View Full Version : Valleys of Trouble. Labour vote slowly collapsing
Anne O'Rack
29-04-15, 12:13
Polling shows that Labour could be in for a shock. Unlike Scotland where it all went SNP it looks like UKIP are making big strides and Plaid/Cons could steal back seats. Labour are in deep sh1t according to this guy.
http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/04/03/valleys-of-trouble-labou rs-difficulties-in-their-welsh-heartland/ (http://sluggerotoole.com/2015/04/03/valleys-of-trouble-labours-difficulties-in-their-welsh-heartland/)
Jimmy Jimmy
29-04-15, 12:18
The Valleys have had nothing but Labour at the WAG, Labour in Europe, Labour on local councils and Labour MPs.
You could put a red rosette on a dog turd and it would get voted in.
You'll get the dog turd you deserve - just like Kevin Brennan (and his extra large wide screen TV) will no doubt get back in at Cardiff.
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Matthew Paris has a more balanced and fair view of the valleys in the Times today btw.
Anne O'Rack
29-04-15, 12:31
Matthew Paris has a more balanced and fair view of the valleys in the Times today btw.Could you paste it here?
Matthew Paris has a more balanced and fair view of the valleys in the Times today btw.
Could you paste it here?I read the actual paper.
Matthew Paris has a more balanced and fair view of the valleys in the Times today btw.
Could you paste it here?
Sorry the Times online has a " paywall " and I don't subscribe.Can you re-type it here please? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/getmycoat.gif
If voters in the valleys who have traditionally voted Labour , and rightly given the social history of the valleys, and decide to vote elsewhere then UKIP is probably not the likely choice. These Labour voters I would imagine would turn to either Liberal Democrat of Plaid Cymru as a natural choice. I think a few more ecology conscious ones would turn to Green, and in some constituencies some who feel that Labour have moved to far to the right have choices in some places of Social Labour Party and Trade Union candidates. The only question will be the size of the Labour majority virtually everywhere and an interest in the number of votes cast for the other parties. I actually think the Labour vote will strengthen, and Plaid too with more people turning out in this election to cast their anti Tory vote.
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is minisculePeople will always choose to blame someone else other than themselves, as it's the easy thing to do.
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda. dont agree with the ukip support is strongest in places where migration is lowest bit, ukip have a strong following in suffolk and essex where migration is high as evidenced by a clacton mp
Matthew Paris has a more balanced and fair view of the valleys in the Times today btw.
Could you paste it here?
Sorry the Times online has a " paywall " and I don't subscribe.
I read the actual paper.Sorry but no , take too long.
Matthew Paris has a more balanced and fair view of the valleys in the Times today btw.
Could you paste it here?
Sorry the Times online has a " paywall " and I don't subscribe.
I read the actual paper.
Can you re-type it here please? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/getmycoat.gif A Polish guy would have done it by now, bloody lazy British
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda.
Secondly, I've spoken to a few people who genuinely believe that if the UK saved the money from EU membership, that they'd give it to Wales instead. Don't ask me why they think that,because in my opinion it's a ridiculous argument. If they gave us the money we needed anyway, we wouldn't need EU funding.check out the map here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11539388/Mapped-where-is-Ukips-support-strongest-Where-there-are-no-immigrants.html)
Thirdly, there is a huge trend going on, that the places where ukip support is strongest tend to be the places were immigration is lowest. once again, I don't know why, but could be to do with offering people someone to blame for hard times. Hence there are more people sympathetic to UKIP's policy in places like coastal Lincolnshire, Essex and Kent.
I think the replies to the blog say more tbh
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is minisculec) A lot of people living in these areas don't mix with foreign nationals because there aren't that many around. Obviously, they think the foreigners are a bad influence on their area because of job cuts, "they come here taking our jobs", all that sort of thing even though they have nothing to do with it.
Riled Taff
29-04-15, 13:47
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda. I might be being a bit simple, but surely that would have to be the case. Areas where immigration is high will have lots of immigrants. Turkeys generally don't vote for Christmas?
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is minisculeI came across a conversation about why I'm voting UKIP, when asked why, I was offered "" these foreigners are taking our jobs"" I then asked what their thoughts were on the Welsh born white folk who live amongst us and don't take up vacancies in such industries such as hotel , cleaning,food production roles, which carry anti social hours and tough conditions , and perhaps that needs to be sorted firstly before beating up on migrant workers?
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda.
