Chauffer driven cars for the socialists, while there are homeless people on our streets

[TH63]

As long as I'm all-right Jack

I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)

[Feedback]

As long as I'm all-right Jacksaying that in the socialist and communist dictatorships of the old eastern bloc the politicians used to have special cars and driving lanes just for them so there may be a degree of truth in this after all.

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Maybe Carwyn thinks he is the PM of Wales?

The other laughable thing is that they are now announcing they are increasing spending on the Welsh NHS - having reduced spending on it over the last few years

is there an election coming up down the bay ? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmassherlock.gif

I happened to flick through the channels last night - and BBC politics was showing the first ministers questions - oh my goodness - it was embarrassing - Carwyn reading verbose from his prepared script, most AM's were on their laptops - the only funny thing was that Carwyn was being interpreted in a woman's voice!!! lovely lovely lovely

[tommy31]

Just standard Labour innit

[archibald leitch]

As long as I'm all-right JackNot sure what you want me yo say, I am not a Labour supporter or a government supporter for that matter.

[TH63]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and ArchieThe Welsh labour party isn't socialist? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif

[Feedback]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archieare you saying you're a socialist now?

[archibald leitch]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)Well no, of course not http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif

[archibald leitch]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)No. And have not said anything to indicate that i have said that.

[Feedback]

My bad - you came wading in asking what this has to do with socialists - you appeared to be getting defensive.

[Feedback]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)
And what has this got to do with socialists? It has socialism as a core principle, it doesn't have the power to enact all that it wants.

[archibald leitch]

My bad - you came wading in asking what this has to do with socialists - you appeared to be getting defensive. Did you read the title of the thread before you opened it?

[archibald leitch]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)
And what has this got to do with socialists?
Not sure what you want me yo say, I am not a Labour supporter or a government supporter for that matter. The Labour party ditched its socialist core (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause_IV) at their conference in 1995.

[Feedback]

1. Of course I read the thread title, I just asked why you were defending socialists if as you claim you aren't one.

2. We are talking welsh labour who have clear red water between them and uk labour

[archibald leitch]

1. I defended no one - simply asked a question

2. being to the left of westminster hardly makes us a socialist utopia

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Archie - who did you vote for at the last UK election - and who will you vote for at the WAG elections next year ?

[ragbone]

Labour MP Diane Abbott has said sending her son to a £10,000-a-year private school instead of a comprehensive is "indefensible".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3229453.stm

[Feedback]

1. I defended no one - simply asked a question2. They are socialist. Nqat. They would take us even further left if they could.

[archibald leitch]

1. I defended no one - simply asked a question
2. being to the left of westminster hardly makes us a socialist utopia 2: they can take us further left- they are in power ffs. but choose not to

[Feedback]

Welsh labour can only take us as left as the law allows. Thankfully they are restricted from delivering any further leftward shift. Wales is already at the bottom of the economic table as it is, any further shift left would see the inevitable falling further behind.

[TH63]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)
And what has this got to do with socialists? http://www.labour.org.uk/pages/how-we-work http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif

[Jimmy Jimmy]

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashehe.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/wave.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif

[archibald leitch]

Welsh labour can only take us as left as the law allows. Thankfully they are restricted from delivering any further leftward shift. Wales is already at the bottom of the economic table as it is, any further shift left would see the inevitable falling further behind.Unless you have a crystal ball you have no idea what impact left wing policies would have on the economy.

[Feedback]

I am saying the welsh government have limited powers - they don't have full sovereignty. I would have thought that was common knowledge.

History has shown us that left wing governments tend to fail their people and almost always end up bankrupt.

[archibald leitch]

I am saying the welsh government have limited powers - they don't have full sovereignty. I would have thought that was common. knowledge.Your second point is simply crap and inaccurate.

[TH63]

Cuba?

[Feedback]

USSR, East Germany, North Korea, China, romania....

All hard left. All failed the people

[archibald leitch]

USSR, East Germany, North Korea, China, romania....Are you REALLY comparing WAG with them?

[archibald leitch]

Cuba?The USA blockade of Cuba is a brilliant example of the lengths capitalists will go to to snuff out alternative systems.

[Feedback]

I'm not comparing WG with them at all. I'm using them as examples of where hard left systems have failed the people

[archibald leitch]

As long as I'm all-right JackThe Tories claiming they would scrap them is just populist bollocks they would clearly renage on if they did win power.

