View Full Version : Anyone on here from Ebbw Vale?
the other bob wilson
26-06-16, 07:15
Perhaps they can explain why it voted as it did :shrug:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale
the other bob wilson
26-06-16, 07:29
Perhaps they can explain why it voted as it did :shrug:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale
Oops, sorry - I see this article has already been posted on here.
Badly Ironed Shirt
26-06-16, 07:44
Perhaps they can explain why it voted as it did :shrug:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale
At the risk of being labelled a fantasist here by someone who is keeping notes on all of my circumstances - I live in Ebbw Vale.
Ebbw Vale lost it's steelworks a long while back. They have been replaced by an Enterprise Zone that, so far, hasn't been particularly enterprising.
The zone includes a state of the art college that all kids from Tredegar, Ebbw Vale and Abertillery (i think) have to go to once they're in the 6th form.
The area has high unemployment - it was hoping to build a new race track but seemingly fell foul of the EU State Aid law. At the recent assembly elections, Labour squeaked through after losing a chunk of support to UKIP, and a chunk of support to Plaid (I voted Plaid).
The Heads of the Vally road is being upgraded to a dual carriageway between Merthyr and Abergavenny - mostly funded by EU money.
You have the new Beaufort Woodlands and Sirhowy woodlands "parks" funded by EU money.
I can see people voting out because of the Circuit of Wales. I have heard people voted out because of immigration too - but Ebbw Vale has low immigration (no jobs here).
Ebbw Vale has been let down by a succession of Labour and Tory governments. I'm amazed they still vote Labour at all - but they do loyally.
I voted to remain because I can see the projects that are happening, and I blame the Labour assembly for the Circuit of Wales. Many of the projects I spoke of, people probably don't realise it was funded by the EU. Left to the UK, the steelworks site would be rubble still.
I think people voted anti establishment too - a stronger Labour leadership and commitment could have got out a Remain vote. The MP was a remainder but I didn't here of him campaigning at all.
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 14:24
I'm just guessing, but new buildings and roads don't mean much to people who want jobs and some kind of future?
The buildings aren't empty and the roads didn't magically appear.
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 14:57
The buildings aren't empty and the roads didn't magically appear.
Full buildings without jobs aren't going to help people raise families and have a bright future. Expensive restaurants are always full too, but it doesn't mean shit to the people who can't afford to eat in them.
It's not only the people in Ebbw Vale who feel like like this, it is 52% of the population. Something has gone very wrong for a lot of people, and shiny new things don't seem to be the solution for many.
Barry Shitpeas
26-06-16, 15:15
Full buildings without jobs aren't going to help people raise families and have a bright future. Expensive restaurants are always full too, but it doesn't mean shit to the people who can't afford to eat in them.
It's not only the people in Ebbw Vale who feel like like this, it is 52% of the population. Something has gone very wrong for a lot of people, and shiny new things don't seem to be the solution for many.
Something has gone very wrong, six years of Tory austerity. If the people of Blaenau Gwent think that their problems are the result of being in the EU, they are in for an unpleasant surprise.
Jimmy the Jock
26-06-16, 15:27
The way the article is written would suggest Ebbw Vale would have had zero improvement had it not been for the EU . We put more in to the EU coffers than we get out , Ebbw Vale could possibly be even better with UK money rather than EU dosh. No one knows if we will be better in or out . People can surmise, that's all they can do .
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 15:28
Something has gone very wrong, six years of Tory austerity. If the people of Blaenau Gwent think that their problems are the result of being in the EU, they are in for an unpleasant surprise.
In which case is was a protest vote against the government, but it still tells the same story about what they want.
Something has gone very wrong, six years of Tory austerity. If the people of Blaenau Gwent think that their problems are the result of being in the EU, they are in for an unpleasant surprise.
They made a protest vote. Never mind that it was to the wrong people and they will suffer. They made their unhappiness known and that's all that matters.
The way the article is written would suggest Ebbw Vale would have had zero improvement had it not been for the EU . We put more in to the EU coffers than we get out , Ebbw Vale could possibly be even better with UK money rather than EU dosh. No one knows if we will be better in or out . People can surmise, that's all they can do .
We will find out soon when we count up how much London sends there.
Jimmy the Jock
26-06-16, 15:38
We will find out soon when we count up how much London sends there.
Does it need further investment ?
Does it need further investment ?
40% unemployment, sounds like it's already prospering.
