View Full Version : Hilary Benn Speech
Anyone caught this speech , wow , a brave man under the cosh of many who have tried to pressure those Labour MP'S who defied Corbyn's view ,may have won the day , lets see if he gets deselected http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmassherlock.gif
Anyone caught this speech , wow , a brave man under the cosh of many who have tried to pressure those Labour MP'S who defied Corbyn's view ,may have won the day , lets see if he gets deselected http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmassherlock.gif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS30EM7iC7Q
Anyone caught this speech , wow , a brave man under the cosh of many who have tried to pressure those Labour MP'S who defied Corbyn's view ,may have won the day , lets see if he gets deselected http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmassherlock.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS30EM7iC7Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS30EM7iC7Q)You have to worry when decent socialist such as Hilary Benn and Alan Johnson had to brave this out in the face of far left intimation , just because they wanted to make a speak freely and vote democratically.
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.
Ragboneor far right http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmasthumbup.gif
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.Definitely. They are two sides of the same coin
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.
or far right http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmasthumbup.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
archibald leitch
03-12-15, 14:37
RagboneWhat has the far left got to do with this?
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.secondly, for someone who claims he is not far left, you go out of your way to defend them often enough
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.
What has the far left got to do with this? I don't think so, Joe had balls and was up for a fight
archibald leitch
03-12-15, 17:46
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.
What has the far left got to do with this? I have not defended anyone. I simply asked a question because I don't know what it has to do with the far left
RagboneHis message to Hilary Benn and all the others of his ilk: 'You're not fit to wear the shirt'!
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.
What has the far left got to do with this?
firstly, I did not mention the far left first, Ragbone did. So perhaps you should stop being so blinkered and ask the person who referenced them first.why not ask Ragbone rather than me, you might get an answer then
Do you think our dogging friend knows that the SNP and Plaid are Nationalist parties in Scotland and Wales then Jon ?
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.To deny East Germany, the USSR, China etc were not hard left is overlooking how political systems operate in reality.
Ragbone
The problem with the far left is that they are anything other than democratic. It's either their way or line up and be shot. Dissent and free will is usually not tolerated and suppressed with brutal efficiency. we have seen this in every far left society that humans have had to endure.
What has the far left got to do with this?
firstly, I did not mention the far left first, Ragbone did. So perhaps you should stop being so blinkered and ask the person who referenced them first.
secondly, for someone who claims he is not far left, you go out of your way to defend them often enoughThe thrust of the post has been dissected somewhat, Corbyn and his bully troops, are much further left than Johnson and Benn's socialist views , and have resorted to tactics to thrust their far left views onto others . I don't think someone like Alan Johnson who was a decent trade let center unionist would stand up in Parliament and comment if this was not happening .
Like most of the press (and a good part of the PLP) you are very loose with your labels and definitions. I think it's worth challenging you every now and again - but I won't make a habit of it.
I agree that the deformed and degenerated Stalinist/Maoist states were (are in the case of China etc) oppressive and totalitarian. When I was forming my political views and was much more active than now, I saw these states and their leaderships as enemies of socialism and enemies of communism.
Most of the people that you label as 'far left' or 'hard left' (you used both terms) would have been imprisoned or shot in the states that you imply share their views and opinions. Or brained with an ice pick if the assassination happened to be in Mexico!
On the OP - I think Hilary Benn's speech was excellent oratory and clearly won him many plaudits. I disagree with almost all of what he said when he moved on from Spain to Syria. Anyone trying to intimidate Labour MPs who backed the government - whether on social media or in person - is a fool and self-defeating. However, compared to the inevitable pain and suffering for innocent civilians that will follow from the Parliamentary vote, and the probability of even more barriers to a future political settlement, the discomfort of a few MPs faced with a reselection battle over their public stance on bombing is a minor consideration. It seems to be the main focus of BBC reporting, though.
Corbyn and his allies have condemned the intimidation and threats as well. As they should.
Like most of the press (and a good part of the PLP) you are very loose with your labels and definitions. I think it's worth challenging you every now and again - but I won't make a habit of it.Feel free to challenge , its enjoyable on a wet and windy night , watched Dag yet ???
Dag is absolutely brilliant!
The writers take it right to the limit, then go the extra step just to see if they can get away with it.
It helps that the cast are so good - the support characters as well as the leads.
I'm over half way through Series 3 and 100% hooked. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmasthumbup.gif
archibald leitch
03-12-15, 22:28
Far left politics is relating to a person or group favoring radical, reforming, or socialist views. Ah - now i get it, when you say far left you simply mean anyone left of centre. Makes a lot of sense now (cos that is not what the definition of far left is)
What is the definition of far left archie?
archibald leitch
04-12-15, 20:44
What is the definition of far left archie?mosey on over here (http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=4563010&rid=7314#msg_4563010)
alfie sherwood
06-12-15, 18:49
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago. And deeper within his party are some very radical supporting troops,that are nowhere considered centralised socialists.
archibald leitch
06-12-15, 19:58
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality. I know plenty on the far left and they would not be seen dead in the Labour Party.