[archibald leitch]

I'm not comparing WG with them at all. I'm using them as examples of where hard left systems have failed the people And capitalism has failed people all over the world. What exactly is your point?

[TH63]

Cuba?
The USA blockade of Cuba is a brilliant example of the lengths capitalists will go to to snuff out alternative systems. Whilst I have no wish to see Starbucks and MacDonalds infest every street corner over there, it is clear to see that most people there are now trying any which way to make a buck - communism has failed there, and whether you like it or not, capitalism is starting to gain momentum as previously poor people are no trying to accumulate wealth. Whether the average cuban will see their standard of living improve or not is hard to gauge, but right now, it's hard to imagine it getting any worse.

[tommy31]

I am saying the welsh government have limited powers - they don't have full sovereignty. I would have thought that was common knowledge.Norway? Sweden? Iceland? Finland?

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Iceland went bust in the crash if you remember and could not pay it's debts.

Sweden is not the great panacea you may think - 31% income rate start - plus large employers contributions.

Norway were the smart ones as they used the oil and gas money to invest for their people - which is easy to do when there is only 5 million Norwegians compared to 60-70 million people in the UK.

Apart from that you're bang on on the button..

[archibald leitch]

Iceland went bust in the crash if you remember and could not pay it's debts.But anyway. What about these cars?

[Feedback]

I am saying the welsh government have limited powers - they don't have full sovereignty. I would have thought that was common knowledge.
History has shown us that left wing governments tend to fail their people and almost always end up bankrupt.Archie is hard left. None of those nations are anywhere near what we are discussing

[ragbone]

1. I defended no one - simply asked a questionFew lucky it want far or hard left http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashomer.gif

[ragbone]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)
And what has this got to do with socialists?
Not sure what you want me yo say, I am not a Labour supporter or a government supporter for that matter.
The Welsh labour party isn't socialist? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif Define socialist core,or is that a media type terminology ?

[ragbone]

Iceland went bust in the crash if you remember and could not pay it's debts.
Sweden is not the great panacea you may think - 31% income rate start - plus large employers contributions.Icelandic banks just froze IMO http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashomer.gif

[archibald leitch]

I am saying the welsh government have limited powers - they don't have full sovereignty. I would have thought that was common knowledge.
History has shown us that left wing governments tend to fail their people and almost always end up bankrupt.For clarity... Can you tell me what you you think we are discussing?

[archibald leitch]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)
And what has this got to do with socialists?
Not sure what you want me yo say, I am not a Labour supporter or a government supporter for that matter.
The Welsh labour party isn't socialist? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Well no, of course not http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif Follow the link.

[ragbone]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)
And what has this got to do with socialists?
Not sure what you want me yo say, I am not a Labour supporter or a government supporter for that matter.
The Welsh labour party isn't socialist? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Well no, of course not http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
It has socialism as a core principle, it doesn't have the power to enact all that it wants.Is it far left ?

[archibald leitch]

As long as I'm all-right Jack
I'll just leave this here for Feedy and Archie
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-governmen t-spent-18m-nearly-10570436 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-18m-nearly-10570436)
And what has this got to do with socialists?
Not sure what you want me yo say, I am not a Labour supporter or a government supporter for that matter.
The Welsh labour party isn't socialist? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
Well no, of course not http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/shrug.gif
It has socialism as a core principle, it doesn't have the power to enact all that it wants.
The Labour party ditched its socialist core (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause_IV) at their conference in 1995.Sorry. I really don't get what you are asking.

[Feedback]

I am saying the welsh government have limited powers - they don't have full sovereignty. I would have thought that was common knowledge.
History has shown us that left wing governments tend to fail their people and almost always end up bankrupt.
Norway? Sweden? Iceland? Finland? I said that left wing governments generally fail the people.

[archibald leitch]

I am saying the welsh government have limited powers - they don't have full sovereignty. I would have thought that was common knowledge.
History has shown us that left wing governments tend to fail their people and almost always end up bankrupt.
Norway? Sweden? Iceland? Finland?
Archie is hard left. None of those nations are anywhere near what we are discussing This is supposed to be a debate about cars though, a subject you have not commented on.

[Feedback]

Proven wrong? None of those nations have ever elected a left wing government, which is what we were talking about.

In case you struggle with the bleeding obvious, the nordic nations et al are centre left at best and i was referring to the socialist/communist states when I was referring to left wing.

