View Full Version : NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses
Colonel Cærdiffi
04-01-15, 00:03
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
saganspirit
04-01-15, 00:07
If the Tories go in again in May, the death knell for the NHS will reach a crescendo.
Looks like the procurement process is in Alcatel, so nobody involved in the bid should be disclosing information. Just because the NHS were cheaper is irrelevant. We don't know what the award criteria were, price would only be one. Chances are they scored badly on the others.
Nothing to see here. Yet
Dr Tim Muff
04-01-15, 00:11
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
crazyhorse
04-01-15, 00:15
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif Wrong thread.
Mrs Steve R
04-01-15, 00:19
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)Don't you worry about it Colonel, they only have our best interests at heart. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif
Colonel Cærdiffi
04-01-15, 00:25
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
<i>A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.Our generation is ballsing it all up in one fell swoop.
You want a new car? There was a bloke in Caerphilly earlier giving one away.
Won't start mind you
Under the Splott-light
04-01-15, 00:29
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.r u saying "get th toffe faces out", if so I agre it time now to man the boardes an stop forernors cumin in.
Dr Tim Muff
04-01-15, 00:31
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Dr Tim Muff
04-01-15, 00:35
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.Could you share your understanding please?
Taunton Blue Genie
04-01-15, 00:38
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.Having experienced a number of recessions I don't think it's that linear or that simple. And although I am very pro-NHS, tenders I have been involved in (albeit on a very superficial level) are not just about price.I think we need to know more than just headlines here.
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Could you share your understanding please?Pm sent
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
Don't you worry about it Colonel, they only have our best interests at heart. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif 100% correct.
Colonel Cærdiffi
04-01-15, 00:50
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.
Don't you worry about it Colonel, they only have our best interests at heart. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif
Every generation that preceded us made the country better for their children.Yeah, I'm sure it'll be fine.
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Dr Tim Muff
04-01-15, 01:00
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Could you share your understanding please?
Pm sent http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Looks like the procurement process is in Alcatel, so nobody involved in the bid should be disclosing information. Just because the NHS were cheaper is irrelevant. We don't know what the award criteria were, price would only be one. Chances are they scored badly on the others.Probably profits for Tory donors and/or relatives and friends.
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.Are you a Freemason too? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
saganspirit
04-01-15, 01:33
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.Hmm, I don't doubt your credentials on this but I don't trust the law when it involves this kind of money.
Holy crap http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sad.gif
Of the two words you use to react to the "story", one of them is accurate.
You sound as if you have further info on the "story" - is that the case?
Yes. In so far as I've read the whole article and understand the legal implications of the situation. With respect, it is pretty clear I'm the only one who does in this particular instance.
Could you share your understanding please?When comparing public sector tenders price is only one factor when scoring. You could be best on price but worst on every other factor and as such not be awarded the contract.
the other bob wilson
04-01-15, 06:36
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.Well the law is an ass then.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Mick the Miller
04-01-15, 07:30
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Well the law is an ass then.Nothing more to be said.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.I fecking despair at times.
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 08:26
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Are you a Freemason too? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif I reckon it's all above board
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.It is a fact that a private firm would have the aim to maximise profit. The aim of this privatisation (I know - an exaggeration but still) is to provide competition but as far as I am concerned, the NHS is built on a system of collaboration and specialisation (ie via Centres of Excellence) than by competition. This privatisation is fragmenting the NHS and leading to a leekage of public money.
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Are you a Freemason too? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
TH63 knows what he's about on this. It's nothing to do with Tories, or Labour for that matter, more to do with EuropeIf more info is given out, then I will change my position appropriately. I am just commenting using the info given, so it may not be 100% accurate.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.the days must fly by reading such fascinating literature http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
I fecking despair at times.Ain't too long: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/257/pdfs/uksi_201302 57_en.pdf (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/257/pdfs/uksi_20130257_en.pdf)
Not the only contract
http://nhap.org/join-us-nhs-fightback/facts-fingertips/
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/NHS-privatisation-fears-Healt hshare-wins-pound-8/story-22049360-detail/story.html (http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/NHS-privatisation-fears-Healthshare-wins-pound-8/story-22049360-detail/story.html)
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/02/cancer-care-n hs-outsourcing-ccgs-unison-virgin (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/02/cancer-care-nhs-outsourcing-ccgs-unison-virgin)
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11692330.NOT_AGAIN __Fears_East_Lancashire_hospitals_could_lose_MORE_ services_a s_4_contracts_go_to_tender/?ref=rss (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11692330.NOT_AGAIN__Fears_East_Lancashire_hospital s_could_lose_MORE_services_as_4_contracts_go_to_te nder/?ref=rss)
Jordi Culé
04-01-15, 09:36
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Are you a Freemason too? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
TH63 knows what he's about on this. It's nothing to do with Tories, or Labour for that matter, more to do with EuropeAm I being too cynical?