Secondly, I've spoken to a few people who genuinely believe that if the UK saved the money from EU membership, that they'd give it to Wales instead. Don't ask me why they think that,because in my opinion it's a ridiculous argument. If they gave us the money we needed anyway, we wouldn't need EU funding.
Thirdly, there is a huge trend going on, that the places where ukip support is strongest tend to be the places were immigration is lowest. once again, I don't know why, but could be to do with offering people someone to blame for hard times. interesting map of those born abroad. what is the appendage sticking out of the Bristol Channel?
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda.
Secondly, I've spoken to a few people who genuinely believe that if the UK saved the money from EU membership, that they'd give it to Wales instead. Don't ask me why they think that,because in my opinion it's a ridiculous argument. If they gave us the money we needed anyway, we wouldn't need EU funding.
Thirdly, there is a huge trend going on, that the places where ukip support is strongest tend to be the places were immigration is lowest. once again, I don't know why, but could be to do with offering people someone to blame for hard times.
People will always choose to blame someone else other than themselves, as it's the easy thing to do.I don't know
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda.
Secondly, I've spoken to a few people who genuinely believe that if the UK saved the money from EU membership, that they'd give it to Wales instead. Don't ask me why they think that,because in my opinion it's a ridiculous argument. If they gave us the money we needed anyway, we wouldn't need EU funding.
Thirdly, there is a huge trend going on, that the places where ukip support is strongest tend to be the places were immigration is lowest. once again, I don't know why, but could be to do with offering people someone to blame for hard times.
People will always choose to blame someone else other than themselves, as it's the easy thing to do.
dont agree with the ukip support is strongest in places where migration is lowest bit, ukip have a strong following in suffolk and essex where migration is high as evidenced by a clacton mp The bastards.
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Because a lot of folk in the Valleys are thick as shite, not to mention racist, even if it might be institutional. However I would challenge the quote ""thick as shite" as I have heard reasonable intelligent folk quote the UKIP mantra , always thought a right wing element existed in the supposed Labour heartland of Wales,just didn't surface and vote old Tebbit Tory in enough numbers.
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda.
Secondly, I've spoken to a few people who genuinely believe that if the UK saved the money from EU membership, that they'd give it to Wales instead. Don't ask me why they think that,because in my opinion it's a ridiculous argument. If they gave us the money we needed anyway, we wouldn't need EU funding.If you think that the numbers of immigrants are so high that they are drowning out the voting intentions of the people born here in all areas other than those with the lowest population then you're as barking as far age.
Anne O'Rack
29-04-15, 14:29
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Because a lot of folk in the Valleys are thick as shite, not to mention racist, even if it might be institutional.
They can see UKIP as an attractive choice because:That is a pretty nasty thing to say. What about the Ely race riots? Was Ely part of the Cynon Valley back then I take it? There are pockets of racism everywhere but some of the warmest and welcoming people I know are from the valleys. Picking one example and branding an entire region as racist is below the belt and bloody ignorant.
Matthew Paris has a more balanced and fair view of the valleys in the Times today btw. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/ayatollah.gif
babyloncardiff
29-04-15, 14:57
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Because a lot of folk in the Valleys are thick as shite, not to mention racist, even if it might be institutional.
They can see UKIP as an attractive choice because:
a) There are very few jobs in the valleys and they can blame immigrants for this - the correlation? There is no correlation. Cardiff has had anti-Chinese riots (1911). Tredegar, Ebbw Vale and other Valleys towns have had anti-semitic riots (also 1911).
babyloncardiff
29-04-15, 14:59
Polling shows that Labour could be in for a shock. Unlike Scotland where it all went SNP it looks like UKIP are making big strides and Plaid/Cons could steal back seats. Labour are in deep sh1t according to this guy.What votes Labour lose to Ukip will surely be made up for by those they gain from disillusioned Lib Dems.
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda.
Secondly, I've spoken to a few people who genuinely believe that if the UK saved the money from EU membership, that they'd give it to Wales instead. Don't ask me why they think that,because in my opinion it's a ridiculous argument. If they gave us the money we needed anyway, we wouldn't need EU funding.
