View Full Version : Brexit : Should I Listen To The Loons ?
life on mars
29-05-16, 19:27
There is no greater turn off in politics than listening to politicians spout to one ,what to or not do. In the case of the right sided politicians ,you have loons like Farage , Boris , Gove ,William Rees - Mogg , John Redwood , who in their right mind would be guided by their advise ?? when its plain to see thye are suing this as an internal power struggle within the Tory party , and bugger all to do with our best interest , Brexit is just the vehicle .
Just imagine out of Europe , Boris as PM , Gove as his deputy , Redwood as foreign Secretary and Mogg as the Chancellor, and with the the current loopy ( 70's style ) left as the effective opposition . Bloody hell save us all , give me a crap Europe union over any of the above, at least it keeps a tight reign on them . :facepalm:
There is no greater turn off in politics than listening to politicians spout to one ,what to or not do. In the case of the right sided politicians ,you have loons like Farage , Boris , Gove ,William Rees - Mogg , John Redwood , who in their right mind would be guided by their advise ?? when its plain to see thye are suing this as an internal power struggle within the Tory party , and bugger all to do with our best interest , Brexit is just the vehicle .
Just imagine out of Europe , Boris as PM , Gove as his deputy , Redwood as foreign Secretary and Mogg as the Chancellor, and with the the current loopy ( 70's style ) left as the effective opposition . Bloody hell save us all , give me a crap Europe union over any of the above, at least it keeps a tight reign on them . :facepalm:
Go on then i'll bite :biggrin:
Were gunna lose all our jobs
Our house prices are gunna crash
Our pensions will disappear
We'll no longer be safe,
Our currency will crash
Easy Jet will hike their prices
We;ll not be allowed to trade with anyone
#project fear
Just call me Dave :thumbup:
lincoln blue
29-05-16, 19:47
I'm an undecided at the moment, in fact I'm about 70% in 25% out and I'd be about 50/50 if it wasn't for all the Brexit nutters. Other than Boris, who at least can crack a joke, there's no one I would want to have a pint with or share a lift/meal/conversation etc, they're all nut jobs.
There are lots of nut jobs on the "in" side too but not all as certifiable as The Brexit lot
Don't forget we were much much better off before we joined the Common Market.......oh! Sick man of Europe anybody?
As you say this is all about the bloody Tory party and the right wing hangers and floggers trying to take control. Just look at the names you mentioned. They are a repellant bunch. You missed off one of the worst. That Kent Ian Duncan Smith.
And remember it's not about the economics it's much much more important than that. Business will tell you they dont like change - and the only thing they care about is the end of year profit.
Remember when Tony Blair told you there were WMD in Iraq, and then George Bush told us they had WMD - and they had the proof, then Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice . said they had them. Both Labour and the Tories told us they WMD and could land them on the West in 45 minutes , then the Coalition of the Willing told us about Saddams WMD and how we must act immediately - remember ALL the other countries, PM's , Presidents and Generals that told you we had to act against WMD - I BELIEVED THEM ALL - WHY WOULD THEY LIE ? THEY CANT ALL BE LYING SURELY ????
There were only a few nutters and odd bods like Robin Cook and Dr David Kelly who said they didnt exist - I thought they were nutters and loons to - as it turns out it was the other way around - you were fooled and lied to before.
Mrs R in
3
2
1
:hehe:
Mrs Steve R
29-05-16, 20:59
Mrs R in
3
2
1
:hehe:
:fingers: :hehe: I'm busy on the decks
life on mars
29-05-16, 21:52
Go on then i'll bite :biggrin:
Were gunna lose all our jobs
Our house prices are gunna crash
Our pensions will disappear
We'll no longer be safe,
Our currency will crash
Easy Jet will hike their prices
We;ll not be allowed to trade with anyone
#project fear
Just call me Dave :thumbup:
Its a case I guess of which loon you trust .
life on mars
29-05-16, 21:55
You could do a lot than watch Jeremy Paxman give you an over view of how all the EU bits and bobs fit together - what we can do and what we cant do - and a list of who does what
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07c6n58/paxman-in-brussels-who-really-rules-us
another loon , what she call himself " one nation tory " worrying times, next we will see him on top of tank with a white scarf and googles on as he pushes those bad old chaps back into the hinterland
Its a case I guess of which loon you trust .
This is correct, I choose not to trust those loons who approved and sanctioned war and the mass killings, resulting in a Europe we have now, joining the EU was never marketed about acts of agression against countries who have heads of state not approved!. joining the EU or common market as it was known at the time was about common policies and not politics, we'll not be allowed to leave anyway irrespective of the vote.
This is correct, I choose not to trust those loons who approved and sanctioned war and the mass killings, resulting in a Europe we have now, joining the EU was never marketed about acts of agression against countries who have heads of state not approved!. joining the EU or common market as it was known at the time was about common policies and not politics, we'll not be allowed to leave anyway irrespective of the vote.
You're avatar makes you look a loon btw. Scarf upside down ffs.
I have been asking my customers over the last 2 weeks
its been interesting to say the least
If you read the posts on here you would be sensible to think that its not worth bothering to vote if you want " out " as the " in " vote is way ahead, from speaking to my customers, it not so clear cut, now these range in a broad spread, from 1 mill plus houses to small 2 bed estate houses
Mrs Steve R
29-05-16, 23:24
And remember it's not about the economics it's much much more important than that. Business will tell you they dont like change - and the only thing they care about is the end of year profit.
Remember when Tony Blair told you there were WMD in Iraq, and then George Bush told us they had WMD - and they had the proof, then Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice . said they had them. Both Labour and the Tories told us they WMD and could land them on the West in 45 minutes , then the Coalition of the Willing told us about Saddams WMD and how we must act immediately - remember ALL the other countries, PM's , Presidents and Generals that told you we had to act against WMD - I BELIEVED THEM ALL - WHY WOULD THEY LIE ? THEY CANT ALL BE LYING SURELY ????
There were only a few nutters and odd bods like Robin Cook and Dr David Kelly who said they didnt exist - I thought they were nutters and loons to - as it turns out it was the other way around - you were fooled and lied to before.
:thumbup: Some people have very short memories.
You're avatar makes you look a loon btw. Scarf upside down ffs.
What does that have to do with the price of fish?
the other bob wilson
30-05-16, 04:10
There is no greater turn off in politics than listening to politicians spout to one ,what to or not do. In the case of the right sided politicians ,you have loons like Farage , Boris , Gove ,William Rees - Mogg , John Redwood , who in their right mind would be guided by their advise ?? when its plain to see thye are suing this as an internal power struggle within the Tory party , and bugger all to do with our best interest , Brexit is just the vehicle .
Just imagine out of Europe , Boris as PM , Gove as his deputy , Redwood as foreign Secretary and Mogg as the Chancellor, and with the the current loopy ( 70's style ) left as the effective opposition . Bloody hell save us all , give me a crap Europe union over any of the above, at least it keeps a tight reign on them . :facepalm:
When I look at those individuals you list, I think there's no way I'm going to put myself on the same side as that lot. However, the remain campaign started very poorly and has got worse, with it's daily pronouncements on what will go wrong with the country if we vote to leave (I'm just waiting for the plague of locusts and the slaying of first born sons!). If leaving the EU was really as disastrous as call me Dave, Gideon etc. keep on telling us it is, surely even the loons you list would realise it?
I believe there are millions like me in this country who feel completely let down by the campaign so far. I've my own vague gut instinct to go on and the campaign has done nothing whatsoever to change it - it's a huge decision we've got to make in just over three weeks time and yet the two sides have been of no help whatsoever, it's been like preparing for a philosophy exam by watching endless Tom and Jerry cartoons.
