View Full Version : What is it with the declan john love in?
I just dont get this at all?
I can only put it down to him being Welsh?
If he wasnt Welsh he wouldnt get a mention?
He is no world beater and cannot play a traditional left back role because like Fabio he cant defend well enough.
Lets get real eh
I would usually agree, but- it looks like we might be going for wingbacks next season(reading far too much into the friendly) which I think would suit John , and Fabio much better than a back 4
Croesy Blue
18-07-16, 17:31
Of course he gets a bit more time because he's Welsh.
What's with the Russel Slade love in I can only put it down to you being a fat, bald waste of space too?
Croesy Blue
18-07-16, 17:32
What are people even judging John on the few games in the premier league he was thrown in at the deep end by an incompetent manager?
The lad obviously has talent just needs a run of games and some good coaching.
I just dont get this at all?
I can only put it down to him being Welsh?
If he wasnt Welsh he wouldnt get a mention?
He is no world beater and cannot play a traditional left back role because like Fabio he cant defend well enough.
Lets get real eh
Do you think Slade in all his wisdom gave him a chance,no because Slade did not and has not a clue about football.
CCFC CASUAL
18-07-16, 17:33
I would usually agree, but- it looks like we might be going for wingbacks next season(reading far too much into the friendly) which I think would suit John , and Fabio much better than a back 4
You might want to explain wing backs to young master Slade
I'd like to see him given another chance before making my mind up. Pretty difficult to judge from his appearances in a struggling Premier League side as an 18 year old.
thehumblegringo
18-07-16, 18:13
What are people even judging John on the few games in the premier league he was thrown in at the deep end by an incompetent manager?
The lad obviously has talent just needs a run of games and some good coaching.
I agree with this. He should never have been thrown in at the deep end the way he was, and the way he was just cast off by Ole and Slade is even more bizarre!
He started out as a left sided midfielder and was converted to a left back by Mackay. I thought he showed potential but had the confidence knocked out of him in the last two years. I think he still has potential and with the right coaching and guidance, and playing in the right system, will develop well. As a wing back or midfield player he can progress, but maybe not a s a traditional style left back in a back 4. He wasn't even given a sniff of a chance by Slade, who went out and bought Malone instead.
Of course he gets a bit more time because he's Welsh.
What's with the Russel Slade love in I can only put it down to you being a fat, bald waste of space too?
:hehe:
Hmm, I wonder why fans have an affection for a young, local player with potential
Hmm, I wonder why fans have an affection for a young, local player with potential
It will all end in tears you know. This unhealthy migration to Welsh players prompted in the main by the national sides achievements? Declan John is entering his 4th pro year and has played just 50 games inclding failed loans at two lower league clubs. Jazz Richards is 25 years old and has played 90 games in 6 seasons? Compare that to Peltier for example. Its nothing to do with Slade in Declans case he just cant play left back in a 442 system for us or anyone else.
It will all end in tears you know. This unhealthy migration to Welsh players prompted in the main by the national sides achievements? Declan John is entering his 4th pro year and has played just 50 games inclding failed loans at two lower league clubs. Jazz Richards is 25 years old and has played 90 games in 6 seasons? Compare that to Peltier for example. Its nothing to do with Slade in Declans case he just cant play left back in a 442 system for us or anyone else.
The only time we've really seen Declan John have a run in the first team was in the Premier League as an 18 year old (in a season we got relegated), that might be way he looked poor?
All of Richards' 88 league appearances have been at Championship level or above, is an international, and is only 25, before joining us, Peltier had only made 84 appearances at a level higher than League 1 and was 28, very comparable records
thehumblegringo
18-07-16, 20:51
It will all end in tears you know. This unhealthy migration to Welsh players prompted in the main by the national sides achievements? Declan John is entering his 4th pro year and has played just 50 games inclding failed loans at two lower league clubs. Jazz Richards is 25 years old and has played 90 games in 6 seasons? Compare that to Peltier for example. Its nothing to do with Slade in Declans case he just cant play left back in a 442 system for us or anyone else.
Peltier is a good defender in a rigid 4-4-2 system. He's strong and he's a good athlete but his use of the ball is awful.
He will be a great option to have when we go to places like Newcastle and Norwich but when you need to break stubborn defences down you need the full backs to join in and Peltier just hasn't got the technical ability to do this.
Bluebird since 1948
18-07-16, 22:54
I think lads who come up through the academy should be given more time to flourish. I'd give Declan another shot this season, we could easily bin him off in January if he's clearly not up to it.
the other bob wilson
19-07-16, 05:05
It will all end in tears you know. This unhealthy migration to Welsh players prompted in the main by the national sides achievements? Declan John is entering his 4th pro year and has played just 50 games inclding failed loans at two lower league clubs. Jazz Richards is 25 years old and has played 90 games in 6 seasons? Compare that to Peltier for example. Its nothing to do with Slade in Declans case he just cant play left back in a 442 system for us or anyone else.
I tell you what, it must be so frustrating for you to be so close to England, but not actually in it :hehe:.
What are people even judging John on the few games in the premier league he was thrown in at the deep end by an incompetent manager?
The lad obviously has talent just needs a run of games and some good coaching.
I'd love to think this is true, time will tell. There are plenty of players at DVP level that you sense straight away won't make it but I never felt that about Declan, even though you could see he needed to work on the defensive side of his game. It seems ludicrous to write a talented player off so young, especially as most of his games for us were played in a struggling side.