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left? There are also a lot of left leaning folk now in and outside the party trying to change it axis.
alfie sherwood
06-12-15, 22:11
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality. Don't buy the bullshit quite so readily http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif
alfie sherwood
06-12-15, 22:20
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery. You seem to want Labour to actually be a slightly less nasty version of the Conservative party so that you can still express your right of centre views but not actually have the associated guilt of voting Tory! Just bite the bullet and vote for the Tories but imo, if the only role for Labour is to be a 'small c Conservative party' they might a well chuck it all in.
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
If Corbyn is a social democrat why hasn't he joined that party.You have just convinced me, I will . http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/wave.gif
SLUDGE FACTORY
06-12-15, 23:57
Ragbone is a Tory
Simple as
No faux pissing about fools me
A ****ing Tory boy now he thinks he's done the old when I was young I used to vote labour but now .....
Pmsl , I wouldn't rather wear soiled pants for a year than vote Tory , the ****s
Ragbone is a Tory Only 2 types of people vote Tory - arseholes and idiots
alfie sherwood
07-12-15, 08:36
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
If Corbyn is a social democrat why hasn't he joined that party.
Think Shirley Williams and David Owen might disagree.In all seriousness, I think you probably should. You describe yourself as a socialist but in reality your views have always come across as solidly centre right (fair enough, nothing wrong with that, there's no point in voting for a party that doesn't reflect your opinions http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif ).
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left? Corbyn is no social democrat. He is no adenauer that's for sure.
Ragbone is a Tory
Simple as That's a very well thought out and reasoned argument.
Croesy here I come. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/malky.gif
alfie sherwood
07-12-15, 09:14
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery. Yes, Corbyn is a traditional social democrat, not in the mould of relative right wingers like Shirley Williams, David Owen and Roy Jenkins who wore the social democratic 'badge' as it enabled them to feel more comfortable with the realities of their personal politics.
alfie sherwood
07-12-15, 09:18
Ragbone is a Tory
Simple as There were also some courageous speeches from a number of Tories last week against the airstrikes. No easy thing to do when your party overwhelmingly supports military action.
alfie sherwood
07-12-15, 09:23
Croesy here I come. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/malky.gif Hang on, let's not go overboard here...I think you are a moderate Tory, not a hard right winger like Croesy http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashehe.gif
archibald leitch
07-12-15, 09:27
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery. Where someone lies on the political spectrum is where someone lies on the political spectrum. Public perception does not change that. Neither Alfie or myself are making a judgement based on our own prejudices but based on knowledge of politics. You might not like that but it is a fact none the less.
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
If Corbyn is a social democrat why hasn't he joined that party.Thankfully, we have well balanced individuals such as yourself to tell us like it really is in a non patronising manner. However would the pleibians cope without your impartial intervention?
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
If Corbyn is a social democrat why hasn't he joined that party.Where someone lies is immutable. That is not what we are discussing though. We are discussing definition of the political spectrum though and you may not like it but your position comes across as far left, hence anyone is going to appear moderate compared to your own positioning.
Croesy here I come. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/malky.gif
Hang on, let's not go overboard here...I think you are a moderate Tory, not a hard right winger like Croesy http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashehe.gif Phew , not got many friends at the best of times http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashehe.gif
Ragbone is a Tory
Simple as
No faux pissing about fools me yes and a very complex summary, hence my delay in replying to the deeper content of the message . http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmasrubchin.gif
archibald leitch
07-12-15, 19:37
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
If Corbyn is a social democrat why hasn't he joined that party.
Think Shirley Williams and David Owen might disagree.Well actually,, we were not discussing the definitions of the political spectrum, I created a seperate thread for that and you have chisen to not engage with it. You might want to claim Corbyn is far left based on YOUR position on the spectrum anyone who considered it objectively (something you appear incapable of) will conclude he is simply a moderate. Sorry about that but themes the facts.
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
If Corbyn is a social democrat why hasn't he joined that party.
Think Shirley Williams and David Owen might disagree.
<b>Think in most people's minds Corbyn is considered much further left from the centre than you think.corbyn is not a moderate, not by any stretch of the imagination
archibald leitch
08-12-15, 17:11
corbyn is not a moderate, not by any stretch of the imaginationThen perhaps tell us which of his polices are not moderate.
alfie sherwood
08-12-15, 18:30
corbyn is not a moderate, not by any stretch of the imaginationI don't see him as a prime minister in waiting but his election as leader has already widened debate from the extremely narrow parameters to which it was previously confined (Farage has also done the same in my view). It needed to happen for the good of our democracy. I hope eventually a more natural leader emerges from within the Labour Party who is able to continue the move away from the dark stain of the Blair years and better convey genuinely progressive ideas.