Dénia Bluebird
30-05-16, 06:36
I havent heard one world renowned financial guru say anything other than remain. Also I cant see any reason whatsoever that they have any motivation to influence the result other than genuine belief. On the other hand the leave camp are pursuing their own ambitions!
life on mars
30-05-16, 08:45
When I look at those individuals you list, I think there's no way I'm going to put myself on the same side as that lot. However, the remain campaign started very poorly and has got worse, with it's daily pronouncements on what will go wrong with the country if we vote to leave (I'm just waiting for the plague of locusts and the slaying of first born sons!). If leaving the EU was really as disastrous as call me Dave, Gideon etc. keep on telling us it is, surely even the loons you list would realise it?
I believe there are millions like me in this country who feel completely let down by the campaign so far. I've my own vague gut instinct to go on and the campaign has done nothing whatsoever to change it - it's a huge decision we've got to make in just over three weeks time and yet the two sides have been of no help whatsoever, it's been like preparing for a philosophy exam by watching endless Tom and Jerry cartoons.
Unless leaving is life-changing, it's best we stay in, as the biggest unknown is being out, I think trade, security, continued healthy Welsh funding arethe key factors for me, and I guess leaving would not hurt the life or pockets of Boris, Mogg.
Raiderbankk
30-05-16, 08:52
Bookies seem to have it sorted? http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
Dénia Bluebird
30-05-16, 09:07
Bookies seem to have it sorted? http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
BIG TICK to that post!
BIG TICK to that post!
Over the past few weeks the odds for remain have been shortening every day. However over the past week with some polls showing a neck and neck race pollsters are just beginning to lengthen those odds. It's far from over.
I'm probably voting in.
But I am wondering that if well be so much worse off if we leave, why do the French and German governments care so much.
why do the French and German governments care so much.
this has been mentioned before, why are they so desperate for us to stay in, is it if we leave, the french and Germans will be asking for a vote ? ? ?
Raiderbankk
30-05-16, 12:54
I'm probably voting in.
But I am wondering that if well be so much worse off if we leave, why do the French and German governments care so much.
They don't - they didn't let us win the Eurovision Song Contest. Landslide stay vote if they had.
The Remain camp have given facts and figures and all the Leave camp have done is shout nonsense and scream about immigration
Ainsley Harriott
30-05-16, 15:50
this has been mentioned before, why are they so desperate for us to stay in, is it if we leave, the french and Germans will be asking for a vote ? ? ?
The Dutch will be the next northern European country to have a vote.
Ainsley Harriott
30-05-16, 15:55
Are there actually people out there who're voting on whether to stay in the EU for another generation or two, based on who's in the band of relatively influential/popular 'loons' in 2016?
life on mars
30-05-16, 17:20
Are there actually people out there who're voting on whether to stay in the EU for another generation or two, based on who's in the band of relatively influential/popular 'loons' in 2016?
Not at all , I have decided for a safety first vote, with the world markets still uncertain . My point was, I find it very difficult to be persuaded by the no campaigns reasoning which do appear to flow from the dated right wing lunatic fringe ,who base their argruments on prejudices views, rather than that of substance.
kendoddsdadsdogsdead
31-05-16, 10:56
When the stay knobs say the economy will lose 20. .......40 billion if we leave...not very factual, just general conjecture. .no one knows (as QOTSA once said)
When the stay knobs say the economy will lose 20. .......40 billion if we leave...not very factual, just general conjecture. .no one knows (as QOTSA once said)
Loons
#Project Fear
This is correct, I choose not to trust those loons who approved and sanctioned war and the mass killings, resulting in a Europe we have now, joining the EU was never marketed about acts of agression against countries who have heads of state not approved!. joining the EU or common market as it was known at the time was about common policies and not politics, we'll not be allowed to leave anyway irrespective of the vote.
The problem is there are loons on both sides.
Vote to leave and a world war is on the horizon with house prices dropping 15-20% and absolutely mega thousands of jobs to be lost.
No factual proof of any of it but it sure scares the voting public, which is their aim..
Who is the least cunty person on the brexit campaign?
The problem is there are loons on both sides.
Vote to leave and a world war is on the horizon with house prices dropping 15-20% and absolutely mega thousands of jobs to be lost.
No factual proof of any of it but it sure scares the voting public, which is their aim..
I thought it would backfire on Cameron but to be fair to him. he's played #Project Fear a blinder, the majority are being frightened into not wanting change and a remain vote will be secured, he'll then go down in history as a great Prime Minister
Eric the Half a Bee
31-05-16, 13:06
The problem is there are loons on both sides.
Vote to leave and a world war is on the horizon with house prices dropping 15-20% and absolutely mega thousands of jobs to be lost.
No factual proof of any of it but it sure scares the voting public, which is their aim..
Scaring the public has been the aim of both sides. The amount of lies, prefabricated nonsense and total bullshit from both stay and leave campaigns should be investigated. Every now and again I wonder if politics can stoop any lower - this referendum campaign has shown it can.
Mrs Steve R
31-05-16, 13:10
I thought it would backfire on Cameron but to be fair to him. he's played #Project Fear a blinder, the majority are being frightened into not wanting change and a remain vote will be secured, he'll then go down in history as a great Prime Minister
:hehe: Not once people realize what they have let themselves in for he wont.
I thought it would backfire on Cameron but to be fair to him. he's played #Project Fear a blinder, the majority are being frightened into not wanting change and a remain vote will be secured, he'll then go down in history as a great Prime Minister
On the other hand , if he takes us out of Europe, triggering a recession and giving the SNP the chance to split Scotland from the UK, whilst cutting the throat of beloved institutions like the BBC and the NHS he could easily go down as the worst PM ever.
:hehe: Not once people realize what they have let themselves in for he wont.
What would that be then?
the leader
31-05-16, 13:53
There is no greater turn off in politics than listening to politicians spout to one ,what to or not do. In the case of the right sided politicians ,you have loons like Farage , Boris , Gove ,William Rees - Mogg , John Redwood , who in their right mind would be guided by their advise ?? when its plain to see thye are suing this as an internal power struggle within the Tory party , and bugger all to do with our best interest , Brexit is just the vehicle .
Just imagine out of Europe , Boris as PM , Gove as his deputy , Redwood as foreign Secretary and Mogg as the Chancellor, and with the the current loopy ( 70's style ) left as the effective opposition . Bloody hell save us all , give me a crap Europe union over any of the above, at least it keeps a tight reign on them . :facepalm:
Interesting that you see all the loons as being BREXIT. You do realise that Corbyn ( laughingly ) claims to want to stay in? He is a loon AND a man without the courage of his convictions. He said what the TUC told him to say, not what he believed. Diane Abbot, the racist loon, she is STAY too.
Loons and liars on both sides.
another work day, another day of asking my customers which way they are going to vote
the best answer today was :
If we were not in the EU and the vote was to join the EU, would you ? ? ?
from this guys ( retired and living well on a nice private pension in a 400 K home ) point of view when he voted in the 70's ( 75 wasnt it ? ?? ) he voted for to join but the EU was completely different to its current form
So the question " If we were not in the EU and the vote was to join the EU, would you "
another work day, another day of asking my customers which way they are going to vote
the best answer today was :
If we were not in the EU and the vote was to join the EU, would you ? ? ?
from this guys ( retired and living well on a nice private pension in a 400 K home ) point of view when he voted in the 70's ( 75 wasnt it ? ?? ) he voted for to join but the EU was completely different to its current form
So the question " If we were not in the EU and the vote was to join the EU, would you "
Impossible to answer without knowing how we would have fared for the last 40 years without being in the eu
life on mars
31-05-16, 14:50
Interesting that you see all the loons as being BREXIT. You do realise that Corbyn ( laughingly ) claims to want to stay in? He is a loon AND a man without the courage of his convictions. He said what the TUC told him to say, not what he believed. Diane Abbot, the racist loon, she is STAY too.