Barry Shitpeas
26-06-16, 15:41
I don't believe it was a protest vote, I think that many people in the South Wales valleys have simply fallen hook, line and sinker for Farages bullshit that immigration is the root cause of it and the UKs problems.
Jimmy the Jock
26-06-16, 15:43
40% unemployment, sounds like it's already prospering.
Perhaps some investment in jobs would have been better ?
That Guardian article is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. EU convergence funding was £7 million of the £30 million cost of the new college, and coincidentally also £7million of the £32 million cost of the railway
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbw_Valley_Railway
http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/previous/?lang=en
http://www.bdp.com/en/projects/f-l/the-learning-zone-ebbw-vale-wales/
Don't forget that EU policies on steel and tariffs helped lead to the demise of the steelworks in the first place.
Full buildings without jobs aren't going to help people raise families and have a bright future. Expensive restaurants are always full too, but it doesn't mean shit to the people who can't afford to eat in them.
It's not only the people in Ebbw Vale who feel like like this, it is 52% of the population. Something has gone very wrong for a lot of people, and shiny new things don't seem to be the solution for many.
I'm going to sound like Norman here which I am most definitely not but WTF do the people then want in terms of help then? Millions upon millions poured in for infrastructure. Do they have a huge sense of entitlement without showing any enterprise themselves? Get off yer arses and help yourselves. Rant over.
Perhaps some investment in jobs would have been better ?
Don't think anyone in ebbw vale was stopping Westminster doing that. They could have put some new buildings and roads in to encourage companies to set up there.
Jimmy the Jock
26-06-16, 15:56
That Guardian article is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. EU convergence funding was £7 million of the £30 million cost of the new college, and coincidentally also £7million of the £32 million cost of the railway
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbw_Valley_Railway
http://gov.wales/funding/eu-funds/previous/?lang=en
http://www.bdp.com/en/projects/f-l/the-learning-zone-ebbw-vale-wales/
Don't forget that EU policies on steel and tariffs helped lead to the demise of the steelworks in the first place.
Please don't let facts get in the way of propaganda . Without the EU we are all going to die , unfortunately , for the people of Ebbw Vale they will go first .
Badly Ironed Shirt
26-06-16, 16:07
Does it need further investment ?
Ebbw Vale? Yes. Tredegar? Definitely. Merthyr Tydfil - less so. Abertillery? Brynmawr? These places need jobs and have had very little investment from the UK governments since the early 70s.
Badly Ironed Shirt
26-06-16, 16:11
I don't believe it was a protest vote, I think that many people in the South Wales valleys have simply fallen hook, line and sinker for Farages bullshit that immigration is the root cause of it and the UKs problems.
Well, when the party people vote for out of blind loyalty stops offering hope - people look for things to blame. The blame lies on Blair's regime - after that the people who don't vote out of blind loyalty realised Labour was offering sod all.
A lot of the people around here really had no idea what they were even voting about (with many not intelligent enough to understand) and the campaigning for remain was absolutely minimal, over the last few months I received one leaflet through the door about Remain and even that wasn't clear
Of the three people from Ebbw Vale interviewed on the news, one said she voted out as the council closed the public toilets last year, one said 'immigrants, they're here taking all our jobs' and another said because the factories are 99% Polish - a blend of misunderstanding, fear, ignorance and scapegoating
and then going by what I've seen on Facebook, people being scared of the unknown, bringing up things like suicide bombers, sharia law and all that nonsense (generally those from the poorest areas in Blaenau Gwent) It's quite depressing how focused people around here are on the likes of immigration where the majority probably see the maximum of 1 or 2 immigrants during their normal week. Most of the ones I know that complain about immigrants taking jobs etc are middle aged, do not work and have no intention of doing so and just use it as an excuse for why they do fook all
As well as all of this, many seem happy just because it's led to Cameron resigning, but what they don't understand is he'll just be replaced by another conservative who'll be just the same and the likes of Blaenau Gwent will become forgotten and further deprived yet again
Colonel Cærdiffi
26-06-16, 16:18
Perhaps they can explain why it voted as it did :shrug:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale
Could've sworn I saw you bemoaning the lack of football posts on here earlier on.
