View Full Version : European Superstate Imminent?
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 00:00
Surely not?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit
Mrs Steve R
28-06-16, 00:08
We haven't avoided anything.. yet :hehe:
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 00:09
We haven't avoided anything.. yet :hehe:
My head can't keep up :hehe:
Ainsley Harriott
28-06-16, 00:19
Surprising that France seem to be going along with this idea of a German-led super-state, considering they were the most against a 'neutral' Germany in the decades after WW2.
Someone should tell the Germans that the last time they tried to 'spread their influence' across the European continent, it didn't go down too kindly with The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Poland etc etc...they shouldn't really be trying to alienate large swathes of Europe again.
Mrs Steve R
28-06-16, 00:25
My head can't keep up :hehe:
I wonder how many of the remain voters would want to remain in that? not sure I really want the answer tbh :hehe:
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 00:29
I wonder how many of the remain voters would want to remain in that? not sure I really want the answer tbh :hehe:
As long as the young people can live and work in Europe who cares about any consequences :thumbup:
Personally, I can't seeing this being true, surely the people in charge are not that mad :hehe:
Ainsley Harriott
28-06-16, 00:29
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein EU...
Mrs Steve R
28-06-16, 00:36
As long as the young people can live and work in Europe who cares about any consequences :thumbup:
Personally, I can't seeing this being true, surely the people in charge are not that mad :hehe:
Aren't they? I think you already know the answer to that. :hehe:
Surprising that France seem to be going along with this idea of a German-led super-state, considering they were the most against a 'neutral' Germany in the decades after WW2.
Someone should tell the Germans that the last time they tried to 'spread their influence' across the European continent, it didn't go down too kindly with The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Poland etc etc...they shouldn't really be trying to alienate large swathes of Europe again.
Not forgetting that much of Germany's current wealth has grown from assets of Jews and occupied countries in the ealy 40s.
Maybe their finances aren't all they're thought to be so they need to top them up.
:hide:
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 00:41
Aren't they? I think you already know the answer to that. :hehe:
I shall believe it when I read it in the Telegraph or the Guardian :glasses:
Croesy Blue
28-06-16, 07:40
Surely this should be huge news and not only be reported by the express and the mail though?
This sounds like it should be breaking news on the bbc and Sky and all the other dailies, but it isn't even mentioned.
If there was an option on the referendum for deeper integration into Europe then I would have voted for that. I don't think it is a bad thing at all.
Croesy Blue
28-06-16, 07:48
Yeah I'm not sure what the fuss is about either, what are thé negatives?
severncity
28-06-16, 07:49
Surely this should be huge news and not only be reported by the express and the mail though?
This sounds like it should be breaking news on the bbc and Sky and all the other dailies, but it isn't even mentioned.
Here is the plan as reported by Reuters and Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-27/the-u-k-doesn-t-have-a-brexit-plan-but-the-eu-does
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-france-idUSKCN0ZC0BQ
Maybe the BBC isn't as impartial as you'd fantasised?
severncity
28-06-16, 07:50
Yeah I'm not sure what the fuss is about either, what are thé negatives?
Imagine having your national budget decided in Berlin, Frankfurt and Brussels. Ask a Greek how they feel about that...
Colonel Cærdiffi
28-06-16, 07:52
Imagine having your national budget decided in Berlin, Frankfurt and Brussels. Ask a Greek how they feel about that...
I just asked a Greek and he said "better than having the budget decided by the crooks in Athens"
Imagine having your national budget decided in Berlin, Frankfurt and Brussels. Ask a Greek how they feel about that...
They seem to care a lot more about the poorer areas than our lot.
Croesy Blue
28-06-16, 08:11
Here is the plan as reported by Reuters and Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-27/the-u-k-doesn-t-have-a-brexit-plan-but-the-eu-does
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-france-idUSKCN0ZC0BQ
Maybe the BBC isn't as impartial as you'd fantasised?
I don't think the bbc is impartial, I think it's leans towards whoever the current government.
You seem a very hate filled man, I can't believe they let you teach kids.