Loons and liars on both sides.
Corbyn is confused, back in the day he was not very much an European, don't know what's happened
Impossible to answer without knowing how we would have fared for the last 40 years without being in the eu
i think he means today
if the vote was to join the EU next month for the first time, would you ? ? ( well thats how i took it )
i think he means today
if the vote was to join the EU next month for the first time, would you ? ? ( well thats how i took it )
So are you asking if there was a vote to leave and then a subsequent vote to rejoin, what would you do?
Or are you asking if we had never joined
So are you asking if there was a vote to leave and then a subsequent vote to rejoin, what would you do?
Or are you asking if we had never joined
I think it's the latter.
FWIW, yeah I would vote in
I think it's the latter.
FWIW, yeah I would vote in
If we had never joined we wouldn't have been benefitting from being a member for the last 40 years, so we might still be the sick man of Europe.
In that scenario lots more people might want to join
So are you asking if there was a vote to leave and then a subsequent vote to rejoin, what would you do?
Or are you asking if we had never joined
I probably would have voted in based on the info given at the time however, we know know that the common market idea of trade agreements was just a fore runner to the massive political behemoth that we now have, we have the promises and scaremongering from Cameron, but history should indicate the promises cannot be trusted. Voting Yes will see the systematic dismantling of the NHS and for me, it's a gamble that cannot be considered.
#Project Fear
I probably would have voted in based on the info given at the time however, we know know that the common market idea of trade agreements was just a fore runner to the massive political behemoth that we now have, we have the promises and scaremongering from Cameron, but history should indicate the promises cannot be trusted. Voting Yes will see the systematic dismantling of the NHS and for me, it's a gamble that cannot be considered.
#Project Fear
How do you think voting no will save the NHS?
So are you asking if there was a vote to leave and then a subsequent vote to rejoin, what would you do?
Or are you asking if we had never joined
yes
We never joined the EU the first time around, would you vote to join now ( or next month )
that was the question the guy said we should be asking ourselves
rudy gestede
31-05-16, 16:26
How do you think voting no will save the NHS?
The weirdest reason to not vote yes I've seen so far :hehe:
Do you know who will definitely save the NHS, Jeremy Hunt and an unchallenged Tory government!
rudy gestede
31-05-16, 16:26
yes
We never joined the EU the first time around, would you vote to join now ( or next month )
that was the question the guy said we should be asking ourselves
It really isn't
It really isn't
any expansion on that
as i can expand on what he was aiming for ( as we discussed it ) he was saying both sides are spouting " Maybe's & and we might's " and neither side really know what would really happen if we left, unless you know different ( and i guess you just might think you do )
How do you think voting no will save the NHS?
I don't, as I alluded to, it's a gamble you want to take, then that's fine, I don't, my instinct is the NHS is more secure within UK custody in London.
Over the past few weeks the odds for remain have been shortening every day. However over the past week with some polls showing a neck and neck race pollsters are just beginning to lengthen those odds. It's far from over.
Those odds have now shifted very significantly. The odds on remain have been lengthened and those on Leave are shortening very quickly. The bookies are reacting to favourable Leave polls.
:fingers: :hehe: I'm busy on the decks
That's a euphemism if there ever was one
I don't, as I alluded to, it's a gamble you want to take, then that's fine, I don't, my instinct is the NHS is more secure within UK custody in London.
It's already in UK custody....
A lot of OUT placards on the way into Caerphilly today.
It's already in UK custody....
And the future ?
And the future ?
what about it? Would it not be better to have an NHS throughout the EU rather than just in some countries?
what about it? Would it not be better to have an NHS throughout the EU rather than just in some countries?
or, would it not be better to have an NHS still in the UK or not at all ?
or, would it not be better to have an NHS still in the UK or not at all ?
yep it would be better to have one in the uk than none, but even better to have one throughout the whole EU.
the nhs stands for national health service, not european health service :hehe:
this country needs to stop pandering to half of europe and sort their own problems out, vote out. :thumbup:
yep it would be better to have one in the uk than none, but even better to have one throughout the whole EU.
I do agree with that, however and currently, France is on its knees financially, Germany has taken in a bucket load of refugees largely because of its ageing population, southern European countries are financially broke and in bail out conditions, I don't really think a common EU NHS is a remote possibility do you?, how would it be financed? considering the situation of the NHS in the U.K which compared to the rest of Europe is looking financially strong, Incidentally, I spent £800.00, or to be more precise, my wife did last month for private dental treatment, this was a one off because of circumstances but i'd hate to think how people would manage if the right to NHS treatment started to get eroded piece by piece resultant from a law made in Brussels. Like myself you can only guess what will happen to the NHS.
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 20:53
i think he means today
if the vote was to join the EU next month for the first time, would you ? ? ( well thats how i took it )
If the vote next month was to join - I'd vote NO. Basically the REMAIN campaign is hopeless, so I would not vote for change.
However, the vote next month is to leave - and I am voting to REMAIN. Basically the LEAVE campaign is hopeless so I cannot vote for change.
Today the BREXIT group are claiming that they will knock VAT off out electricity bills. The BREXIT group are not in Government so they cannot say this.
Eric Cartman
31-05-16, 20:56
or, would it not be better to have an NHS still in the UK or not at all ?
Sounds a lot like scaremongering to me.
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 20:59
Voting Yes will see the systematic dismantling of the NHS and for me, it's a gamble that cannot be considered.
#Project Fear
Are you running project fear? Your completely unsubstantiated comment is scaremongering at its worst. Provide some proof that voting yes will see an end to the NHS?
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 21:00
or, would it not be better to have an NHS still in the UK or not at all ?
Sounds a lot like scaremongering to me.
#projectfear.
#projectfear.
The funboy three are off
#Project Fear
Are you running project fear? Your completely unsubstantiated comment is scaremongering at its worst. Provide some proof that voting yes will see an end to the NHS?
Personally I think that a vote to leave the EU, with the subsequent inevitable goodbye to Scotland and the perpetual tory governments to follow, which would no doubt have lurched to the right given the individuals in the leave campaign - the NHS would be dismantled within a few years.
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 21:12
The funboy three are off
#Project Fear
That isn't an answer to the points I have made. Instead you go back to the playground method if debate, I'm not convinced that you know what you're voting for in 3 weeks time. I'm certainly unsure of the implications of leaving or remaining - the politicians aren't answering any questions (bit like you). However, I am 100 percent certain you have no idea of the implications either. But here you are, spouting off unsubstantiated comments as facts.
Eric Cartman
31-05-16, 21:12
Personally I think that a vote to leave the EU, with the subsequent inevitable goodbye to Scotland and the perpetual tory governments to follow, which would no doubt have lurched to the right given the individuals in the leave campaign - the NHS would be dismantled within a few years.
Brexit campaign does seem to be packed full of people who publicly fawn over the NHS but act differently behind closed doors.
That isn't an answer to the points I have made. Instead you go back to the playground method if debate, I'm not convinced that you know what you're voting for in 3 weeks time. I'm certainly unsure of the implications of leaving or remaining - the politicians aren't answering any questions (bit like you). However, I am 100 percent certain you have no idea of the implications either. But here you are, spouting off unsubstantiated comments as facts.
What points have you made ?
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 21:17
What points have you made ?
That your claims are unsubstantiated, and that you are scaremongering.
Brexit campaign does seem to be packed full of people who publicly fawn over the NHS but act differently behind closed doors.