My sides are splitting reading this 'far left' nonsense from Ragbone. I wouldn't even describe Corbyn as a socialist, despite the fact that he romantically describes himself as one and Hilary Benn abandoned any such notion years ago.
Corbyn, I regard as a social democrat in the traditional sense and Benn is a compassionate 'small c' conservative. They would both dislike such tags but that is the reality.
There is obviously a huge, wide ranging Labour Party debate which is going to take place (in public...) over the coming months and years and it'll be a battle for the soul of the party. Will the neoliberal 'compassionate conservatives' win or the old school 'social democrats' on the left?
As a footnote, Hilary Benn's speech was a wonderful piece of parliamentary oratory. One would have to look far and wide for a better, more theatrical HoC speech. The problem is - and it's the case with many such speeches - the content didn't match the delivery.
If Corbyn is a social democrat why hasn't he joined that party.
Think Shirley Williams and David Owen might disagree.
Think in most people's minds Corbyn is considered much further left from the centre than you think.
He is we have been told so , cant get a comment though on his background boys and girls and appointments who are very active at the moment,both verbally , trolling and demonstrating outside moderate Labour constituency buildings , nice open new age politics .
alfie sherwood
08-12-15, 18:43
Ragbone - Corbyn has condemned bullying from various factions within the Labour Party several times over recent days:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns- bullying-mps-6943425 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-bullying-mps-6943425)
Ragbone - Corbyn has condemned bullying from various factions within the Labour Party several times over recent days:Very sad indeed .
alfie sherwood
08-12-15, 21:46
Ragbone - Corbyn has condemned bullying from various factions within the Labour Party several times over recent days:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns- bullying-mps-6943425 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-bullying-mps-6943425)I should point out that I have absolutely no affiliation or emotional attachment to the Labour Party, but I follow a number of the venomous buggers on Twitter for a bit of light entertainment. I think they are currently one step away from burning effigies of Corbyn! Bonkers. They are utterly consumed, silly sods.
Ragbone - Corbyn has condemned bullying from various factions within the Labour Party several times over recent days:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns- bullying-mps-6943425 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-bullying-mps-6943425)
Well he wouldn't he, the question you have to ask yourself with a neutral hat on , did the higher circle really not know this behaviour wasn't happening ? once they were allowed a free vote in goes the shock troops , if decent politicians like Alan Johnson feel the need to stand up in the house of commons to point out what was going on you have to worry about the parties freedom of speech and decision .If I was him I would reshuffle them out , no move those who spoke against his view on the Syrian decision,that would make him a better man in my view .
alfie sherwood
08-12-15, 22:24
Ragbone - Corbyn has condemned bullying from various factions within the Labour Party several times over recent days:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns- bullying-mps-6943425 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-bullying-mps-6943425)
Well he wouldn't he, the question you have to ask yourself with a neutral hat on , did the higher circle really not know this behaviour wasn't happening ? once they were allowed a free vote in goes the shock troops , if decent politicians like Alan Johnson feel the need to stand up in the house of commons to point out what was going on you have to worry about the parties freedom of speech and decision .
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views. Strange call that one when you consider the number of times Ken Livingstone ,Jeremy Corby , Diane Abbot and John McDonnell have voted against the Labour party over the years. There are also some major debates that need to be had within the party that are genuine issues to people on the doorsteps like concentrated immigration putting serious pressure on public services. Also, whether to continue to blindly back EU membership which has drifted an awfully long way from its original purpose. Likewise unequivocal support for NATO, which has evolved into something all together less wholesome over the years. Big topics that I hope Labour don't tip-toe around.
archibald leitch
08-12-15, 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views. I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.It doesn't sound like a party that is working as one. It's treading treacle. I just don't think the likes of Ken ,Diane help it in anyway, as they seem bound by the sound of their own voices and public appearances on TV and in the media . Labour needs them gone,if it wants to move on.
archibald leitch
09-12-15, 06:44
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views. I think they are outnumbered by the people briefing against Corbyn. At least Ken and co are on the same page as the wider party membership. If anyone needs to go it is those not on the same page.
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.there is a very clear disconnect between the PLP and the party members and the party members and the electorate. That is something that needs to be remembered as it is not the members who elect the MPs.
archibald leitch
09-12-15, 13:23
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.
It doesn't sound like a party that is working as one. It's treading treacle. I just don't think the likes of Ken ,Diane help it in anyway, as they seem bound by the sound of their own voices and public appearances on TV and in the media . Labour needs them gone,if it wants to move on.I'm not sure that is true. The election of Corbyn resulted in a massive Increase in Labour party membership. You might not like him but clearly a considerable number of the voting public do.
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.