Croesy Blue
28-06-16, 08:12
Imagine having your national budget decided in Berlin, Frankfurt and Brussels. Ask a Greek how they feel about that...
I asked a Greek and they said when you join don't hire expensive American accountants to lie about your countries financial state then you won't be allowed to join the Euro and go bust because of your ridiculous wellfair system and old population.
I asked a Greek and he said hello everybodies peeps, innit.
severncity
28-06-16, 08:32
I don't think the bbc is impartial, I think it's leans towards whoever the current government.
You seem a very hate filled man, I can't believe they let you teach kids.
What hate are you referring to? You are the only person expressing hatred.
Please back up your assertion by quoting a single instance where I've expressed any hatred whatsoever.
If you look back through my posts you will see I am a Hillsborough survivor - I was on the Leppings Lane Terrace. Despite some awful posts by some of the forumers regarding the disaster I didn't express any hatred towards them.
You are hate-filled in comparison to me.
Teddy Bear
28-06-16, 09:01
As long as the young people can live and work in Europe who cares about any consequences :thumbup:
Personally, I can't seeing this being true, surely the people in charge are not that mad :hehe:
Can't we what being true? The idea if a single state has been pushed my some for years now. They will use brexit as a chance to push it further.
The conspiracies on the Germans are coming true. As soon as this deal is pushed through Merkel will take off the mask and reveal herself as a wrinkled Adolf Hitler. Then the vast army Of Nazi soldiers who have been hiding in the Arctic will make their way south.
The Germans just can't help themselves, played the long game though fairplay.
As long as the young people can live and work in Europe who cares about any consequences :thumbup:
Personally, I can't seeing this being true, surely the people in charge are not that mad :hehe:
What's mad about it?
ian gibson
28-06-16, 10:22
The Coudenhove-Kalergi plan
The Coudenhove-Kalergi plan
:facepalm:
Imagine having your national budget decided in Berlin, Frankfurt and Brussels. Ask a Greek how they feel about that...
Yeah haha, imagine having your budget decided in a foreign country. How embarrassing would that be... Oh.. Wait..
severncity
28-06-16, 12:44
Yeah haha, imagine having your budget decided in a foreign country. How embarrassing would that be... Oh.. Wait..
I am a member of Plaid Cymru - I have been for years - and I voted leave. The party has been infiltrated by Brussels sympathisers. Why do you think that being ruled from Brussels would be any better than being ruled from London?
By the way, according to Lord Ashcroft's poll, a majority of Plaid voters chose Leave. Look at Table 7, Question 6 on page 26 of this link:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf
In fact, here's the evidence to save you looking:
524
Leanne is in shock. She knows she has no mandate. Get away from the echo-chamber and groupthink fascism of social media and you'll find that a majority of Wales' population wanted to leave the corrupt EU.
I am a member of Plaid Cymru - I have been for years - and I voted leave. The party has been infiltrated by Brussels sympathisers. Why do you think that being ruled from Brussels would be any better than being ruled from London?
By the way, according to Lord Ashcroft's poll, a majority of Plaid voters chose Leave. Look at Table 7, Question 6 on page 26 of this link:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf
In fact, here's the evidence to save you looking:
524
Leanne is in shock. She knows she has no mandate. Get away from the echo-chamber and groupthink fascism of social media and you'll find that a majority of Wales' population wanted to leave the corrupt EU.
Generally speaking, the EU has been a lot better to Wales than the UK. That's why I think we were better within. Not to mention that the only thing that'll change will be our influence on the house, the payments and freedom of movement will be the same. I think the people have been sold a lie. It's a shame we couldn't see it before Thursday though.
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 13:37
What's mad about it?
Our armed forces under the control of Germany/Brussels and joining the Euro for a start, not to mention complete political integration. If it happens, it's no longer just a common market for goods is it?
Furthermore, if it is true then Cameron, Obama, IMF, Merkel, Hollande, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc,. must have known about this when they were all imploring us to remain, yet nobody thought to mention it?