I mean that's all just conjecture, but I don't think there's any denying that a large proportion of the brexit campaign are anti BBC, anti NHS , dont believe in climate change etc. Nothing I've said is too much of a stretch of the imagination - Scotland leaving etc, whereas what is the threat to the NHS if we stay?
Nobody can seem to spell that out, just we might lose the NHS because of REASONS.
We have a veto in Europe, so we don't hve to give anything up they dont want to.
That your claims are unsubstantiated, and that you are scaremongering.
So you haven't made any points I'm glad we agree about something, at no point have I said that any point I make regarding the NHS are facts, infact, I have repeatedly said it's a gamble that's all, what I have said is that the UK entered the common market agreement on trading policies, fishing, farming etc. we did not sign up because of any of the scaremongering that Cameron and associated are throwing about now, the erosion of workers pensions being one of his latest, a EURO Army, TTIP etc. it's your right to ignore these. but its also my right to try and digest information from both sides and come to my own conclusion, I only have to justify them to myself and no one else, one John Doe scaremongering on a Cardiff city football site whereas the prime minister of this country has engaged in scaremongering tactics that, members of his own party are questioning and proposing that a vote of no confidence in him is engaged after the election, are you for real ?
not sure i am overly keen on losing ( slowly watering down ) or army in favour of a " euro army " , while most of the time our army is used as a part in a bigger joint mission, look at the Falklands, would we have to ask the " EU " to have some troops to go and protect it again ? ? ?
not sure i am overly keen on losing ( slowly watering down ) or army in favour of a " euro army " , while most of the time our army is used as a part in a bigger joint mission, look at the Falklands, would we have to ask the " EU " to have some troops to go and protect it again ? ? ?
No British pm would even consider a move towards a unified EU army (which we are a long long way away from ) without firm guarantees on protecting British interests. Likewise the French with their overseas territories.
No British pm would even consider a move towards a unified EU army (which we are a long long way away from ) without firm guarantees on protecting British interests. Likewise the French with their overseas territories.
A British prime minister went to Brussels recently to thrash out concessions regarding our membership, members of his own party agree that he was sent away like a naughty school boy with a couple of token gestures, I agree that No British pm would even consider a move towards a unified EU army, however the way that the EU is evolving I'm not sure the pm would have the power to stop it and be allowed to remain within the EU club.
rudy gestede
31-05-16, 21:49
Nelsonca you are thick as shit give it a rest you're killing me ffs :hehe:
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 21:50
or, would it not be better to have an NHS still in the UK or not at all ?
So you haven't made any points I'm glad we agree about something, at no point have I said that any point I make regarding the NHS are facts, infact, I have repeatedly said it's a gamble that's all, what I have said is that the UK entered the common market agreement on trading policies, fishing, farming etc. we did not sign up because of any of the scaremongering that Cameron and associated are throwing about now, the erosion of workers pensions being one of his latest, a EURO Army, TTIP etc. it's your right to ignore these. but its also my right to try and digest information from both sides and come to my own conclusion, I only have to justify them to myself and no one else, one John Doe scaremongering on a Cardiff city football site whereas the prime minister of this country has engaged in scaremongering tactics that, members of his own party are questioning and proposing that a vote of no confidence in him is engaged after the election, are you for real ?
So you start off by attacking me - and continue in that vain by claiming I am ignoring some things that you see as important. Are you suggesting I haven't considered both sides and come up with a different conclusion than you? Do you think everyone who hasn't voted LEAVE are just giving in to scaremongering? Are you for real?
Nelsonca you are thick as shit give it a rest you're killing me ffs :hehe:
:thumbup: :hehe:
No British pm would even consider a move towards a unified EU army (which we are a long long way away from ) without firm guarantees on protecting British interests. Likewise the French with their overseas territories.
a long way of you say, lets see how it pans out in the next year or so
Of course no UK PM would want it too happen, but it could easily be done, a few cutbacks here and there, then suddenly " oh look, we have such a small MOD force, its not worth keeping, afterall we are protected by the EU army, lets just merge our troops with that "
job done
A British prime minister went to Brussels recently to thrash out concessions regarding our membership, members of his own party agree that he was sent away like a naughty school boy with a couple of token gestures, I agree that No British pm would even consider a move towards a unified EU army, however the way that the EU is evolving I'm not sure the pm would have the power to stop it and be allowed to remain within the EU club.
its a worry for me, I am a massive supporter of our " armed forces " despite it being very popular to knock them
Mrs Steve R
31-05-16, 22:02
Nelsonca you are thick as shit give it a rest you're killing me ffs :hehe:
:thumbup: :hehe:
Another reason to stick at it :hehe:
a long way of you say, lets see how it pans out in the next year or so
Of course no UK PM would want it too happen, but it could easily be done, a few cutbacks here and there, then suddenly " oh look, we have such a small MOD force, its not worth keeping, afterall we are protected by the EU army, lets just merge our troops with that "
job done
its a worry for me, I am a massive supporter of our " armed forces " despite it being very popular to knock them
Although I've never been in the forces I have spent lots of time working on RAF bases and occasionally staying in the Sgt's Mess, I worked at RAF Bishops Court, Northern Iron during the early 80's at the height of the troubles, travelling from Belfast back to the camp through County Down was a bit lairy, getting stopped at a road block on one occasion was more than a brown trouser moment :biggrin: I have utmost respect for our armed forces but I do have serious reservations about them being sent to conflict areas believing that we should not get involved like we do, sending a task force to the Falkland islands ffs, the company I worked for at the time were on standby to support the equipment that we supplied to the MOD, I knew a couple of engineers who went working for Marconi
Another reason to stick at it :hehe:
I like to amuse them Mrs R, got all three in the thread again tonight, it's getting too easy :hehe:
Although I've never been in the forces I have spent lots of time working on RAF bases and occasionally staying in the Sgt's Mess, I worked at RAF Bishops Court, Northern Iron during the early 80's at the height of the troubles, travelling from Belfast back to the camp through County Down was a bit lairy, getting stopped at a road block on one occasion was more than a brown trouser moment :biggrin: I have utmost respect for our armed forces but I do have serious reservations about them being sent to conflict areas believing that we should not get involved like we do, sending a task force to the Falkland islands ffs, the company I worked for at the time were on standby to support the equipment that we supplied to the MOD, I knew a couple of engineers who went working for Marconi
thats a political argument though, i have never served, though i do have a number of mates who have and some are still in, I worked for the MOD for a few years, so got to know people and they became mates
The Falklands are British ( like it or not ) and we had no other choice other than to act ( despite is keeping Maggie in for another term :angry: )
thats a political argument though, i have never served, though i do have a number of mates who have and some are still in, I worked for the MOD for a few years, so got to know people and they became mates
The Falklands are British ( like it or not ) and we had no other choice other than to act ( despite is keeping Maggie in for another term :angry: )
OFF Topic, going back to the Falklands was the time I begun a serious interest in Satellite TV, I bought a 1.2 mtr motorised dish which was a large dish at the time, dug a big hole in the garden, filled it with concrete and mounted the dish, bought various hookey decoders and used to spend evenings searching for raw news feeds and was successful on many occasions, as well as plenty of filth :biggrin: it wasn't so common then. Reading uncensored news was probably my beginning of treating the corporate news channels with the lack of thrust that I do.
Mrs Steve R
31-05-16, 22:56
I like to amuse them Mrs R, got all three in the thread again tonight, it's getting too easy :hehe:
:hehe: How dare you have an opinion.
:hehe: How dare you have an opinion.
You are allowed an opinion, as long as its not your own :biggrin:
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 23:06
I like to amuse them
You're certainly amusing me. :hehe:
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 23:11
:hehe: How dare you have an opinion.