It doesn't sound like a party that is working as one. It's treading treacle. I just don't think the likes of Ken ,Diane help it in anyway, as they seem bound by the sound of their own voices and public appearances on TV and in the media . Labour needs them gone,if it wants to move on.
I think they are outnumbered by the people briefing against Corbyn. At least Ken and co are on the same page as the wider party membership. If anyone needs to go it is those not on the same page. http://www.independent.co.uk/news-14-5/the-jeremy-corbyn-pol icies-that-most-people-actually-agree-with-10407148.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news-14-5/the-jeremy-corbyn-policies-that-most-people-actually-agree-with-10407148.html)
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.
It doesn't sound like a party that is working as one. It's treading treacle. I just don't think the likes of Ken ,Diane help it in anyway, as they seem bound by the sound of their own voices and public appearances on TV and in the media . Labour needs them gone,if it wants to move on.
I think they are outnumbered by the people briefing against Corbyn. At least Ken and co are on the same page as the wider party membership. If anyone needs to go it is those not on the same page. Labour party membership is around 500k or so, around 10m or so voted for Labour at the last election. so that means Labour party members make up around 5% of the total number of those that voted.
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.
It doesn't sound like a party that is working as one. It's treading treacle. I just don't think the likes of Ken ,Diane help it in anyway, as they seem bound by the sound of their own voices and public appearances on TV and in the media . Labour needs them gone,if it wants to move on.
I think they are outnumbered by the people briefing against Corbyn. At least Ken and co are on the same page as the wider party membership. If anyone needs to go it is those not on the same page.
they may be on the same page as the party membership, but they're in a different library altogether to the electorate that voted labour.i wonder what the graph would say about whether we bomb Syria? the independent are being selective with their graphs. there are clearly moire than 9 issues facing the UK so why not show graphs for every single one rather than the ones your chosen media want us to see?
archibald leitch
09-12-15, 17:24
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.
It doesn't sound like a party that is working as one. It's treading treacle. I just don't think the likes of Ken ,Diane help it in anyway, as they seem bound by the sound of their own voices and public appearances on TV and in the media . Labour needs them gone,if it wants to move on.
I think they are outnumbered by the people briefing against Corbyn. At least Ken and co are on the same page as the wider party membership. If anyone needs to go it is those not on the same page.
they may be on the same page as the party membership, but they're in a different library altogether to the electorate that voted labour.There is a very different leader for the Labour party now, many of those that did vote labour may not now, but many who did not vote labour will now. All conjecture but i think it is fair to say that you cant really draw any serious conclusions from the 10m who vote Labour under Milliband at the last election.
archibald leitch wrote in the same page as the wider party memben Tue, 08 December 2015 23:27
And then following that the next day we have Ken Livingstone talking ( in his words ) about de - selection for those defying the leader views.
I dont think that is quite what he said. As i understood it he was suggesting de-selection of MPs that do not represent the views of the constituency party. That sounds extremely healthy to me and should be the norm.
It doesn't sound like a party that is working as one. It's treading treacle. I just don't think the likes of Ken ,Diane help it in anyway, as they seem bound by the sound of their own voices and public appearances on TV and in the media . Labour needs them gone,if it wants to move on.
I think they are outnumbered by the people briefing against Corbyn. At least Ken and co are on the same page as the wider party membership. If anyone needs to go it is those not on the same page.
they may be on the same page as the party membership, but they're in a different library altogether to the electorate that voted labour.
there is a very clear disconnect between the PLP and the party members and the party members and the electorate. That is something that needs to be remembered as it is not the members who elect the MPs.They are the extreme positions in both cases, but I've used them to show that in either case 500k members is still a small percentage compared to the overall numbers who will vote labour.
archibald leitch
09-12-15, 18:00
Do you really think 9.5m who voted labour last time aren't going to vote labour now? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
I don't think even all of the alleged 500k new labour members ? will actually vote Labour next time round , it attracted all types some genuine , some loons , some devious ones , some may not even be socialists , the list needs to be purged.
You definitely said you can't draw any conclusions from the 10m or so who voted labour/milliband last time. I'd hazard a guess a lot of them will vote labour next time.
For reference I made it clear I was using the extreme in either situation to make a point. Once again a pertinent point went right over your head.
archibald leitch
10-12-15, 17:47
You definitely said you can't draw any conclusions from the 10m or so who voted. labour/milliband last time. I'd hazard a guess a lot of them will vote labour next time.I am not disputing what I said. I am disputing what you said I said, cos I did not say it. your point was niether pertinent or relevant
You definitely said you can't draw any conclusions from the 10m or so who voted. labour/milliband last time. I'd hazard a guess a lot of them will vote labour next time.
For reference I made it clear I was using the extreme in either situation to make a point. Once again a pertinent point went right over your head.Of course it was relevant, you just can't see it.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.