You might think it will be fun to live under a globalist government with all local cultures destroyed, but I'm afraid I don't share you opinion. It's clearly a battle between national identity and globalism, and I'm not for the destruction of nation states.
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 13:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlN9o3g-yuA
Our armed forces under the control of Germany/Brussels and joining the Euro for a start, not to mention complete political integration. If it happens, it's no longer just a common market for goods is it?
Furthermore, if it is true then Cameron, Obama, IMF, Merkel, Hollande, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc,. must have known about this when they were all imploring us to remain, yet nobody thought to mention it?
You might think it will be fun to live under a globalist government with all local cultures destroyed, but I'm afraid I don't share you opinion. It's clearly a battle between national identity and globalism, and I'm not for the destruction of nation states.
Armed forces are a very good thing to commonise- for us to have trident is very expensive, if Europe paid for it it would be very affordable.
Even if any of the above list of people were aware of further integration (and some of them probably weren't) there is nothing to say this would apply to the uk. Britain has an opt out remember. And a veto.
I think it would be good to live under a global government. And don't accept that local cultures wouldn't be able to survive.
The nation state as a concept is outdated. There are far more efficient ways to organise our societies.
What positive things have come from nationalism?
Armed forces are a very good thing to commonise- for us to have trident is very expensive, if Europe paid for it it would be very affordable.
So Argentina invade the Falklands again, we then have to go and ask the EU ( who control the armed forces ) if we can go and take the Falklands back, they call a meeting and vote on it and come back to us and say " no go, little old UK, we wouldnt want to upset any trade routes with the south Americans "
Oh sorry Falklands, you are on your own now, cheerio :wave:
Colonel Cærdiffi
28-06-16, 14:02
So Argentina invade the Falklands again, we then have to go and ask the EU ( who control the armed forces ) if we can go and take the Falklands back, they call a meeting and vote on it and come back to us and say " no go, little old UK, we wouldnt want to upset any trade routes with the south Americans "
Oh sorry Falklands, you are on your own now, cheerio :wave:
I can't help thinking that's the sort of thing that might get agreed in advance.
I can't help thinking that's the sort of thing that might get agreed in advance.
you would hope so, but lets be honest, would you trust a politician in Brussels ? ? ? ( or anywhere for that matter )
the thought of upsetting a trade route would be bigger that any agreement, and what could we do about it, send a PM to strike a deal ? ? ?
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 14:07
So Argentina invade the Falklands again, we then have to go and ask the EU ( who control the armed forces ) if we can go and take the Falklands back, they call a meeting and vote on it and come back to us and say " no go, little old UK, we wouldnt want to upset any trade routes with the south Americans "
Oh sorry Falklands, you are on your own now, cheerio :wave:
Yes, the national interest becomes obsolete.
you would hope so, but lets be honest, would you trust a politician in Brussels ? ? ? ( or anywhere for that matter )
the thought of upsetting a trade route would be bigger that any agreement, and what could we do about it, send a PM to strike a deal ? ? ?
Leaving the EU probably has a bigger effect on the day to day lives of most British people than us losing the Falklands.
So Argentina invade the Falklands again, we then have to go and ask the EU ( who control the armed forces ) if we can go and take the Falklands back, they call a meeting and vote on it and come back to us and say " no go, little old UK, we wouldnt want to upset any trade routes with the south Americans "
Oh sorry Falklands, you are on your own now, cheerio :wave:
Presumably us and all of the other nations would want firm guarantees on what would happen in the event of things like that happening before they joined.
France has a lot of overseas territories too, I can't see them agreeing to anything they thought would prevent themselves from defending it.
Leaving the EU probably has a bigger effect on the day to day lives of most British people than us losing the Falklands.
oh thats ok then, just the answer i would expect from you
Presumably us and all of the other nations would want firm guarantees on what would happen in the event of things like that happening before they joined.
France has a lot of overseas territories too, I can't see them agreeing to anything they thought would prevent themselves from defending it.