I haven't knocked HeathBlue for having an opinion. I have knocked him for passing those opinions as facts which, in my opinion, he is doing. People on the opposite side of your argument have opinions too, and they are being passed off as "ignoring" certain elements of gossip.
Frankly, the politicians on both sides have done a sterling job of mudslinging and scaremongering and I think people will be voting "LEAVE" because they are scared of certain things, and people will be voting "REMAIN" because they are scared of certain things.
I like to make decisions based on facts, and there are absolutely no facts coming from either side. That's why I am voting to stay as we are. Similarly, if we were voting to join on June 23rd, I'd be voting to stay as we are because both sides are equally crap at telling us facts rather than hopes.
You're certainly amusing me. :hehe:
Just imagine the morning after the result, one side or other will be extracting the urine of the other :hehe: although TBH, I've basically accepted a remain result, it does go a bit over on occasions but I do have a little s****** from some of the comments,
I'll never believe that a remain result is a right result but I'll not sulk either and will just get on with life and accept it. I'm too old to be conscripted to the EURO Army :biggrin:
Badly Ironed Shirt
31-05-16, 23:27
Just imagine the morning after the result, one side or other will be extracting the urine of the other :hehe: although TBH, I've basically accepted a remain result, it does go a bit over on occasions but I do have a little s****** from some of the comments,
I'll never believe that a remain result is a right result but I'll not sulk either and will just get on with life and accept it. I'm too old to be conscripted to the EURO Army :biggrin:
:hehe:
Although, I think it is a bit too serious an issue for a "yah-boo sucks to you" type attitude from one side against the other. Farage has said that, if it is close (52-48), he will demand another referendum. Imagine if the Leave campaign win 50.1-49.9, Farage will have to backtrack quite a bit on that.
My own thoughts are that, every 5 years I elect someone to represent me in Parliament. There's 650 of the bar stewards and, when it comes to major decisions and a chance to justify their 11% pay rises, generous expense packages and large wages, they put it to the public vote.
Mrs Steve R
31-05-16, 23:35
I haven't knocked HeathBlue for having an opinion. I have knocked him for passing those opinions as facts which, in my opinion, he is doing. People on the opposite side of your argument have opinions too, and they are being passed off as "ignoring" certain elements of gossip.
Frankly, the politicians on both sides have done a sterling job of mudslinging and scaremongering and I think people will be voting "LEAVE" because they are scared of certain things, and people will be voting "REMAIN" because they are scared of certain things.
I like to make decisions based on facts, and there are absolutely no facts coming from either side. That's why I am voting to stay as we are. Similarly, if we were voting to join on June 23rd, I'd be voting to stay as we are because both sides are equally crap at telling us facts rather than hopes.
Well I'm not voting leave because of anything that either side has said, I have my own reasons, if other people don't like my reasons it's tough luck, no amount of implying that I'm a racist loon (which is out of order btw) will change my mind.
:hehe:
Although, I think it is a bit too serious an issue for a "yah-boo sucks to you" type attitude from one side against the other. Farage has said that, if it is close (52-48), he will demand another referendum. Imagine if the Leave campaign win 50.1-49.9, Farage will have to backtrack quite a bit on that.
My own thoughts are that, every 5 years I elect someone to represent me in Parliament. There's 650 of the bar stewards and, when it comes to major decisions and a chance to justify their 11% pay rises, generous expense packages and large wages, they put it to the public vote.
Regarding the vote, its close in the polls but taking the last election as an example, the polls were neck and neck right up to the vote, I believe this to be because, many voters were too embarrassed to say Tory to the pollsters but in the privacy of the ballot box had no hesitation in looking after themselves resulting in a clear tory win as we know, I think that a pollster asking the voter now, will get many exit votes as the voter will want to be seen as a bit of a rebel, but as soon as the voter gets in the booth, the safe option of stay will get the X and the remain campaign will walk it 70/30, I am a little surprised at how many youngsters are indicating out at the moment.
Mrs Steve R
31-05-16, 23:48
Regarding the vote, its close in the polls but taking the last election as an example, the polls were neck and neck right up to the vote, I believe this to be because, many voters were too embarrassed to say Tory to the pollsters but in the privacy of the ballot box had no hesitation in looking after themselves resulting in a clear tory win as we know, I think that a pollster asking the voter now, will get many exit votes as the voter will want to be seen as a bit of a rebel, but as soon as the voter gets in the booth, the safe option of stay will get the X and the remain campaign will walk it 70/30, I am a little surprised at how many youngsters are indicating out at the moment.
Even if the vote is 70/30 for leaving we will still stay in :hehe:
Even if the vote is 70/30 for leaving we will still stay in :hehe:
Agreed, the UK will not be allowed to leave irrespective of the vote :thumbup:
I was reading 2 days ago that France is well in the shit at the moment financially, the article has disappeared though
My own thoughts are that, every 5 years I elect someone to represent me in Parliament. There's 650 of the bar stewards and, when it comes to major decisions and a chance to justify their 11% pay rises, generous expense packages and large wages, they put it to the public vote.
surely this is a reason to vote Leave
afterall, you will not have the option to vote for a vast % of the EU Politicians
surely this is a reason to vote Leave
afterall, you will not have the option to vote for a vast % of the EU Politicians
A reason to leave one union is because politicians of another union make you vote?
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 10:02
Well I'm not voting leave because of anything that either side has said, I have my own reasons, if other people don't like my reasons it's tough luck, no amount of implying that I'm a racist loon (which is out of order btw) will change my mind.
So you haven't researched the issue at all? That is a shame.
Mrs Steve R
01-06-16, 11:03
So you haven't researched the issue at all? That is a shame.
Nice twist of words there :biggrin: I didn't say I haven't researched it, I said I haven't made my mind up based on what any of those idiots have said in the papers.
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 11:07
Nice twist of words there :biggrin: I didn't say I haven't researched it, I said I haven't made my mind up based on what any of those idiots have said in the papers.
Everybody has an angle.
On the other hand , if he takes us out of Europe, triggering a recession and giving the SNP the chance to split Scotland from the UK, whilst cutting the throat of beloved institutions like the BBC and the NHS he could easily go down as the worst PM ever.
Part of this problem incommunicado get with voters.
How does the fall of BBC and NHS happen if we are not part of Europe ?
Part of this problem incommunicado get with voters.
How does the fall of BBC and NHS happen if we are not part of Europe ?
With no Scotland, and following the recent parliamentary boundary changes, tory government after government would be a lot more likely. And given the makeup of the brexit bunch its fairly safe to assume tgat any lurch to the right would put the bbc and the NHS firmly on target.
As it stands we have a health secretary with links to private medicine who has written a book calling for the NHS to be replaced with an insurance system, and a culture secretary who has described the licence fee as being worse than the poll tax, and the decimation of the bbc as a tantalising prospect and is openly a huge fan of Rupert Murdoch .
To give them the free pass that brexit inevitably would is kissing goodbye to both institutions
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 13:01
With no Scotland, and following the recent parliamentary boundary changes, tory government after government would be a lot more likely. And given the makeup of the brexit bunch its fairly safe to assume tgat any lurch to the right would put the bbc and the NHS firmly on target.
As it stands we have a health secretary with links to private medicine who has written a book calling for the NHS to be replaced with an insurance system, and a culture secretary who has described the licence fee as being worse than the poll tax, and the decimation of the bbc as a tantalising prospect and is openly a huge fan of Rupert Murdoch .
To give them the free pass that brexit inevitably would is kissing goodbye to both institutions
You arent allowed to back up a claim with evidence anymore. That is called scaremongering on ccmb these days.
You arent allowed to back up a claim with evidence anymore. That is called scaremongering on ccmb these days.
