Time to tell them to bugger off and not give them anything

[Eric the Half a Bee]

The UK has offered a substantial divorce settlement when it doesn't need to pay a penny. I'd say that was being reasonable. Keep batting for the EU though.

I read in the right wing media that the UK are the only parties being decent. I read in alternative media sources that the EU are the only ones being decent.

I suspect somewhere in the middle is where the truth lies. Neither are being particularly decent. That also seems most logical given the circumstances.

Because of this, I stand by my statement that your suggestion that the UK are the only ones being reasonable is bollocks.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

I read in the right wing media that the UK are the only parties being decent. I read in alternative media sources that the EU are the only ones being decent.

I suspect somewhere in the middle is where the truth lies. Neither are being particularly decent. That also seems most logical given the circumstances.

Because of this, I stand by my statement that your suggestion that the UK are the only ones being reasonable is bollocks.

In cases like this it's common sense that rules tbh.

What would Britain gain from a decent Brexit deal? Best of both worlds, non EU trade and good deal with EU.

What would EU gain from a decent Brexit deal? Continued trade... BUT any decent Brexit deal would be a message to EU nations that, gasp, they can work effectively to the same level or better outside the EU.

So which side has it as a core interest to have Brexit fail? Clue; the entity is called EU.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

In cases like this it's common sense that rules tbh.

What would Britain gain from a decent Brexit deal? Best of both worlds, non EU trade and good deal with EU.

What would EU gain from a decent Brexit deal? Continued trade... BUT any decent Brexit deal would be a message to EU nations that, gasp, they can work effectively to the same level or better outside the EU.

So which side has it as a core interest to have Brexit fail? Clue; the entity is called EU.

And this is your version of common sense? It's full of assumptions and is driven by the Brexiteers' chip on the shoulder - boo hoo they don't like us and they're being unreasonable.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

And this is your version of common sense? It's full of assumptions and is driven by the Brexiteers' chip on the shoulder - boo hoo they don't like us and they're being unreasonable.

Of course they are going to be unreasonable. The EU agenda is the EU. Nothing else.

Knowing the tight deadlines, applying conditions before even talking about trade is absolutely ridiculous. Talks could easily be conducted in parallel, the most sensible course of action.

EU are losing the 2nd highest contributor. It's an assumption they'd want to make as much money as possible irrespective of the amount being fair, reasonable or even accurate?

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Of course they are going to be unreasonable. The EU agenda is the EU. Nothing else.

Knowing the tight deadlines, applying conditions before even talking about trade is absolutely ridiculous. Talks could easily be conducted in parallel, the most sensible course of action.

EU are losing the 2nd highest contributor. It's an assumption they'd want to make as much money as possible irrespective of the amount being fair, reasonable or even accurate?

It's a deadline we set. And yes.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

It's a deadline we set. And yes.

Article 50 gives a 2 year deadline, which we're abiding by. It can be extended should the European Council agree - so that's a pretty big assumption on your part that all other member states would agree to such an extension.

[Bluebirdman Of Alcathays]

Article 50 gives a 2 year deadline, which we're abiding by. It can be extended should the European Council agree - so that's a pretty big assumption on your part that all other member states would agree to such an extension.

Which we triggered.

[Eric Cartman]

What would EU gain from a decent Brexit deal? Continued trade... BUT any decent Brexit deal would be a message to EU nations that, gasp, they can work effectively to the same level or better outside the EU.

No it wouldn't mean that at all. It would mean a country with an economy the size of Britain has enough economic sway to sort out a trade deal with the EU. The day after Brexit we might have a decent deal with the EU and we might have managed to copy and paste some kind of transitional arrangement with a few other countries but this idea that we will quickly be able to trade freely with the rest of the world (in a way unlike before) is mental. This is going to take years and years to see if Brexit is a success, failure or just pointless.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

No it wouldn't mean that at all. It would mean a country with an economy the size of Britain has enough economic sway to sort out a trade deal with the EU. The day after Brexit we might have a decent deal with the EU and we might have managed to copy and paste some kind of transitional arrangement with a few other countries but this idea that we will quickly be able to trade freely with the rest of the world (in a way unlike before) is mental. This is going to take years and years to see if Brexit is a success, failure or just pointless.