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.One final point, are you aware BUPA, as an example, is a non profit making organisation and that any surplus generated will be reinvested into providing healthcare. Private sector does not have to mean profit making.
Not the only contractThen I take back my "discrimination" claims.
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 09:52
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Are you a Freemason too? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
TH63 knows what he's about on this. It's nothing to do with Tories, or Labour for that matter, more to do with Europe
If a public contract is worth around £100K a year or more it has to go out to EUROPEAN tender. When the NHS buys goods it cannot reclaim VAT. When it buys a service ( as in this case) it can reclaim the 20% VAT. In practice this can make private bids effectively 20% cheaper than they seem when this is considered. It has lead to a growth in private companies being involved in supplying services to the NHS
Jimmy Jimmy
04-01-15, 09:54
I've worked on a NHS tender (getting companies to bid on a service on behalf of the NHS)- there are various factors involved some of which were :-
Service Delivery Times - including any penalty clauses
Total Cost of Ownership - which included the cost of machinery as well as total staff costs - including NI, pension etc
Plus there were economies of scale to be achieved - alot of the tasks could be automated with software tools the NHS did not currently use or have skills in.
Without knowing the exact criteria that was set here - no one knows the exact answer - which is why you have people reacting to the headline rather than the factual detail
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
I fecking despair at times.I did say that the comparison is not 100% accurate though. I think that with public services, there should be more transparency and the people should be involved more in decision making.
The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.
See VAT 701/57
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
I fecking despair at times.
"Absolutely zero knowledge"? What a lame assumption.The contract process is pretty robust Adz and will ensure that the best overall service provider is chosen. That has to be best for the patient in the long term. What does it matter if a healthcare provider generates a profit if the quality and provision of healthcare has improved due to the increase in competition?
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 10:06
The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.If however a private company provided a service which included the provision of medicines the VAT could be reclaimed.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
I fecking despair at times.
"Absolutely zero knowledge"? What a lame assumption.
I have read the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (SI 257) and it basically says that there should be no discrimination between private and NHS providers. We can see that the NHS bid was cheaper, so based on what we know, it is discrimination against the NHS provider. Competition in my opinion varies from market to market. With the NHS, it is based on collaboration and specialisation. I think that competition would ruin that.
The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.
That's not so. VAT is charged on good purchased by the NHS.To reclaim VAT the organisation has to be VAT registered. This rule is applicable to all service providers including the NHS - where a private supplier can recover VAT via partial recovery so can the NHS.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
I fecking despair at times.
"Absolutely zero knowledge"? What a lame assumption.
I have read the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (SI 257) and it basically says that there should be no discrimination between private and NHS providers. We can see that the NHS bid was cheaper, so based on what we know, it is discrimination against the NHS provider.
It is a fact that a private firm would have the aim to maximise profit. The aim of this privatisation (I know - an exaggeration but still) is to provide competition but as far as I am concerned, the NHS is built on a system of collaboration and specialisation (ie via Centres of Excellence) than by competition. This privatisation is fragmenting the NHS and leading to a leekage of public money.That's your opinion Adz, these contracts will be designed to include specialisation and collaboration provisions. See the staffs cancer tender link above. It's about putting patients first and ensuring joined up thinking from end to end.
Lisvaneblue It does not work like that, any company registered for VAT including the NHS offsets vat paid out to what it receives, so it is reclaimed. It's the law http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Jimmy the Jock
04-01-15, 10:28
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.
Capt. Darling
04-01-15, 10:50
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.Talking absoloute crap about something you dont know about.The tender was under ojeu ,which is pretty detailed and above board and cannot be twisted for suppliers.If the best overall bid wasnt accepted the legal ramifications would have been a nightmare. Just because the NHS bid was cheaper doesnt mean it was the best value for money.