But isn't that the same for both sides Eric?,
I'd be interested to read that the NHS, pensions, EURO Army, Jobs, House prices are ring fenced from any Brussels interference, back it up with evidence and I'll shut the f**k up :biggrin: I promise, scaremongering from both sides because the detail from both sides is basically non existent, wouldn't you agree ?.
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 14:48
But isn't that the same for both sides Eric?,
I'd be interested to read that the NHS, pensions, EURO Army, Jobs, House prices are ring fenced from any Brussels interference, back it up with evidence and I'll shut the f**k up :biggrin: I promise, scaremongering from both sides because the detail from both sides is basically non existent, wouldn't you agree ?.
If anyone said that it would be an empty promise anyway. The detail is non-existent because politics has been systematically dumbed down to the point where only headlines matter.
394
What has the Labour led senedd been doing with this dough?, 1033 euro per head more than a cockney
But isn't that the same for both sides Eric?,
I'd be interested to read that the NHS, pensions, EURO Army, Jobs, House prices are ring fenced from any Brussels interference, back it up with evidence and I'll shut the f**k up :biggrin: I promise, scaremongering from both sides because the detail from both sides is basically non existent, wouldn't you agree ?.
Well the simplest answer to that is that we, and every other member state has a veto. So if there is any aspect that we dont want Brussels interference in then we can say no thanks to.
Taunton Blue Genie
01-06-16, 16:11
I find it amusing that rising house prices is considered a bad thing whilst a drop in house prices is also considered undesirable. In reality, your view may very well depend on whether you are 'a have or a have not'.
Even if the vote is 70/30 for leaving we will still stay in :hehe:
The number of votes doesn't matter,who's counting them does.
With no Scotland, and following the recent parliamentary boundary changes, tory government after government would be a lot more likely. And given the makeup of the brexit bunch its fairly safe to assume tgat any lurch to the right would put the bbc and the NHS firmly on target.
As it stands we have a health secretary with links to private medicine who has written a book calling for the NHS to be replaced with an insurance system, and a culture secretary who has described the licence fee as being worse than the poll tax, and the decimation of the bbc as a tantalising prospect and is openly a huge fan of Rupert Murdoch .
To give them the free pass that brexit inevitably would is kissing goodbye to both institutions
The scots won't be getting another referendum unless the government let's them,you repeating that they will ad nauseam doesn't make it true
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/every-day-the-eu-further-threatens-our-sovereignty--and-david-ca/
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 16:43
The scots won't be getting another referendum unless the government let's them,you repeating that they will ad nauseam doesn't make it true
Why would a Conservative government deny them it?
Why would a Conservative government deny them it?
Did you miss the last referendum?
A reason to leave one union is because politicians of another union make you vote?
No, you will not vote for all the politicians in the EU
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 18:25
Did you miss the last referendum?
No. What is your point?
No. What is your point?
How many conservatives were campaigning for Scotland to leave the union?
Badly Ironed Shirt
01-06-16, 19:34
:hehe:
My own thoughts are that, every 5 years I elect someone to represent me in Parliament. There's 650 of the bar stewards and, when it comes to major decisions and a chance to justify their 11% pay rises, generous expense packages and large wages, they put it to the public vote.
surely this is a reason to vote Leave
afterall, you will not have the option to vote for a vast % of the EU Politicians
Not following your logic at all here, sorry. What I am saying is that we have a large number of elected people sitting in Parliament for the next 5 years having only just been put there by the democratic process known as the General Election.
They're the ones who should be making these decisions, not us lot of ill-advised, mis-informed degenerates who think that voting one way solves the one major issue that pisses us off.
Even if I vote leave, every so often the 650 MPs will decide to put another vote-losing option to a referendum just so that they can dodge the electoral mess of putting their own balls on the chopping block.
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 19:36
How many conservatives were campaigning for Scotland to leave the union?
Not many but I would imagine a few would have been secretly hoping, it practically guarantees a long run of conservative dominance in Westminster. Politicians want to govern.
What I want to know is if leaving the EU is such an obviously disastrous idea, then why are they putting it to a public vote?
Personally I think we'll stay but we'll do well not to underestimate the huge amount of old people who could well decide things seeing as:
1. They're more likely to vote than youngsters.
2. They're crazy old bigots.
Not many but I would imagine a few would have been secretly hoping, it practically guarantees a long run of conservative dominance in Westminster. Politicians want to govern.
So they didn't campaign for it, but you think they wanted it in secret, and then moan about other people scaremongering.
The scots won't be getting another referendum unless the government let's them,you repeating that they will ad nauseam doesn't make it true
If there is enough demand for it the uk government would not be able to deny it.
Imagine the SNP called for a referendum and prime minister Boris said no- but they decided to have one anyway which was voted out by a landslide, what could the Tories do? Send in the troops?
You arent allowed to back up a claim with evidence anymore. That is called scaremongering on ccmb these days.
Brussels leak reveals NHS will be ‘KILLED OFF’ if the United Kingdom remains in the EU
http://europeanpressagency.com/featured/brussels-leak-reveals-nhs-will-be-killed-off-if-the-united-kingdom-remains-in-the-eu
No surprise: EU army plans KEPT SECRET from British voters until after Brexit referendum (Video)
http://europeanpressagency.com/politics/no-surprise-eu-army-plans-kept-secret-from-british-voters-until-after-brexit-referendum-video
Claude Blue
01-06-16, 20:33
Brussels leak reveals NHS will be ‘KILLED OFF’ if the United Kingdom remains in the EU
http://europeanpressagency.com/featured/brussels-leak-reveals-nhs-will-be-killed-off-if-the-united-kingdom-remains-in-the-eu
No surprise: EU army plans KEPT SECRET from British voters until after Brexit referendum (Video)
http://europeanpressagency.com/politics/no-surprise-eu-army-plans-kept-secret-from-british-voters-until-after-brexit-referendum-video
Never heard of this "European Press Agency" but flicking through some of it's articles suggests it promotes a certain "agenda"
:sherlock::hehe:
Never heard of this "European Press Agency" but flicking through some of it's articles suggests it promotes a certain "agenda"
:sherlock::hehe:
Neither have I CB, just appeared in my news feed, it is promoting an agenda I'm not in any doubt of that but, isn't Cameron promoting his #Project Fear agenda, it's basically down to who you believe and your personal experience of the UK whilst we have been members.
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 20:49
Brussels leak reveals NHS will be ‘KILLED OFF’ if the United Kingdom remains in the EU
http://europeanpressagency.com/featured/brussels-leak-reveals-nhs-will-be-killed-off-if-the-united-kingdom-remains-in-the-eu
No surprise: EU army plans KEPT SECRET from British voters until after Brexit referendum (Video)
http://europeanpressagency.com/politics/no-surprise-eu-army-plans-kept-secret-from-british-voters-until-after-brexit-referendum-video
This domain was registered in February this year, almost as if for the sole purpose of pumping out anti-eu propaganda before the referendum.
If TTIP eventually becomes ratified (note 'if' and 'eventually') then it will be because Europe has elected leaders and MEP's who have voted in favour of it. We aren't being frogmarched towards the deal by Europe, we are one of the only countries where the major parties are broadly in favour of it.
Regarding an EU army. The EU doesn't need an army, why would it want an army. I can't work out why this is even a talking point. Drummed up by Moscow and some desperate 'leavers' imo.
Jimmy the Jock
01-06-16, 20:50
Go on then i'll bite :biggrin:
Were gunna lose all our jobs
Our house prices are gunna crash
Our pensions will disappear
We'll no longer be safe,
Our currency will crash
Easy Jet will hike their prices
We;ll not be allowed to trade with anyone
#project fear
Just call me Dave :thumbup:
Worked for the Scottish referendum, no reason to see why it wont work again.