[archibald leitch]

Proven wrong? None of those nations have ever elected a left wing government, which is what we were talking about.Why were you talking about communism? No one else was!

[Feedback]

I made the comment that no left wing government has ever done any good for the people - that's why I mentioned communism.

Thankfully such bizarre political philosophies have been consigned to the historical dustbin where they belong.

[archibald leitch]

Most people would disagree with you and point out the Nordic countries have done quite well by their people.

[archibald leitch]

So. What about these cars then?

[ragbone]

Nordic communist driving cars,what next http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmassherlock.gif

[severncity]

Nordic communist driving cars,what next http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmassherlock.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/legacy.php?t=getfile&id=8448&private=0

[Feedback]

Feedbtick on Sun, 13 December 2015 18:22It would appear in this thread that you've not been able to differentiate between a left wing government and a centre left government. I'm not sure if this is you being your usual argumentative self or whether you just can't follow what is being posted.

[severncity]

Feedbtick on Sun, 13 December 2015 18:22
I made the comme? nt that no left wing government has ever done any good for . the people - that's why I mentioned communism.So, extending your argument, is the Labour-run Welsh government more similar to those of the Nordic countries or to those of the Soviet bloc?

[Feedback]

neither as they aren't soveriegn and thus can't fully enact the types of policies they really want to implement.

however, given the chance, I'd see them somewhere between centre left and left (nearer the former rather than the latter).

[archibald leitch]

Feedbtick on Sun, 13 December 2015 18:22
I made the comme? nt that no left wing government has ever done any good for . the people - that's why I mentioned communism.Then I repeat my question. What the **** has this got to do with anything being debated in this thread?

[archibald leitch]

neither as they aren't soveriegn and thus can't fully enact the types. of policies they really want to implement.Comedy gold.

[ragbone]

Nordic communist driving cars,what next http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmassherlock.gif
Communists driving Nordic cars?I'm all confused now it needs some Momentum to find out its path in life , before it screws up the ordinary road users http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmasrubchin.gif

[Feedback]

Feedbtick on Sun, 13 December 2015 18:22
I made the comme? nt that no left wing government has ever done any good for . the people - that's why I mentioned communism.
Thankfully such bizarre political philosophies have been consigned to the historical dustbin where they belong.why not ask the person who first mentioned it? Why do you always ask me these questions when it is not I who takes these threads off topic.

[Feedback]

neither as they aren't soveriegn and thus can't fully enact the types. of policies they really want to implement.
however, given the chance, I'd see them somewhere between centre left and left (nearer the former rather than the latter).may I take this opportunity to remind you that our esteemed minister for economic development is a confirmed marxist, although given your penchant for spouting hard left nonsense even both of them are probably centrist compared to you.

[archibald leitch]

Feedbtick on Sun, 13 December 2015 18:22
I made the comme? nt that no left wing government has ever done any good for . the people - that's why I mentioned communism.
Thankfully such bizarre political philosophies have been consigned to the historical dustbin where they belong.
The idea that all people are equal is bizarre? Showing true colors now. You are the first person to bring it up. In fact you are the ONLY person to bring it up.

[archibald leitch]

neither as they aren't soveriegn and thus can't fully enact the types. of policies they really want to implement.
however, given the chance, I'd see them somewhere between centre left and left (nearer the former rather than the latter).
They have the chance to move further left but have not. ZZZZZZZZZZŹZ

[Feedback]

Archie

You were the first person to question whether hard left governments always fail the people. The simple truth is they always do. There is no denying the likes of USSR, Cuba, East Germany, romania were all hard left and all failed the people. There isn't one example where a hard left system has benefitted the people as a whole.

I will say again, why not ask the person who first referenced socialists in this thread why they did so.

As for your last post, it's clear you are stumped because you usually have something to say, no matter how nonsensical it is.

[archibald leitch]

ArchieWould you like to comment on the cars? If not, don't expect a reply from this bored poster.

[Feedback]

Socialism and communism are two bedfellows archie. To suggest otherwise is foolish.

regarding the cars, I'd expect ministers to have a fleet of cars to help them get about.

[archibald leitch]

Socialism and communism are two bedfellows archie. To suggest otherwise is foolish.Agreed on the cars. Got there in the end. . That was easy wasn't it!