WJ99mobile
04-01-15, 10:56
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.As a public body, they're not allowed to go for anything other than best VFM which is the way it should be.
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Well the law is an ass then.Do you base every purchase on price?
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 11:11
Lisvaneblue It does not work like that, any company registered for VAT including the NHS offsets vat paid out to what it receives, so it is reclaimed. It's the law http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif Ok, but NHS hospitals are not VAT registered
Lisvaneblue It does not work like that, any company registered for VAT including the NHS offsets vat paid out to what it receives, so it is reclaimed. It's the law http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Ok, but NHS hospitals are not VAT registeredI have no idea who is right or wrong here, but in general if Igovernor says it's nighttime it's usually middle of the afternoon. The bloke is wrong on just about everything, but always sounds very convincing. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 11:18
The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.
That's not so. VAT is charged on good purchased by the NHS.
I worked in the drug industry and VAT was added to medicine purchases and this could not be reclaimed by the NHS.Similarly for the scanning service
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 11:22
Lisvaneblue It does not work like that, any company registered for VAT including the NHS offsets vat paid out to what it receives, so it is reclaimed. It's the law http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Ok, but NHS hospitals are not VAT registered
I have no idea who is right or wrong here, but in general if Igovernor says it's nighttime it's usually middle of the day. The bloke is wrong on just about everything, but always sounds very convincing. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif Swings and roundabouts!!
Lisvane blue what makes you think hospitals are not vat registered of course they are
The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.
That's not so. VAT is charged on good purchased by the NHS.
I worked in the drug industry and VAT was added to medicine purchases and this could not be reclaimed by the NHS.
If however a private company provided a service which included the provision of medicines the VAT could be reclaimed. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Eric Cartman
04-01-15, 11:37
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.you really think anyone on this board would rejoice http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sherlock.gif cant see it myself, different views maybe from different posters but only a total bellend would rejoice at the above......... wait hang on, you may be correct http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
An extraordinarily poor effort on the part of the OP, it must be said.
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.This is scaremongering. Most if not all agree that healthcare provision should always be based on need and be free at point of use irrespective of ability to pay.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.It's hardly a lame assumption given that you have totally ignored, or perhaps have no knowledge of, EU public procurement law?
Gwynedd Blue
04-01-15, 12:18
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)An attempt to prop up a failed and anachronistic ideology - public = bad; private = good.
Capt. Darling
04-01-15, 12:25
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
I fecking despair at times.But hes read the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (SI 257) ? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.
I fecking despair at times.
"Absolutely zero knowledge"? What a lame assumption.All 12 pages. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif
No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened.Why do you think it will be a poorer service? Surely as with most contracts there will be some pretty strict SLA's?
GRUMPYS DEN
04-01-15, 12:35
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
<i>A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.Yes-if there had been anything in this DTM and Archie would have been all over this thread.
Dr Tim Muff
04-01-15, 12:45
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.
This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.This year both the RCN and the BMA have discussed charging fees for GP consultations.
Dr Tim Muff
04-01-15, 12:48
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-contract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html)
A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.
The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/rolleyes.gif
Eric Cartman
04-01-15, 13:01
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.
This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.Everyone agrees that people shouldn't have sex with children. It seems that people in positions of power often say one thing in public and do another in private when there is some benefit to themselves...
No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened.
Why do you think it will be a poorer service? Surely as with most contracts there will be some pretty strict SLA's?IME SLA's will tend to waste resource in a pointless fudge-fest.
Wrong Side of the Severn
04-01-15, 13:17
I have no objection to privatisation per se providing it is effective on cost and quality. On the face of it the PFI contracts let by Labour seemed a good idea at the time but years later we find that they have virtually bankrupted the NHS.
As to this specific example in Stoke, if true that is scandalous but we do not know whether the bids were like for like or there were aspects of the contract the NHS bidder could not fulfill.
An earlier poster said this:
"No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened".
That is exactly what has happened in Wales through reductions in expenditure under the Labour controlled NHS.
waynekerr55
04-01-15, 13:29
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.Until we all have a genuine alternative (and no, Farage/Griffin and his ilk are not) then we're all f*cked.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.Farage is "keeping the flame of Thatcherism" so is not an alternative.
Capt. Darling
04-01-15, 13:57
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Like New labour are any better.Then we are ****ed!
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Like New labour are any better.