The point being would you trust Brussels ( or Berlin ) to keep to these agreements ?? ? especially if other countries voted on the matter and wanted trade deals / routes with certain countries
A shared EU armed force is not for me thanks
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 14:27
A move to a political union means all of the current rules change, and the EU will not be what it is now. So ask yourself, if it is such a great thing, why is it a subject that cannot be spoken about, and has consistently been been denied for 50+ years?
Mrs Steve R
28-06-16, 14:32
[video[/video]
I've never really been a fan of Farage but he has always said what he thinks of them..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiRM3c7_iYI
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 14:40
I've never really been a fan of Farage but he has always said what he thinks of them.
The Euro is going to fail there is no doubt about that, and as Farage correctly points out they will be coming for your assets just as they did in Cyprus.
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 14:42
The Sun speaks :biggrin:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/1354489/eu-unveils-plans-for-giant-superstate-just-days-after-britain-voted-brexit/
The Euro is going to fail there is no doubt about that, and as Farage correctly points out they will be coming for your assets just as they did in Cyprus.
You'd better tell them then if you have a crystal ball
So Argentina invade the Falklands again, we then have to go and ask the EU ( who control the armed forces ) if we can go and take the Falklands back, they call a meeting and vote on it and come back to us and say " no go, little old UK, we wouldnt want to upset any trade routes with the south Americans "
Oh sorry Falklands, you are on your own now, cheerio :wave:
it's funny, when economists warn against brexit, its scaremongering. When you talk about something far more far-fetched, it's fact. go figure
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 14:48
You'd better tell them then if you have a crystal ball
It doesn't need a crystal ball to see that the Euro is fecked :thumbup:
If the EU were to fail, who would that be good news for?
Putin?
China?
USA?
Multinational companies?
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 14:55
If the EU were to fail, who would that be good news for?
Putin?
China?
USA?
Multinational companies?
The globalists.
Mrs Steve R
28-06-16, 15:00
The Sun speaks :biggrin:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/1354489/eu-unveils-plans-for-giant-superstate-just-days-after-britain-voted-brexit/
I keep seeing things like that saying we dodged a bullet ect but we are still in the EU at the moment :hehe:
it's funny, when economists warn against brexit, its scaremongering. When you talk about something far more far-fetched, it's fact. go figure
what part is far fetched ? ? ?
The Argentinians invading the Falkland Islands ? ?? you might have missed it, it happened a while back, 1982 ( without googling it )
A Europeans armed force ? ? ? hasnt this been discussed before ? ? ?
what part is far fetched ? ? ?
The Argentinians invading the Falkland Islands ? ?? you might have missed it, it happened a while back, 1982 ( without googling it )
A Europeans armed force ? ? ? hasnt this been discussed before ? ? ?
so it's guaranteed to happen following an IN vote, right? jeez talk about scaremongering
so it's guaranteed to happen following an IN vote, right? jeez talk about scaremongering
where have i said it is guaranteed to happen ? ? ?
where have i said it is guaranteed to happen ? ? ?
are you trying to tell me that this isnt going to happen? then why bring it up? oh right yeah, scaremongering :wave:
it's funny, when economists warn against brexit, its scaremongering. When you talk about something far more far-fetched, it's fact. go figure
so it's guaranteed to happen following an IN vote, right? jeez talk about scaremongering
are you trying to tell me that this isnt going to happen? then why bring it up? oh right yeah, scaremongering :wave:
first of all you say " it's fact. and not scaremongering "
now its scaremongering
its a worse case scenario but only 2 years ago Argentina were making the wrong noises about the Falklands and were not russia leasing them some fighter jets ? ? ? so who knows down the line what will happen, i just like the idea of a armed force that we ( the UK ) whole 100% control over
first of all you say " it's fact. and not scaremongering "
now its scaremongering
its a worse case scenario but only 2 years ago Argentina were making the wrong noises about the Falklands and were not russia leasing them some fighter jets ? ? ? so who knows down the line what will happen, i just like the idea of a armed force that we ( the UK ) whole 100% control over
What are you on about here? surely you understand the point I'm making.. if not, I'd be worried.