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Archie old chap - for someone who is not a hard left socialist or a supporter of the Labour etc - you seem to very active http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sherlock.gif

You need to calm down a bit - relax and let the real hard left socialists do the work

[Feedback]

Socialism and communism are two bedfellows archie. To suggest otherwise is foolish.
regarding the cars, I'd expect ministers to have a fleet of cars to help them get about.Has anyone suggested they are the same thing?

[archibald leitch]

Socialism and communism are two bedfellows archie. To suggest otherwise is foolish.
regarding the cars, I'd expect ministers to have a fleet of cars to help them get about.
Bedfellows.... so not the same thing. . Thank you. It's just that you swap and change them so often in a conversation so often it is difficult to keep up with what you are talking about. One has to assume either you think they are the same or you are changing your argument every other post..

[Feedback]

I don't think I swap and change them. I usually reference them together as they are both two sides of the same bad penny.

[archibald leitch]

I don't think I swap and change them. I usually reference them together as they are both two sides of the same bad penny.Whilst you may consider the idea of equality as bad, You have accepted yourself that there is a difference between left of centre and 'hard left'. Yet you throw around terms willy nilly on an interchangeable basis so it is impossible to tell what you are tslking about. Unless of course you genuinely believe there is no difference between WAG and USSR.

[Feedback]

firstly, I'm not against equality although I realise not everyone is equal. we all have different skillsets and can contribute in differing - not equal - ways. That is not a bad thing in itself as it provides for diversity rather than monotony.

that certainly doesn't mean I wish to see inequality and that is something you just cannot get your head around. Just because I don't support your view on how to achieve a fairer society doesn't mean I don't want a fairer society.

I also don't think WG are anything like USSR - the USSR were actually quite productive in their first 15 years and improved their economy massively. WG have taken Wales' economy backwards in that time and it is only now that we are seeing any sort of engagement with business. Although I don't think you were referencing economic prowess when you asked me to compare and contrast.

The fact is if Wales were independent Welsh Labour would like to take us further left with nationalisation of industry and resources. That is a fact. I'm not suggesting that we'd end of with the KGB (Welsh Labour aren't ever going to be that effective any anything they do) but given the way the left bellyache at any opinion that is different from their own it would not surprise me if dissent was legislated against in some way or form. The left are very intolerant of opinions that don't correlate to their own. your responses here are testament to that.

[archibald leitch]

firstly, I'm not against equality although I realise not everyone is equal. we all have different skillsets and can contribute in differing - not equal - ways. That is not a bad thing in itself as it provides for diversity rather than monotony.It is also monotonous that no matter what subject is being debated you turn everything into the same argument about capitalism v communism, even though I have not seen a single person on this board promoting communism. In your desperation to slang off communists you constantly resort to claims that if anyone disagrees with you they must be a communist. Tedious beyond belief. Try sticking to the thread topics for a change, or at the very least divert threads to a new and interesting subject instead of regurgitating the same crap thread after thread.

[Feedback]

1. You definitely asked if I was comparing WAG (sic) to the USSR. Your words - no difference between...indicates a compare and contrast.

2. I don't suggest everyone is a communist - only you

3. The welsh government cannot nationalise welsh industry so can't take us any further left. I use that as just one example. If they could nationalise industry they would.

[archibald leitch]

1: you were the first person to mention USSR. It was a very random thing to throw into the con. . versation unless you were making that comparison.

2: and why do you suggest I am a communist? Because I disagree with you. No one else argues with you cos you bore everyone else into submission. It is beyond my why I bother.

3: are you seriously suggesting nationslisation is the only left wing thing a government can do. Really? If you are so convinced Welsh Labour want to do that can you explain why they have mocked Corbyn for his suggesting nationalisation of railways?

[Feedback]

1. I had to mention the USSR because of your very silly claim that left wing governments don't always fail the people. They clearly do.

2. I don't say you are a communist because you disagree with me, I say you are a communist because that is what anarcho-syndicalists are - rebranded communists. Communism failed spectacularly in the USSR and wider eastern bloc so to differentiate themselves communists rebrand as anarcho-syndicalists. Anarcho-syndicalism is a workers soviet by another name.

3. Once again you demonstrate your inability to read a passage and take in the information. I clearly included 'as an example' in my original text which meant I was using it, well, as an exmaple. How you could interpret that as me suggesting it is the only left wing thing the WG could do is lost on me. It does come across that you struggle with the written word in which case I'd suggest you're not going to get the full benefits of reading and posting on an Internet forum.