A lot of the people around here really had no idea what they were even voting about (with many not intelligent enough to understand) and the campaigning for remain was absolutely minimal, over the last few months I received one leaflet through the door about Remain and even that wasn't clear
Of the three people from Ebbw Vale interviewed on the news, one said she voted out as the council closed the public toilets last year, one said 'immigrants, they're here taking all our jobs' and another said because the factories are 99% Polish - a blend of misunderstanding, fear, ignorance and scapegoating
and then going by what I've seen on Facebook, people being scared of the unknown, bringing up things like suicide bombers, sharia law and all that nonsense (generally those from the poorest areas in Blaenau Gwent) It's quite depressing how focused people around here are on the likes of immigration where the majority probably see the maximum of 1 or 2 immigrants during their normal week. Most of the ones I know that complain about immigrants taking jobs etc are middle aged, do not work and have no intention of doing so and just use it as an excuse for why they do fook all
As well as all of this, many seem happy just because it's led to Cameron resigning, but what they don't understand is he'll just be replaced by another conservative who'll be just the same and the likes of Blaenau Gwent will become forgotten and further deprived yet again
Your post says it all. Cameron should not have put such an important decision to the people.
I wonder how many people were interviewed before they found Zak?
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:01
Could've sworn I saw you bemoaning the lack of football posts on here earlier on.
Meeeoooow :hehe:
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:06
I wonder how many people were interviewed before they found Zak?
It's all been stage-managed from the very beginning. The only thing that they couldn't control entirely was the general voting public, but by heck it wasn't through want of trying :hehe:
I'm from Ebbw Vale and the result of the vote has left me to feel embarrassed to be Welsh.
Many people I have spoken to since the vote could only give xenophobic reasons or wanted to punish the "elite" for the state of the economy or to get our country back.
If this was a protest vote they have only damaged themselves and the future of the Valleys.
Over the last 20 years it has been EU funding that has provided the infrastructure changes that the Valleys needed and help with the clean-up of the Valley following the mining industry collapse. Drive around the valleys now and there is no sign of the blackened landscape that the legacy of mining. This would not have happened without objective one funding from Europe. No Tory government would have spent money on the Valleys as they are a lost cause to them.
By leaving we have cut off the main source of funding that was not reliant on political positioning. The EU funding is based on need, not how the area voted in the last election. For those who say it was own money, I will point out that Wales receives £70 per head above what the county contributes.
We have now lost our protection from extreme governments of the left or right, which Europe provided. There are 40 years’ worth of laws that now are up for shredding. The next government can cherry pick which laws they would want to change. They will keep the ones which suit them and rewrite the ones which they don’t like. Expect changes to employment laws that would benefit corporations rather than employees. Laws that protect us from being overworked, health and safety and employment rights will be amongst the first to change.
A depressing future awaits us.
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:12
I'm from Ebbw Vale and the result of the vote has left me to feel embarrassed to be Welsh.
Many people I have spoken to since the vote could only give xenophobic reasons or wanted to punish the "elite" for the state of the economy or to get our country back.
If this was a protest vote they have only damaged themselves and the future of the Valleys.
Over the last 20 years it has been EU funding that has provided the infrastructure changes that the Valleys needed and help with the clean-up of the Valley following the mining industry collapse. Drive around the valleys now and there is no sign of the blackened landscape that the legacy of mining. This would not have happened without objective one funding from Europe. No Tory government would have spent money on the Valleys as they are a lost cause to them.
By leaving we have cut off the main source of funding that was not reliant on political positioning. The EU funding is based on need, not how the area voted in the last election. For those who say it was own money, I will point out that Wales receives £70 per head above what the county contributes.
We have now lost our protection from extreme governments of the left or right, which Europe provided. There are 40 years’ worth of laws that now are up for shredding. The next government can cherry pick which laws they would want to change. They will keep the ones which suit them and rewrite the ones which they don’t like. Expect changes to employment laws that would benefit corporations rather than employees. Laws that protect us from being overworked, health and safety and employment rights will be amongst the first to change.
A depressing future awaits us.
What about the other half of the country who are not £70 per head better off than what the county contributes? Are you saying they must suffer so that the people in the special case that is Ebbw Vale can be £70 per head better off?
What about the other half of the country who are not £70 per head better off than what the county contributes? Are you saying they must suffer so that the people in the special case that is Ebbw Vale can be £70 per head better off?
The £70 per head is not for Ebbw Vale, it is for the the whole of Wales. It just not Ebbw Vale that received investment, many areas of Wales including Cardiff and Swansea benefited.
Croesy Blue
26-06-16, 17:19
What about the other half of the country who are not £70 per head better off than what the county contributes? Are you saying they must suffer so that the people in the special case that is Ebbw Vale can be £70 per head better off?
But they aren't suffering the areas that can afford to contribute more than they get out do, the same way people who earn more pay higher taxes.