Claude Blue
01-06-16, 20:51
Neither have I CB, just appeared in my news feed, it is promoting an agenda I'm not in any doubt of that but, isn't Cameron promoting his #Project Fear agenda, it's basically down to who you believe and your personal experience of the UK whilst we have been members.
Rather misleading to call it the "European Press Agency" don't you think?
Cameron is certainly promoting his own belief that we remain in the EU. Whilst it has been rather over-egged I don't think anyone can seriously dismiss the numerous economic projections about the cost of Brexit as "project fear." That's just laziness and a clear sign that the economic argument is lost.
I agree that it's about one's personal experiences of the UK and where we see it in the future.
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 20:53
Neither have I CB, just appeared in my news feed, it is promoting an agenda I'm not in any doubt of that but, isn't Cameron promoting his #Project Fear agenda, it's basically down to who you believe and your personal experience of the UK whilst we have been members.
What is your personal experience of the UK whilst we have been members?
Not following your logic at all here, sorry. What I am saying is that we have a large number of elected people sitting in Parliament for the next 5 years having only just been put there by the democratic process known as the General Election.
.
that is the point i was making we elect them MP's at the General election, they decide ( and vote ) on Law's and Policies
Now if we stay in and the EU gets more and more power ( to decide on our law's and policies ) we havent elected them, will they do what is better for the UK ? ? ?
Badly Ironed Shirt
01-06-16, 20:55
Brussels leak reveals NHS will be ‘KILLED OFF’ if the United Kingdom remains in the EU
http://europeanpressagency.com/featured/brussels-leak-reveals-nhs-will-be-killed-off-if-the-united-kingdom-remains-in-the-eu
No surprise: EU army plans KEPT SECRET from British voters until after Brexit referendum (Video)
http://europeanpressagency.com/politics/no-surprise-eu-army-plans-kept-secret-from-british-voters-until-after-brexit-referendum-video
I like the commitment in their phraseology. "It appears to confirm".
"It includes a US Proposal" - so, just a proposal, and nothing there to say that the NHS is one of those so-called "Monopolies". I mean, the UK Government has a monopoly on policing, fire fighting, and the military too. Strange how none of these monopolies are under threat.
"But it would still be able to review state-run services in this country. Its duties would include checking that state services do not “distort” the market." - not sure what they base that on but, again, why is the NHS the only service being mentioned?
"One section of the papers makes it clear that the EU and America would seek eventually to end all forms of state intervention in competition with the private sector." - again what bearing does this have on the NHS?
One thing I'd like to mention here, if the US are insisting on a TTIP arrangement with the EU - surely they would insist on something similar when striking a new trade agreement with a UK that has left the EU?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11173369/This-trade-deal-with-America-would-have-Churchill-beaming.html - Said Boris Johnson in October 2014.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-boris-johnson-accused-of-dishonest-gymnastics-over-ttip-u-turn-a7030981.html
On the EU Army, Britain has the right to veto such plans. In fact, as your article mentions, they did exactly that 5 years ago.
Badly Ironed Shirt
01-06-16, 20:57
Neither have I CB, just appeared in my news feed, it is promoting an agenda I'm not in any doubt of that but, isn't Cameron promoting his #Project Fear agenda, it's basically down to who you believe and your personal experience of the UK whilst we have been members.
Don't you think that these articles have an element of "Project Fear" about them?
If there is enough demand for it the uk government would not be able to deny it.
Imagine the SNP called for a referendum and prime minister Boris said no- but they decided to have one anyway which was voted out by a landslide, what could the Tories do? Send in the troops?
The only word that matters in that post is 'imagine'
The only word that matters in that post is 'imagine'
Scotland's first minister has already said that if Scotland votes to stay, but is taken out of the EU by England against the will of the Scottish people then they will have another independence referendum.
As they are the ruling party in Scotland , what could the Tories do to stop them if they do?
Don't you think that these articles have an element of "Project Fear" about them?
I do, the thinly veiled point I was making is that, the so called scaremongering isn't a personal scaremongering crusade from myself but just articles I read along with articles from the other side. :thumbup:
Westminster does have to approve any referendum. The SNP cannot just go ahead and have one. However even the right wing Tories would struggle to turn down another referendum given that the Scots people's desires to stay in the EU had been dashed by the English.
jackrabbit
01-06-16, 21:47
The problem is there are loons on both sides.
Vote to leave and a world war is on the horizon with house prices dropping 15-20% and absolutely mega thousands of jobs to be lost.
No factual proof of any of it but it sure scares the voting public, which is their aim..
i would have thought that would be the best news possible for all you young people on here.
rudy gestede
01-06-16, 22:01
i would have thought that would be the best news possible for all you young people on here.
Do you know what props our economy up? Read a book ffs
Scotland's first minister has already said that if Scotland votes to stay, but is taken out of the EU by England against the will of the Scottish people then they will have another independence referendum.
As they are the ruling party in Scotland , what could the Tories do to stop them if they do?
They would wait until the tantrum finished and carry on,more to the point what could the snp do,send the troops in?
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 22:39
So they didn't campaign for it, but you think they wanted it in secret, and then moan about other people scaremongering.
So I am not allowed to think things now?
Mrs Steve R will presumably be in very soon to defend my right to an opinion.
Eric Cartman
01-06-16, 22:43
They would wait until the tantrum finished and carry on,more to the point what could the snp do,send the troops in?
The SNP could do nothing. More to the point though why would a Tory government not want to make it easier for themselves to win elections in the future?
So I am not allowed to think things now?
Mrs Steve R will presumably be in very soon to defend my right to an opinion.
Of course you can think what you like, but whinging about people scaremongering then using your own thoughts as scaremongering is obviously going to be pointed out.
Eric Cartman
02-06-16, 00:11
Of course you can think what you like, but whinging about people scaremongering then using your own thoughts as scaremongering is obviously going to be pointed out.
This thread is full of people who have whinged about scaremongering and then done it themselves, my accusation to nelson was made precisely because he has been crying ' scaremongering' for weeks at anything remotely anti-leave. You have bypassed all of them to have a go at me. You seem to have some sort of problem with me. Not sure why.
This thread is full of people who have whinged about scaremongering and then done it themselves, my accusation to nelson was made precisely because he has been crying ' scaremongering' for weeks at anything remotely anti-leave. You have bypassed all of them to have a go at me. You seem to have some sort of problem with me. Not sure why.
I have no problem with you. :thumbup:
I've not read the whole thread but yours seemed to stick out on the latter part that I have read. If it helps I told Nelson he was talking garbage in a thread the other day.
Mrs Steve R
02-06-16, 00:41
I have no problem with you. :thumbup:
I've not read the whole thread but yours seemed to stick out on the latter part that I have read. If it helps I told Nelson he was talking garbage in a thread the other day.
Who haven't you said that to? :hehe:
Who haven't you said that to? :hehe:
Who takes any notice of what he says?, ever :hehe:
http://yournewswire.com/japanese-leader-warns-huge-financial-crisis-about-to-hit-world/
394
What has the Labour led senedd been doing with this dough?, 1033 euro per head more than a cockney
Shocking isn't it. Wales is one of the poorest countries in Europe. Shows what hundreds of years of mistreatment from Westminster can do.
Shocking isn't it. Wales is one of the poorest countries in Europe. Shows what hundreds of years of mistreatment from Westminster can do.
Would you keep on pouring money at a rate of a 1000 euro extra per head, into a bunch of politicians that used it to create more wealth for themselves than the people that they are supposed to represent ?
Would you keep on pouring money at a rate of a 1000 euro extra per head, into a bunch of politicians that used it to create more wealth for themselves than the people that they are supposed to represent ?