[Packerman]

you two need professional help, god knows how either of you would cope if the other stopped posting http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashehe.gif

[archibald leitch]

1:And you conveniently ignored the left wing governments that do very well for their people, like the Nordic states.

2: you clearly do not have a clue about my politics, communism or anarchism. I have no idea why you keep bringing this into the debate though? This was supposed tobe a thread about cars, nothing ewhat so ever to do with communism. Just about every thread you bang on about communism even though no one has brought it up and no communists post on here. It is the personification of ad hominem.. or at least it would be if it were accurate. For the record, even though I am not a communist, do not advocate communism and do not defend communism... if you are trying to insult me I do not have a major problem with the ideology, I just don't advocate it. I would rather be branded a communist than a neo liberal free market capitalist.

3: perhaps you should think more carefully about what you write before acusing people of not understanding what you have written.

[TH63]

you two need professional help, god knows how either of you would cope if the other stopped posting http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashehe.gif http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmashehe.gif

[Feedback]

1. the Nordic states aren't left wing, they are centre left. This has been discussed in this thread and your post is further evidence that you aren't able to take on board information in the written form. Let me remind you we were very clearly and unambiguously discussing left wing governments and not centre left governments. I even presented you with a little colourful spectrum earlier in the thread to help you visualise. Clearly you weren't able to take in what was presented to you

2. you are a communist. Anarcho-syndicalism is about workers councils - soviets - setting the economic agenda. That is exactly what we saw in the USSR. So whether you like it or not, your politics is akin to Leninism-Marxism in a so called stateless society and the roots of AS are based in that philosophy. Now in every day parlance the USSR was communist and as such that makes your politics communist also. You deny it because you are ashamed of how communism manifests itself in reality, much the same way socialists deny how socialism manifested itself in East Germany.

3. I write reasonably carefully, save for the odd typo, thanks all the same. the central theme is you just cannot follow a thread or anything that is contained therein. I will ask again, how can you interpret me stating 'as an example of' as 'are you seriously suggesting nationslisation is the only left wing thing a government can do?'

[Feedback]

oh dear, it gets worse. more evidence the socialists don't live in the same place as the rest of us. today's article found on Wales Online (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-government-spent-scandalous-19500-10606522) is further evidence that our socialist masters, just like the communists before them, believe they deserve to live a better life than the rest of us.

you have to ask the question, why were they flying business class from Heathrow when they could have flown economy class from Cardiff?

All right minded people will condemn such a waste of taxpayers money, save for the socialists and communists who will do anything to defend their battered and outdated political philosophy

[archibald leitch]

Not read the link but sounds like money is being wasted by NafW. I note you are still trolling with the bizarre idea that this has anything to do with communism or even socialism. Tedious fishing

[archibald leitch]

1. the Nordic states aren't left wing, they are centre left. This has been discussed in this thread and your post is further evidence that you aren't able to take on board information in the written form. Let me remind you we were very clearly and unambiguously discussing left wing governments and not centre left governments. I even presented you with a little colourful spectrum earlier in the thread to help you visualise. Clearly you weren't able to take in what was presented to you3: if you are writing what you mean to say you cannot complain when I point out your inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

[Feedback]

1. I have already explained that centre left and left are not the same, they are at different places on the political spectrum

2. i am not telling you how you think, I am pointing out how others perceive you, based on the guff that you post

3. my writing is fine (for the second time) and does not have inconsistencies or inaccuracies, you just fail to understand what is written.

[Jimmy Jimmy]

Cant believe unemployment has gone down again today

Thatcher out

[gandalf1927]

Cant believe unemployment has gone down again todayAh yes cos those statistics are not manipulated at all

[Jimmy Jimmy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117)

Interestingly "Unemployment fell by 102,000 to 1.86 million in the three months to the end of January, according to the latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures.

The number of people claiming Jobseeker's Allowance in February fell by 31,000 to 791,200, its lowest level since 2008, the ONS said.

The employment rate now stands at 73.3%, the highest rate of people in work since the ONS began keeping records in 1971"

They must have done a lot of manipulating month on month to now get it that low - Thatcher Out

[archibald leitch]

1. I have already explained that centre left and left are not the same, they are at different places on the political spectrum3: point one is a perfect example of you redefining words to give them your own meaning because if you accept the real meaning you will have to admit you are wrong.