I'm originally from Blaenau Gwent and you can see how the area has benefited over the last ten years, it wasn't enough but it was something. I'm worried to see what will happen to these areas next, whoever gets in. I wouldn't trust a labour or a Tory government to take notice of the area, especially one fronted by Boris.
Full buildings without jobs aren't going to help people raise families and have a bright future. Expensive restaurants are always full too, but it doesn't mean shit to the people who can't afford to eat in them.
It's not only the people in Ebbw Vale who feel like like this, it is 52% of the population. Something has gone very wrong for a lot of people, and shiny new things don't seem to be the solution for many.
The companies in the buildings and the continuing A465 development have and are continuing to provide employment for a great many people, things would be worse without them. The Metro and M4 expansion, should they go ahead now they won't be eligible for EU grants, will also provide great opportunities. Perhaps those without jobs could use the new college facilities and/or EU funded training (while we still have it) to improve their job prospects. Sadly I suspect a proportion of the population would rather use baseless excuses than trying to better themselves and their employability.
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:23
The £70 per head is not for Ebbw Vale, it is for the the whole of Wales. It just not Ebbw Vale that received investment, many areas of Wales including Cardiff and Swansea benefited.
Ebbw Vale is a special case. It falls within the category of being one of the most deprived areas in the EU, and they get more money than anybody else.
Mrs Steve R
26-06-16, 17:25
Your post says it all. Cameron should not have put such an important decision to the people.
Have you ever thought of moving to Russia?
It was a shame how badly the area was neglected until the Objective 1 money started to arrive. I shudder to think how bad the area would be now without it.
Ebbw Vale is a special case. It falls within the category of being one of the most deprived areas in the EU, and they get more money than anybody else.
True but it averages out at £70 per head in Wales. The Ebbw Vale figure would be much higher than £70 as they qualify for the greatest aid.
Which proves my point about the funding being based on need, not political posturing. So the Valleys will now be dependent on political patronage. Tories will not invest because were are not their people and the central Labour party will not invest as were are unlikely to vote tory.
I'm just guessing, but new buildings and roads don't mean much to people who want jobs and some kind of future?
Who built the new buildings and roads? Slaves?
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:33
Who built the new buildings and roads? Slaves?
Brits? That Guardian article leaves out more than it says.
tigerbaybluebird
26-06-16, 17:39
https://fullfact.org/europe/wales-getting-best-deal-out-eu/
Croesy Blue
26-06-16, 17:40
Have you ever thought of moving to Russia?
Why have a referendum on this though and not any other big decisions the government has to make? It was purely a vote winner that Cameron expected to be vetoed by a coalition government.
None of us (or 90%+) were educated enough on the subject to make an informed decision and we elect others to speak to relevant experts and make informed decisions.
The funniest thing about this is how the conspiracy nuts are doing back flips to make it a conspiracy. Oh we won't get a vote on this, oh umm the vote will be rigged, oh right make sure you take pens because they'll rub out your cross and make sure we remain, they won't actually take us out of the EU.
The only actual conspiracy here is Rupert Murdoch rules this country via his media companies and knows how to get straight to the heart of the electorate via fear mongering over immigration. The man is a **** and has more power over us than ever.
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:47
https://fullfact.org/europe/wales-getting-best-deal-out-eu/
It is also true that as the EU expands eastwards, The UK (and Wales) will receive less and less. So it may not always be the case that we are a net beneficiary in Wales. And we don't know where the EU is going to stop. Who's next after Turkey? Are they going to join together the whole of the ME with Europe? N.Africa? These guys in Brussels have some big plans.
I don't believe it was a protest vote, I think that many people in the South Wales valleys have simply fallen hook, line and sinker for Farages bullshit that immigration is the root cause of it and the UKs problems.
This. Just as many are falling for Trump's similar rhetoric.
The people who voted leave have been played by Farage and Boris.
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:52
This. Just as many are falling for Trump's similar rhetoric.
The people who voted leave have been played by Farage and Boris.
Farage is now out of vote leave and Boris looks like he doesn't want to be in it any more.
Sadly as the EU has pushed eastwards the Welsh valleys have still been amongst the poorest areas.
Farage is now out of vote leave and Boris looks like he doesn't want to be in it any more.
and why do you think that is?
Wales-Bales
26-06-16, 17:54
and why do you think that is?
Just a gut feeling.
dandywarhol
26-06-16, 18:15
Correct.
All the Valley towns Ive been to are shitholes.
Lovely people raped by the Tories and not given the corect aftercare by labour.