Of course, but as many have said, the UK have a veto. And what's more, this would obviously be spoken about before a hypothetical European army was created.
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 20:19
What are you on about here? surely you understand the point I'm making.. if not, I'd be worried.
Of course, but as many have said, the UK have a veto. And what's more, this would obviously be spoken about before a hypothetical European army was created.
I don't think that is how political union works :-)
I don't think that is how political union works :-)
How does it work then oh wise one
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 20:22
How does it work then oh wise one
The majority in Brussels decide who they are going to bomb or not.
What are you on about here? surely you understand the point I'm making.. if not, I'd be worried.
Of course, but as many have said, the UK have a veto. And what's more, this would obviously be spoken about before a hypothetical European army was created.
I understood what you were saying, but i found it entertaining you first said :
it's funny, when economists warn against brexit, its scaremongering. When you talk about something far more far-fetched, it's fact. go figure
my scenario was suddenly a fact and not scaremongering
so it's guaranteed to happen following an IN vote, right? jeez talk about scaremongering
are you trying to tell me that this isnt going to happen? then why bring it up? oh right yeah, scaremongering :wave:
then you downgraded it to scaremongering
when in reality its just some bloke sat on his PC concerned about giving up out armed forces and leaving them in the full control of the EU
I understood what you were saying, but i found it entertaining you first said :
my scenario was suddenly a fact and not scaremongering
then you downgraded it to scaremongering
when in reality its just some bloke sat on his PC concerned about giving up out armed forces and leaving them in the full control of the EU
There was no downgrading. you clearly havent understood what I wrote. Please go back and read it again.
The majority in Brussels decide who they are going to bomb or not.
of course, once it has been agreed to hand power to them in the first place, correct.
put it this way, they wont have control of the army without consent from the uk parliament.
There was no downgrading. you clearly havent understood what I wrote. Please go back and read it again.
No, i dont want to do this again with someone else, but you wrote
it's funny, when economists warn against brexit, its scaremongering. When you talk about something far more far-fetched, it's fact. go figure
look at the above quote, you imply it wasnt scaremongering but was fact
so it's guaranteed to happen following an IN vote, right? jeez talk about scaremongering
are you trying to tell me that this isnt going to happen? then why bring it up? oh right yeah, scaremongering :wave:
then you call it scaremongering
No, i dont want to do this again with someone else, but you wrote
look at the above quote, you imply it wasnt scaremongering but was fact
then you call it scaremongering
There's where you arent understanding what I wrote.
There's where you arent understanding what I wrote.
i have to admit, i dont understand what you meant then
i have to admit, i dont understand what you meant then
yeah... me neither ha. But that bit in bold is the bit you're misunderstanding. (got there)
yeah... me neither ha. But that bit in bold is the bit you're misunderstanding. (got there)
reminds me of a kids show
If you dont know
and i dont know
who knows
a quick google tells me it was " Bits and Bobs "
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 20:37
of course, once it has been agreed to hand power to them in the first place, correct.
put it this way, they wont have control of the army without consent from the uk parliament.
What UK parliament? Under political unification all nations will cease to exist. I think you need to look into it a bit more :thumbup:
What UK parliament? Under political unification all nations will cease to exist. I think you need to look into it a bit more :thumbup:
ok, so lets go towards that. The parliament won't cease to exist until power is transferred to the EU parliament. They don't just take it by default. Perhaps you should brush up first :thumbup:
Wales-Bales
28-06-16, 20:47
ok, so lets go towards that. The parliament won't cease to exist until power is transferred to the EU parliament. They don't just take it by default. Perhaps you should brush up first :thumbup:
It will be a clean slate. You can't have 28 nations submitting pre-conditions. The United States of Europe will be a new country. If they say German will be the first language that is what will happen.
A single army (which Cameron said would never happen)
One central bank
No control of Criminal Law system
EU wide taxation.
No border controls whatsoever.