[Feedback]

1. When I made the reference to left wing (governments fail the people), I qualified it by saying I meant hard left. I couldnt have made it clearer. Hence 3hy someone referenced centre left governments is lost on me.

2. Arrogant -maybe? But I'd be willing to bet most see you as a card carrying commie pinko.

3. I've not redefined anything. You just don't seem to follow the thread.

[archibald leitch]

1. When I made the reference to left wing (governments fail the people), I qualified it by saying I meant hard left. I couldnt have made it clearer. Hence 3hy someone referenced centre left governments is lost on me.1: you said no such thing. We were talking about WAG. What the **** has that got to do with 'hard left'?

[ragbone]

Will this post be released as a box set http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmasrubchin.gif

[archibald leitch]

Will this post be released as a box set http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/xmasrubchin.gif No, but it contains enough repetitive beats to warrant a 12" remix.

[Feedback]

1. When I made the reference to left wing (governments fail the people), I qualified it by saying I meant hard left. I couldnt have made it clearer. Hence 3hy someone referenced centre left governments is lost on me.
2. Arrogant -maybe? But I'd be willing to bet most see you as a card carrying commie pinko.Any chance of answering the comment about the socialists frivolous spending of taxpayers cash on jollies to north America, not from Cardiff but from Heathrow no less.

[archibald leitch]

1. When I made the reference to left wing (governments fail the people), I qualified it by saying I meant hard left. I couldnt have made it clearer. Hence 3hy someone referenced centre left governments is lost on me.
2. Arrogant -maybe? But I'd be willing to bet most see you as a card carrying commie pinko.
3. I've not redefined anything. You just don't seem to follow the thread.Now who is not following thread. Have answered the flights issue. Although I will ask if you can actually fly to America from Cardiff. News to me if you can.

[Feedback]

Nordic nations are generally centre left but have never been left wing. Sweden has recently bucked that trend and is now shifting to the right.

[archibald leitch]

Nordic nations are generally centre left but have never been left wing. Sweden has recently bucked that trend and is now shifting to the right.CENTRE LEFT IS LEFT WING

[Feedback]

If you want then that's fine. I am fully capable of dealing with other people's definitions and interjection them in to the thread in the correct context. However I have qualified exactly what I meant when I said left wing I. E hard left, far left, ultra left - call it what you like, and despite repeatedly saying g what I meant, you still think I was referring to the centre left. You are arguing over nothing like two bald men arguing over a comb.

[archibald leitch]

If you want then that's fine. I am fully capable of dealing with other people's definitions and interjection them in to the thread in the correct context. However I have qualified exactly what I meant when I said left wing I. E hard left, far left, ultra left - call it what you like, and despite repeatedly saying g what I meant, you still think I was referring to the centre left. You are arguing over nothing like two bald men arguing over a comb.Anyway. I'm going to do what I should have done ages ago. Goodbye.

[Feedback]

I've qualified it many times in this thread, the issue is you just can't get your head around it because you can only compute your own definition.

When you refer to left wing I fully appreciate yiu mean anything left of centre - you've explained yourself and I've taken it on board.

However, when I say left wing, despite me saying several times I imply hard left, you've not yet managed to grasp that's what I mean. You've either got a lack of ability for taking on board what people say or you understand full well what I am saying but are arguing for the sake of it.

So, to bring this car crash to an end, I will restate in terms you are familiar with (because terms you aren't famiar with clearly confuse you).

Hard left governments never do any good for the people

Centre left governments (social market, social democracy) generally provide better social cohesion and equal opportunity.

[Jimmy Jimmy]

"Hard left governments never do any good for the people

Centre left governments (social market, social democracy) generally provide better social cohesion and equal opportunity."

They also lean towards tax and spend, spend more than they can afford and inevitably crash. What that happens a centre right Govt comes in - cleans it up, balance the books, get rid of the dead wood and grows the economy, the voters get complacent and vote back in the party that promises them jam today and jam tomorrow, higher pay, lower taxes etc - they fall for it - and the whole thing gets repeated over and over again.

Unless of course if you live in Wales - where you get perpetual misery from a Labour WAG - accountable no one and voted in by Luddites year after year. Happy Christmas

[ragbone]

"Hard left governments never do any good for the people. "" lets go , social democratics, lets go " as the Ramones once sang , oooooops hang on , the party not been formed yet , not too long to wait hopefully, bloody far left ,centro way left ,far flung left bustrads http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/malky.gif