Until we all have a genuine alternative (and no, Farage/Griffin and his ilk are not) then we're all f*cked.The right wing media (eg Murdoch, the Mail, Express) portray him in a negative way.
waynekerr55
04-01-15, 14:12
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Like New labour are any better.
Until we all have a genuine alternative (and no, Farage/Griffin and his ilk are not) then we're all f*cked.
I agree with Wayne. Only person left is Ed Miliband, who is in a tough position as he'd have to adapt policies to suit both Socialists and Blairites.He doesn't help himself by having captain clueless (Ed Balls) as his 2nd in command.
It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.
Anything to please the Tory donors though.
Like New labour are any better.
Until we all have a genuine alternative (and no, Farage/Griffin and his ilk are not) then we're all f*cked.
I agree with Wayne. Only person left is Ed Miliband, who is in a tough position as he'd have to adapt policies to suit both Socialists and Blairites.I'm sure he's a decent bloke, but I think when running the country we could do with someone who remembers about the fiscal deficit. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.
This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.
This is scaremongering. Most if not all agree that healthcare provision should always be based on need and be free at point of use irrespective of ability to pay.So the doctors and nurses themselves think people should pay for consultations?
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.
This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.
This is scaremongering. Most if not all agree that healthcare provision should always be based on need and be free at point of use irrespective of ability to pay.Do politicians run for office on tickets of child abuse? You're argument is non existent, fancy trying to even compare the two.
No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened.
Why do you think it will be a poorer service? Surely as with most contracts there will be some pretty strict SLA's?
I used to work in a heavily SLA orientated environment - we dealt with a number of other SLA driven agenciesWasn't that the endemic problem from the blair/brown years which messed up public services in the first place?
Trust me Colonel, I know what I'm talking about here. It's the law.
Well the law is an ass then.As most of us already know the law is malleable. A nod, a wink, the disclosing of a secret password and a dodgy handshake will sway things in the right direction. And as proved by May, IDS etc, if they can't win a case that way, they have the ultimate sanction of hastily changing the Statuary Laws. The clue is in the name .. The Crown blah blah blah.
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 16:24
Lisvane blue what makes you think hospitals are not vat registered of course they areI'm very sure that NHS hospitals are not VAT registered for the reasons already outlined. I think the one geographical exception is Northern Ireland where hospital and Social services budgets are better entwined organisationally than in the rest of the UK and
Any organisation that make taxable supplies greater than 81k per annum (or in any 30 day period) need to register for VAT
Jimmy Jimmy
04-01-15, 16:52
As long as you have an effective number of companies bidding for the work - then the NHS will get the best price / service ratio available. With penalty clauses built in when service is not delivered.
Wrong Side of the Severn
04-01-15, 16:56
Any organisation that make taxable supplies greater than 81k per annum (or in any 30 day period) need to register for VAT I seem to recall that central government departments and local authorities are not VAT registered.
Any organisation that make taxable supplies greater than 81k per annum (or in any 30 day period) need to register for VAT
I seem to recall that central government departments and local authorities are not VAT registered.Generally yes because they aren't providing taxable supplies. However where they do provide taxable supplies (pharmacy, catering, commercial rent) then VAT is charged
Eric Cartman
04-01-15, 18:03
Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?
The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.
This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.
This is scaremongering. Most if not all agree that healthcare provision should always be based on need and be free at point of use irrespective of ability to pay.
Everyone agrees that people shouldn't have sex with children. It seems that people in positions of power often say one thing in public and do another in private when there is some benefit to themselves...I'm not comparing the two you tit. I am saying, what politicians say in public is a very different matter to what they are trying to achieve in private...
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 18:41
Any organisation that make taxable supplies greater than 81k per annum (or in any 30 day period) need to register for VAT Any 'private' organisation needs to do that, but not NHS hospitals. They don't make taxable supplies, they are end users by enlarge. Where they have commercial production units these comply as separate business entities. But hospital per se do not have to be VAT registered.
lisvaneblue
04-01-15, 18:44
Any organisation that make taxable supplies greater than 81k per annum (or in any 30 day period) need to register for VAT
I seem to recall that central government departments and local authorities are not VAT registered.
Generally yes because they aren't providing taxable supplies. However where they do provide taxable supplies (pharmacy, catering, commercial rent) then VAT is charged Community pharmacies are of course VAT registered. However they are private contractors, unlike hospital pharmacies that do not have to be registered.
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