WE would not have shared Sovereignty - WE WOULD HAVE NO SOVEREIGNTY
A single army (which Cameron said would never happen)
One central bank
No control of Criminal Law system
EU wide taxation.
No border controls whatsoever.
WE would not have shared Sovereignty - WE WOULD HAVE NO SOVEREIGNTY
I'm not seeing the downside ?
Would citizens of a united states of Europe have more or less SOVEREIGNTY than those of the united states of America?
Mrs Steve R
01-07-16, 17:16
The Coudenhove-Kalergi plan
Have you seen any of the winners of theCoudenhove-Kalergi European Prize?
It will be a clean slate. You can't have 28 nations submitting pre-conditions. The United States of Europe will be a new country. If they say German will be the first language that is what will happen.
Can't see a National health service fitting in.
Wales-Bales
01-07-16, 17:20
I'm not seeing the downside ?
Would citizens of a united states of Europe have more or less SOVEREIGNTY than those of the united states of America?
You do realize that once the United States of Europe project is complete, it then moves onto the United States of Europe, Asia and the Middle-East, followed by Africa. This is a globalist project. And they are not coming up to our level, we are going down to theirs. What do you thing the financial crisis and austerity is all about?
You do realize that once the United States of Europe project is complete, it then moves onto the United States of Europe, Asia and the Middle-East, followed by Africa. This is a globalist project. And they are not coming up to our level, we are going down to theirs. What do you thing the financial crisis and austerity is all about?
Plenty more wild fantasy presented as fact again there.
Wales-Bales
01-07-16, 17:55
Plenty more wild fantasy presented as fact again there.
Mate, there are plenty of first person accounts, along with official and leaked documents on the internet, open your eyes and get your arse out of the BBC :thumbup:
Mate, there are plenty of first person accounts, along with official and leaked documents on the internet, open your eyes and get your arse out of the BBC :thumbup:
There's a lot of bullshit out there posted by fantasists as well.
In my experience most people who are into "alternative" news suffer even more from confirmation bias than most people.
Wales-Bales
01-07-16, 18:42
There's a lot of bullshit out there posted by fantasists as well.
In my experience most people who are into "alternative" news suffer even more from confirmation bias than most people.
So just ignore the "alternative" news and consult the actual documents and direct quotes :thumbup:
So just ignore the "alternative" news and consult the actual documents and direct quotes :thumbup:
If any ever get posted on here then I might.
Mrs Steve R
01-07-16, 23:18
If any ever get posted on here then I might.
Did you ever get around to looking at that Saving Syria's children stuff?
Mrs Steve R
04-07-16, 15:07
Have you seen any of the winners of theCoudenhove-Kalergi European Prize?
I thought WB would be straight on to google for this one :hehe:
life on mars
04-07-16, 17:54
Bring it on
Did you ever get around to looking at that Saving Syria's children stuff?
Not really, only had a chance to skim through it.
jonesalice34
07-07-16, 08:24
What do you think is going to be with property markets in the UK and the EU?
I believe in the slight fall of prices in England and Spain. Spain will suffer a wane of demand for real estate from British buyers who were extremely active in this market. And in London the weak pound will play its part to attract new foreign investors. A sad thing that common people will suffer at the end.
A good piece on the topic https://tranio.com/united-kingdom/news/real-estate-markets-could-wobble-as-uk-votes-to-leave-the-eu_5152/
Pay attention to the part "the real estate market in Britain may benefit from heightened foreign interest"
Wales-Bales
07-07-16, 09:56
What do you think is going to be with property markets in the UK and the EU?
I believe in the slight fall of prices in England and Spain. Spain will suffer a wane of demand for real estate from British buyers who were extremely active in this market. And in London the weak pound will play its part to attract new foreign investors. A sad thing that common people will suffer at the end.
A good piece on the topic https://tranio.com/united-kingdom/news/real-estate-markets-could-wobble-as-uk-votes-to-leave-the-eu_5152/
Pay attention to the part "the real estate market in Britain may benefit from heightened foreign interest"
Property is overpriced, but saying that houses are for living in, not financial instruments.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.