I'd hope that the electorate would wake up and see that the politicians are having them on. Unfortunately Wales isn't there yet.
I'd hope that the electorate would wake up and see that the politicians are having them on. Unfortunately Wales isn't there yet.
But the FACT remains Tommy is that, Wales has been getting 1000 euro extra per head more than many other parts of the UK but the usual suspects still want to blame Westminster when they should be looking at the performance of Welsh Labour cemented in the senedd for the past 18 years.
jackrabbit
02-06-16, 21:40
Do you know what props our economy up? Read a book ffs
I've probably read more books than you've had hot baths, but that aside, high property prices are the most divisive factor between the generations at the moment. We old people benefitted from moderate house prices and were able to estimate approx 4 times salary as being affordable for our first property purchase. You'd be looking at 10 times salary at least these days. Although I'm a property owner, I would welcome a downward adjustment in the whole property market. Why? I have 2 sons in their 20s. By the way if you're going to to reply, kindly remember your manners g'boy.
Mrs Steve R
02-06-16, 22:12
Who takes any notice of what he says?, ever :hehe:
http://yournewswire.com/japanese-leader-warns-huge-financial-crisis-about-to-hit-world/
I always do :hehe:
I've probably read more books than you've had hot baths, but that aside, high property prices are the most divisive factor between the generations at the moment. We old people benefitted from moderate house prices and were able to estimate approx 4 times salary as being affordable for our first property purchase. You'd be looking at 10 times salary at least these days. Although I'm a property owner, I would welcome a downward adjustment in the whole property market. Why? I have 2 sons in their 20s. By the way if you're going to to reply, kindly remember your manners g'boy.
10 X your salary is just crazy, of course it just keep the housing market high and creates more demand for rentals
I always do :hehe:
Booooo :hehe:
10 X your salary is just crazy, of course it just keep the housing market high and creates more demand for rentals
It's more like 12 times - and rising.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/02/housing-market-gulf-salaries-house-prices
10 X your salary is just crazy, of course it just keep the housing market high and creates more demand for rentals
It's bloody mad, I made my final payment on my house last month, with 7 years at my previous house, I've been paying a mortgage for 33 years in total, my daughter is OKish and is on the ladder, but my son (23) still lives with us, he earns enough to support himself but, has free board and lodge with us, he'd love to get his own gaff but it just isn't possible for him to do that at the moment, he has a part time job in addition to what he pockets from his music. We enjoy having him home and probably makes it too easy for him not to stretch himself looking for his own place, its all relative but but my 1st house in Moorland road Splott (No. 112) cost £16,250 I could afford to buy that on 2.5 x my salary at the time and 1 x hers, We bought this house for 64,000, we really stretched ourselves to buy it at the time, a big increase in mortgage and my wife gave up work when we moved here as she was preggers with our son, I feel for many of the youngsters, how are they supposed to buy houses today?
It's bloody mad, I made my final payment on my house last month, with 7 years at my previous house, I've been paying a mortgage for 33 years in total, my daughter is OKish and is on the ladder, but my son (23) still lives with us, he earns enough to support himself but, has free board and lodge with us, he'd love to get his own gaff but it just isn't possible for him to do that at the moment, he has a part time job in addition to what he pockets from his music. We enjoy having him home and probably makes it too easy for him not to stretch himself looking for his own place, its all relative but but my 1st house in Moorland road Splott (No. 112) cost £16,250 I could afford to buy that on 2.5 x my salary at the time and 1 x hers, We bought this house for 64,000, we really stretched ourselves to buy it at the time, a big increase in mortgage and my wife gave up work when we moved here as she was preggers with our son, I feel for many of the youngsters, how are they supposed to buy houses today?
I think many people take on huge mortgages but won't pay them off. They will look to sell off when their kids have flown the nest and trade down and pay off their mortgages.
I think many people take on huge mortgages but won't pay them off. They will look to sell off when their kids have flown the nest and trade down and pay off their mortgages.
Our home is up for sale at the moment, obviously have been speaking to quite a few estate agents, what you are saying is 100% correct but add on, part of the money made downsizing is given to a son or daughter as a deposit for their house :hehe: my lads not even keen on this :hehe: as he realises gas, leccy, food etc. costs!!!!!
Mrs Steve R
02-06-16, 22:58
It's bloody mad, I made my final payment on my house last month, with 7 years at my previous house, I've been paying a mortgage for 33 years in total, my daughter is OKish and is on the ladder, but my son (23) still lives with us, he earns enough to support himself but, has free board and lodge with us, he'd love to get his own gaff but it just isn't possible for him to do that at the moment, he has a part time job in addition to what he pockets from his music. We enjoy having him home and probably makes it too easy for him not to stretch himself looking for his own place, its all relative but but my 1st house in Moorland road Splott (No. 112) cost £16,250 I could afford to buy that on 2.5 x my salary at the time and 1 x hers, We bought this house for 64,000, we really stretched ourselves to buy it at the time, a big increase in mortgage and my wife gave up work when we moved here as she was preggers with our son, I feel for many of the youngsters, how are they supposed to buy houses today?
I can't see my daughter ever affording to buy a house either.
Did you see this? it came in to force in March, don't you just love the EU :biggrin:
"Urgent warning: EU remortgage rules could create mortgage prisoners"
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/mortgages/2015/04/mortgages-warning-EU
I can't see my daughter ever affording to buy a house either.
Did you see this? it came in to force in March, don't you just love the EU :biggrin:
"Urgent warning: EU remortgage rules could create mortgage prisoners"
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/mortgages/2015/04/mortgages-warning-EU
Scaremongering :hehe: I can remember when getting my 1st mortgage and being wary of taking on too much but many were getting silly mortgages going way over their earnings ratio and there wasn't much regulation of this, in hindsight it was obviously the way to do it. If we chuck away the mentality of being a home ownership nation, rents are at stupid levels.
But the FACT remains Tommy is that, Wales has been getting 1000 euro extra per head more than many other parts of the UK but the usual suspects still want to blame Westminster when they should be looking at the performance of Welsh Labour cemented in the senedd for the past 18 years.
You're right. Wales getting into this state is a result of shocking mismanagement from Westminster. Welsh labours failure of getting Wales on the right track and away from needing eu funding is also a massive problem. Hopefully both will be fixed at some stage
Blue in the Face
22-06-16, 14:31
Micheal Gove. Is there a bigger T.Watt in politics right now?
So it emerges he is on a life long revenge mission with the Brexit thing because he wrongly thinks his old man lost his fishing business in the over fished waters of Scotland. But even his old man disagrees with him!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/15/michael-gove-father-company-eu-policies-fish-processing-aberdeen
And what a moronic hypocrite. He doesn't like government coming from outside of the UK. Yet he is an MP for a constituency in Surrey because he knows full well that no sane person in Scotland would ever vote for the pr1ck.
I think there will be a general election after this in Sept/ Nov time whatever the result tomorrow. So you can have your vote in that.
Why would there be a GE so soon?
Wales-Bales
22-06-16, 15:55
Alternatively, they have put all the "nasties" on the same team to make you vote remain?
If we exit there will most certainly be a general election, so basically you've been conned :hehe:
Mrs Steve R
22-06-16, 16:13
Alternatively, they have put all the "nasties" on the same team to make you vote remain?
If we exit there will most certainly be a general election, so basically you've been conned :hehe:
"The cruel trick that means however you vote on the EU, we’re all screwed"
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/21/the-eu-referendum-is-one-of-the-cruellest-tricks-every-played-on-the-british-public/
I see things a bit different to Kerry who wrote that but I agree on the same outcome #screwed :hehe:
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