a full time professional is that they are considered realistic contenders to make it into the first team?

I don't accept the argument that just because we don't have first teamers who came up through the ranks that it automatically means we haven't had any who were good enough to make it at senior level for the club. If you play for a club that has not shown any faith in youth for years, then this is bound to have an influence on the way you approach your time there - in the end, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy because any lads from this area with a level of talent which gives them that reasonable chance of making a long career for themselves in the game will decide not to bother with Cardiff because they have no recent precedents of local youngsters "making it" at the club.

As for the current crop of Development team players, I did say a degree of continuity might result in some improvement and it would be unfair to write off players such as Ryan Price and Dan Martin because they've only just arrived here, but I'm not seeing anything from the trialists we gave contracts to over the course of 16/17 and last season to suggest they are an improvement on what we had.

[Loramski]

This is a conversation that's been had plenty of times on here, but I still say that there is no encouragement whatsoever given to locally produced young players at the club once they reach an age when a decision is made about giving them professional contracts. The club hand out so many of these contracts, but there seems little point to it currently, because the youngsters concerned have next to no chance of playing for the first team and surely the whole point of making someone a full time professional is that they are considered realistic contenders to make it into the first team?

I don't accept the argument that just because we don't have first teamers who came up through the ranks that it automatically means we haven't had any who were good enough to make it at senior level for the club. If you play for a club that has not shown any faith in youth for years, then this is bound to have an influence on the way you approach your time there - in the end, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy because any lads from this area with a level of talent which gives them that reasonable chance of making a long career for themselves in the game will decide not to bother with Cardiff because they have no recent precedents of local youngsters "making it" at the club.

As for the current crop of Development team players, I did say a degree of continuity might result in some improvement and it would be unfair to write off players such as Ryan Price and Dan Martin because they've only just arrived here, but I'm not seeing anything from the trialists we gave contracts to over the course of 16/17 and last season to suggest they are an improvement on what we had.

One thing that doesn't help the under-23s at present is that neither Warnock or Bellamy seem the slightest bit interested. I remember Bellamy saying recently that the progression from under-18s should be to first team football (here or on loan) rather than to the under-23s which I pretty much agree with although I think it's a bit unrealistic. There's an interesting piece here with his views on last Saturday's Academy game. He's obviously very happy that a few under 16s got fast tracked in which seems to be in stark contrast to his view on under 18s being fast tracked into the under-23s.

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...yed-very-well/

[Loramski]

A good win for the Academy boys this morning, 3-2 against Watford with all the goals coming in the last twenty minutes. Another terrific game. Very competitive with a real edge to it, some bad tackles flying in and I heard quite a few naughty words. Bellamy was up for it (of course), he managed to get in a shouting match with the linesman on the opposite side of the pitch which was funny. We used an interesting system, three at the back when we were in possession with right wing back Connor Davies tracking back to make a four when not, with the three moving over so centre back Joel Bagan became a left back. I think.

Hopefully TOBW will do a write-up, it was an eventful game. On what I've seen this season I'd definitely recommend going down to watch next time they're at home, which is December 1st apparently. Five away games now then three weeks off, I've absolutely no idea what that's about. Bizarre.

[MOZZER2]

i do read this thread with interest and admire your posts along with bob but to me the whole academy and u-23 development is dead in the water bringing players through to the first team not just with the city but all pro clubs . is there any point running academys anymore with the costs involved ?

[the other bob wilson]

A good win for the Academy boys this morning, 3-2 against Watford with all the goals coming in the last twenty minutes. Another terrific game. Very competitive with a real edge to it, some bad tackles flying in and I heard quite a few naughty words. Bellamy was up for it (of course), he managed to get in a shouting match with the linesman on the opposite side of the pitch which was funny. We used an interesting system, three at the back when we were in possession with right wing back Connor Davies tracking back to make a four when not, with the three moving over so centre back Joel Bagan became a left back. I think.

Hopefully TOBW will do a write-up, it was an eventful game. On what I've seen this season I'd definitely recommend going down to watch next time they're at home, which is December 1st apparently. Five away games now then three weeks off, I've absolutely no idea what that's about. Bizarre.

Was having some dodgy electrics at my new home, hopefully, sorted out yesterday, so I couldn't make the game - no Sion Spence again I see, he must be injured.