Who is saying it would be amazing day one? Of course there will be inevitable issues - it's a long term thing not short term.

[Eric Cartman]

Who is saying it would be amazing day one? Of course there will be inevitable issues - it's a long term thing not short term.

You said this...

any decent Brexit deal would be a message to EU nations that, gasp, they can work effectively to the same level or better outside the EU.

It just isn't true. A decent deal doesn't tell them that at all. An analysis in 20 years might, but who knows what state the UK/EU will be in by then.

This idea that the EU as a collective is just being petty and will sacrifice billions of $ of trade just to teach us a lesson is fanciful. This is how a negotiation works, they want their things, we want ours. We meet somewhere in the middle, unfortunately we are starting in the worse position.

I am really tired of the oh so predictable 'johnny foreigner is trying to get one over on good old blighty' bullshit imo.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

You said this...



It just isn't true. A decent deal doesn't tell them that at all. An analysis in 20 years might, but who knows what state the UK/EU will be in by then.

This idea that the EU as a collective is just being petty and will sacrifice billions of $ of trade just to teach us a lesson is fanciful. This is how a negotiation works, they want their things, we want ours. We meet somewhere in the middle, unfortunately we are starting in the worse position.

I am really tired of the oh so predictable 'johnny foreigner is trying to get one over on good old blighty' bullshit imo.

Billions of trade won't be sacrificed. Tariffs would be applied.

There is no real negotiation. There has been a rising tide of anti-EU sentiment across Europe, not just in Britain. EU are doing what they decide is best for EU; not necessarily for member states.

Should deals be established quickly with non-EU states by Britain, there's a clear narrative that not being in EU isn't the end of the world by any means.

End of the day, it's not as simplistic as us good, "johnny foreigner" bad.

[Eric Cartman]

Billions of trade won't be sacrificed. Tariffs would be applied.

There is no real negotiation. There has been a rising tide of anti-EU sentiment across Europe, not just in Britain. EU are doing what they decide is best for EU; not necessarily for member states.

Should deals be established quickly with non-EU states by Britain, there's a clear narrative that not being in EU isn't the end of the world by any means.

End of the day, it's not as simplistic as us good, "johnny foreigner" bad.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

In cases like this it's common sense that rules tbh.

What would Britain gain from a decent Brexit deal? Best of both worlds, non EU trade and good deal with EU.

What would EU gain from a decent Brexit deal? Continued trade... BUT any decent Brexit deal would be a message to EU nations that, gasp, they can work effectively to the same level or better outside the EU.

So which side has it as a core interest to have Brexit fail? Clue; the entity is called EU.

But you don't get it that if Brexit fails, the UK will suffer big time as well.

The core interest is to get a deal that suits both UK and EU or Brexit is scrapped. A no deal is not in Britain's best interest, no matter how much you swallow from the right wing media.

[ccfc_is_my_life]

But you don't get it that if Brexit fails, the UK will suffer big time as well.

The core interest is to get a deal that suits both UK and EU or Brexit is scrapped. A no deal is not in Britain's best interest, no matter how much you swallow from the right wing media.

Of course I get that - which is why any post Brexit actions have to focus on increasing non EU trade over EU trade.

You seem to believe there's interest in EU for a deal that suits both. You seriously believe EU want that? They want to scupper Brexit, try to force a lousy deal. EU want to send a message to any other nation thinking of leaving.

I'm well aware many, like Corbyn, reject "no deal". That's a great negotiating tactic that, "we'll accept any deal or will cancel Brexit".

EU is very much on a downward curve; German economics dominating it and Merkel can't even form a government at the moment. When Britain leaves, others will have to step forward due to the loss of the net contributions. Can't see Germany being happy at having to burden that load even more.