They were bound to fight back one day
I'm from Ebbw Vale and the result of the vote has left me to feel embarrassed to be Welsh.
Many people I have spoken to since the vote could only give xenophobic reasons or wanted to punish the "elite" for the state of the economy or to get our country back.
If this was a protest vote they have only damaged themselves and the future of the Valleys.
Over the last 20 years it has been EU funding that has provided the infrastructure changes that the Valleys needed and help with the clean-up of the Valley following the mining industry collapse. Drive around the valleys now and there is no sign of the blackened landscape that the legacy of mining. This would not have happened without objective one funding from Europe. No Tory government would have spent money on the Valleys as they are a lost cause to them.
By leaving we have cut off the main source of funding that was not reliant on political positioning. The EU funding is based on need, not how the area voted in the last election. For those who say it was own money, I will point out that Wales receives £70 per head above what the county contributes.
We have now lost our protection from extreme governments of the left or right, which Europe provided. There are 40 years’ worth of laws that now are up for shredding. The next government can cherry pick which laws they would want to change. They will keep the ones which suit them and rewrite the ones which they don’t like. Expect changes to employment laws that would benefit corporations rather than employees. Laws that protect us from being overworked, health and safety and employment rights will be amongst the first to change.
A depressing future awaits us.
Excellent post.
Have you ever thought of moving to Russia?
:hehe: mefeckingow
Mrs Steve R
26-06-16, 19:10
Why have a referendum on this though and not any other big decisions the government has to make? It was purely a vote winner that Cameron expected to be vetoed by a coalition government.
None of us (or 90%+) were educated enough on the subject to make an informed decision and we elect others to speak to relevant experts and make informed decisions.
The funniest thing about this is how the conspiracy nuts are doing back flips to make it a conspiracy. Oh we won't get a vote on this, oh umm the vote will be rigged, oh right make sure you take pens because they'll rub out your cross and make sure we remain, they won't actually take us out of the EU.
The only actual conspiracy here is Rupert Murdoch rules this country via his media companies and knows how to get straight to the heart of the electorate via fear mongering over immigration. The man is a **** and has more power over us than ever.
Once again I didn't mention any conspiracy, to answer your question, I think the public should have more input on other decisions that are made that affect their lives, as I said the other day there should be at least a system that we can give our input on bills going through as there are many that I'm sure people would be dead against if they had known about them, I know quite a few on here signed the petition against the privatisation of the Land registry but should they have to do that? personally I don't think they should.
I can see why you would think that some of my posts are conspiracy related but believe me my core principles have always been the same, I believe in fairness and everyone having a voice, if I don't think something is fair then I will probably have a moan about it, that will never change, conspiracy or no conspiracy. :thumbup: Murdoch is a scum bag, that's something we agree on.
Farage is now out of vote leave and Boris looks like he doesn't want to be in it any more.
Boris is gutted. Even he thought the electorate wouldn't be this stupid.
Farage is now out of vote leave and Boris looks like he doesn't want to be in it any more.
Farage and Boris both got what they wanted. By lying. And now Boris is favourite to be the next PM.
Badly Ironed Shirt
26-06-16, 19:26
Boris is gutted. Even he thought the electorate wouldn't be this stupid.
He must have thought that Leave would win. He obviously wanted Cameron to stick around to do the grafting - based on the fact he signed a letter asking Cameron to stay on regardless of the result. Johnson probably thought Cameron would stay on, and he could then claim the top job once everything settled down. He seems to be forced into a political corner.
Correct.
All the Valley towns Ive been to are shitholes.
Lovely people raped by the Tories and not given the corect aftercare by labour.
They were bound to fight back one day
Turning into lemmings isn't fighting back.
Badly Ironed Shirt
26-06-16, 19:53
Turning into lemmings isn't fighting back.
To be honest, they are running out of options. There's a lot of pissed off people in places like Ebbw Vale (both in Wales and England) who rarely get a chance to vent their spleen. They've kicked the wrong beast on this referendum, but I can't say I blame those who voted purely to stick two fingers up at the "establishment".
To be honest, they are running out of options. There's a lot of pissed off people in places like Ebbw Vale (both in Wales and England) who rarely get a chance to vent their spleen. They've kicked the wrong beast on this referendum, but I can't say I blame those who voted purely to stick two fingers up at the "establishment".
There's always been an alternative here.
Eric the Half a Bee
26-06-16, 20:50
In which case is was a protest vote against the government, but it still tells the same story about what they want.
Yes, you protest against a Tory government by voting for some different Tories......
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