Thirdly, there is a huge trend going on, that the places where ukip support is strongest tend to be the places were immigration is lowest. once again, I don't know why, but could be to do with offering people someone to blame for hard times. the reason that norfolk, cambs, lincolnshire etc are strong ukip areas is because they have a large amount of eastern european migrants, larger than most parts of the uk, they work for shit money in agriculture and tourism (broads/fens) there are more eastern european people in wisbech, peterborough etc than most towns, these migrants are the most recent large scale influx into the uk and some people in that area feel uneasy about the sheer numbers,
JamesWales
29-04-15, 15:35
I can see why for historical and cultural reasons, that the Valleys tend to support Labour and not the Tories, but seriously, what the hell have Labour done for the Valleys in the last few decades?
It begins with F and ends with all.
I hate to sound harsh, but one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
The Valleys always vote Labour, and the Valleys continues it's state of economic underperformance.
If I'm honest, from down here, I think the Labour party take the piss out of the valleys, and to raise their game, a kick up the arse wouldn't go amiss.
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Because a lot of folk in the Valleys are thick as shite, not to mention racist, even if it might be institutional.
They can see UKIP as an attractive choice because:
a) There are very few jobs in the valleys and they can blame immigrants for this - the correlation? There is no correlation. And you never offer sweeping , salivary generalisms do you? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/rolleyes.gif
babyloncardiff
29-04-15, 15:46
I can see why for historical and cultural reasons, that the Valleys tend to support Labour and not the Tories, but seriously, what the hell have Labour done for the Valleys in the last few decades?Couldn't agree with you more. Labour take the Valleys for granted. People will vote for them come what may so there is no real incentive for Labour to improve their lot. Keep 'em poor keep 'em voting Labour.
I can see why for historical and cultural reasons, that the Valleys tend to support Labour and not the Tories, but seriously, what the hell have Labour done for the Valleys in the last few decades?What's the quote?... "If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it".
I can see why for historical and cultural reasons, that the Valleys tend to support Labour and not the Tories, but seriously, what the hell have Labour done for the Valleys in the last few decades?
It begins with F and ends with all. They are entrenched areas , existing in a place where the very reason for their existence has long vanished.
babyloncardiff
29-04-15, 15:57
I can see why for historical and cultural reasons, that the Valleys tend to support Labour and not the Tories, but seriously, what the hell have Labour done for the Valleys in the last few decades?
It begins with F and ends with all.
I hate to sound harsh, but one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.Some architect bloke in the paper a few weeks back was suggesting people in the Valleys should all move closer to Cardiff. Quite like the idea of everyone in the Gurnos turning up in Lisvane, Cyncoed and Rhiwbina. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/smiley.gif
Wrong Side of the Severn
29-04-15, 16:37
Labour has taken the Welsh vote for granted and have let Wales down. It is difficult to argue otherwise. The Barnett formula devised by Labour's former Chief Secretary to the Treasury favoured Scotland and if it wasn't for the EU handing Wales crumbs in terms of Regional assistance, due to its deprivation and being amongst the poorest areas of the EU, Wales would flounder even more.
Labour's record for Wales (and the Tories for that matter) has been poor. But if the Labour Party could be made to realise that that support could no longer be guaranteed then they might actually do something about it. A vote for Plaid would not be wasted in terms of a protest vote.
Anne O'Rack
29-04-15, 18:22
Labour has taken the Welsh vote for granted and have let Wales down. It is difficult to argue otherwise. The Barnett formula devised by Labour's former Chief Secretary to the Treasury favoured Scotland and if it wasn't for the EU handing Wales crumbs in terms of Regional assistance, due to its deprivation and being amongst the poorest areas of the EU, Wales would flounder even more.Everyone jumps up and down about EU money. But what has it done for the poor? Or for jobs? Or for schools? We are still the worst off area in europe. It's gesture money but what has it changed for people's lives?
saddle sniffer
29-04-15, 18:36
Labour has taken the Welsh vote for granted and have let Wales down. It is difficult to argue otherwise. The Barnett formula devised by Labour's former Chief Secretary to the Treasury favoured Scotland and if it wasn't for the EU handing Wales crumbs in terms of Regional assistance, due to its deprivation and being amongst the poorest areas of the EU, Wales would flounder even more.
Labour's record for Wales (and the Tories for that matter) has been poor. But if the Labour Party could be made to realise that that support could no longer be guaranteed then they might actually do something about it. A vote for Plaid would not be wasted in terms of a protest vote.Jobs you say? Are you one of the typical valleys folk that enjoy cheap housing and council tax but are outraged at the thought you might have to commute a little further than your doorstep?
The Penguin
29-04-15, 19:06
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda. When South Wales wakes up and realises Labour is a con Wales has a chÃ*nce. Electric rail line will save the Welsh economy? Tell that to people in Merthyr and Rhyl.
Labour has taken the Welsh vote for granted and have let Wales down. It is difficult to argue otherwise. The Barnett formula devised by Labour's former Chief Secretary to the Treasury favoured Scotland and if it wasn't for the EU handing Wales crumbs in terms of Regional assistance, due to its deprivation and being amongst the poorest areas of the EU, Wales would flounder even more.
Labour's record for Wales (and the Tories for that matter) has been poor. But if the Labour Party could be made to realise that that support could no longer be guaranteed then they might actually do something about it. A vote for Plaid would not be wasted in terms of a protest vote.I'd doesn't matter how much money it throw at an incompetent leader, he'll still be crap. Labour don't have a clue, and waste the money that's given to us.
Eric the Half a Bee
29-04-15, 22:18
I get the dissatisfaction with labour, but why would the valleys turn to ukip? Wales gets a decent amount of European funding, if the UK grabbed it all back do you think they'd spend any of it here? Also the level of immigration in the valleys is miniscule
Too answer the first question, ukip are a popular anti establishment choice at the moment. The valleys are run down, and ukip are offering someone to blame. Every will buy it if they are desperate enough. I would be surprised if everyone knew how much money we got from the EU, as it's kept relatively quiet compared to the mass media attention given to farage and his anti EU agenda.
Secondly, I've spoken to a few people who genuinely believe that if the UK saved the money from EU membership, that they'd give it to Wales instead. Don't ask me why they think that,because in my opinion it's a ridiculous argument. If they gave us the money we needed anyway, we wouldn't need EU funding.Agreed but what are the options without causing more problems for the underprivilidged valleys?
Eric the Half a Bee
29-04-15, 22:19
Labour has taken the Welsh vote for granted and have let Wales down. It is difficult to argue otherwise. The Barnett formula devised by Labour's former Chief Secretary to the Treasury favoured Scotland and if it wasn't for the EU handing Wales crumbs in terms of Regional assistance, due to its deprivation and being amongst the poorest areas of the EU, Wales would flounder even more.
Labour's record for Wales (and the Tories for that matter) has been poor. But if the Labour Party could be made to realise that that support could no longer be guaranteed then they might actually do something about it. A vote for Plaid would not be wasted in terms of a protest vote.
Everyone jumps up and down about EU money. But what has it done for the poor? Or for jobs? Or for schools? We are still the worst off area in europe. It's gesture money but what has it changed for people's lives?Plaid would waste lots more given the chance. They're even more left wing and would spend lots more on research into independence and language projects.
Labour has taken the Welsh vote for granted and have let Wales down. It is difficult to argue otherwise. The Barnett formula devised by Labour's former Chief Secretary to the Treasury favoured Scotland and if it wasn't for the EU handing Wales crumbs in terms of Regional assistance, due to its deprivation and being amongst the poorest areas of the EU, Wales would flounder even more.
Labour's record for Wales (and the Tories for that matter) has been poor. But if the Labour Party could be made to realise that that support could no longer be guaranteed then they might actually do something about it. A vote for Plaid would not be wasted in terms of a protest vote.
Everyone jumps up and down about EU money. But what has it done for the poor? Or for jobs? Or for schools? We are still the worst off area in europe. It's gesture money but what has it changed for people's lives?
I'd doesn't matter how much money it throw at an incompetent leader, he'll still be crap. Labour don't have a clue, and waste the money that's given to us. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
Labour has taken the Welsh vote for granted and have let Wales down. It is difficult to argue otherwise. The Barnett formula devised by Labour's former Chief Secretary to the Treasury favoured Scotland and if it wasn't for the EU handing Wales crumbs in terms of Regional assistance, due to its deprivation and being amongst the poorest areas of the EU, Wales would flounder even more.
Labour's record for Wales (and the Tories for that matter) has been poor. But if the Labour Party could be made to realise that that support could no longer be guaranteed then they might actually do something about it. A vote for Plaid would not be wasted in terms of a protest vote.
Everyone jumps up and down about EU money. But what has it done for the poor? Or for jobs? Or for schools? We are still the worst off area in europe. It's gesture money but what has it changed for people's lives?
I'd doesn't matter how much money it throw at an incompetent leader, he'll still be crap. Labour don't have a clue, and waste the money that's given to us.Your post is your opinion, my post is fact.
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