I suppose it would help our case if we could think of another Welsh player who found it hard as a teenage left back in the Premier League but then went on to better things. I can only think of this one though, any idea what happened to him?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221871/Spurs-flop-Gareth-Bale-January-Birmingham-boss-Alex-McLeish-eyes-3m-defender.html
Agree with OP, he can't defend. However whenever I've seen him play he always looks dangerous going forward, very direct, never afraid to take a player on. Would work well in a a 5-3-2 formation should Trollope adopt the Wales set up. The boy is still very young with little game time, I hate how we always jump to conclusions that a player is not worth a chance when he's had so little time to prove himself at such a young age. Let's not forget the only significant time he had playing for Cardiff he was thrown straight into the Premiership in the first few weeks!
He started out as a left sided midfielder and was converted to a left back by Mackay. I thought he showed potential but had the confidence knocked out of him in the last two years. I think he still has potential and with the right coaching and guidance, and playing in the right system, will develop well. As a wing back or midfield player he can progress, but maybe not a s a traditional style left back in a back 4. He wasn't even given a sniff of a chance by Slade, who went out and bought Malone instead.
Totally agree with this.
Slade paid money for two very average full backs, both of which struggle at Championship level.
Let's hope Trollope can help develop this guy further.
I am all for more "home grown" talent.
Totally agree with this.
Slade paid money for two very average full backs, both of which struggle at Championship level.
Let's hope Trollope can help develop this guy further.
I am all for more "home grown" talent.
Slade paid just £100k for Malone who you describe as very average and we finished in the top 8. We have just swapped Malone for Richards so what does that make Richards apart from being Welsh???
I tell you what, it must be so frustrating for you to be so close to England, but not actually in it :hehe:.
Well if thats the best you can do I feel sorry for you. Just think about the team we had when we won the championship. Two proper centre backs and two good full backs in Kev and Taylor. Both could do what Declan & Fabio can do and get forward but they could both also defend properly. Hence a record number of clean sheets. Anyone who is seriously suggesting we will be good enough to challenge for this league with the defence we are going to put out and a goalie as a captain is deluded.
thehumblegringo
19-07-16, 11:29
Well if thats the best you can do I feel sorry for you. Just think about the team we had when we won the championship. Two proper centre backs and two good full backs in Kev and Taylor. Both could do what Declan & Fabio can do and get forward but they could both also defend properly. Hence a record number of clean sheets. Anyone who is seriously suggesting we will be good enough to challenge for this league with the defence we are going to put out and a goalie as a captain is deluded.
So cos that's how we won the championship that's the only way a team can play.
Think back to the Barcelona team who have been dominant for the last decade and not only have they got full backs who can't defend but for the most part their centre backs can't defend that we'll either!
I'm not advocating we follow this but it just shows the flaws in your logic. What type of full backs we need will depend on how we intend to set up and judging by the signing and the use of Declan John and Fabio we are obviously looking to be far more fluid in our approach compared to what we were u derby Malky
Totally agree with this.
Slade paid money for two very average full backs, both of which struggle at Championship level.
Let's hope Trollope can help develop this guy further.
I am all for more "home grown" talent.
Surely Trollope was already developing the kid. Will it change much for him?
the other bob wilson
19-07-16, 13:02
Well if thats the best you can do I feel sorry for you. Just think about the team we had when we won the championship. Two proper centre backs and two good full backs in Kev and Taylor. Both could do what Declan & Fabio can do and get forward but they could both also defend properly. Hence a record number of clean sheets. Anyone who is seriously suggesting we will be good enough to challenge for this league with the defence we are going to put out and a goalie as a captain is deluded.
Couple of things, first, I think Matt Connolly was our right back for most of that season, not Super Kev, second, what you describe is what we had for nearly two seasons under Slade. As I've said plenty of times before, Slade had a luxury few managers get when we had two months worth of games with nothing on them at the end of 14/15 - a great chance to experiment with personnel and systems you would have thought.
For example, we have/had strength in depth at centreback that we didn't have in other areas, so why not use a Wales like system which enabled us to get three of our better players into the team where only two of them were featuring previously? Such a system would also allow Fabio and Malone more of a chance to play to what is, arguably, the strongest part of their game - who knows, Declan John may have got a game as well.
Of course, anything like that was always going to be a step too far for a manager who has made a decent career for himself by steering his team into mid table mediocrity year in, year out - Russell Slade, better than some, but worse than many.
Croesy Blue
19-07-16, 14:10
I think describing Taylor as a good full back who can attack and defend negates the whole argument immediately
life on mars
19-07-16, 14:14
We want " one of our own " do do well ,not complicated
life on mars
19-07-16, 14:28
Couple of things, first, I think Matt Connolly was our right back for most of that season, not Super Kev, second, what you describe is what we had for nearly two seasons under Slade. As I've said plenty of times before, Slade had a luxury few managers get when we had two months worth of games with nothing on them at the end of 14/15 - a great chance to experiment with personnel and systems you would have thought.
For example, we have/had strength in depth at centreback that we didn't have in other areas, so why not use a Wales like system which enabled us to get three of our better players into the team where only two of them were featuring previously? Such a system would also allow Fabio and Malone more of a chance to play to what is, arguably, the strongest part of their game - who knows, Declan John may have got a game as well.
Of course, anything like that was always going to be a step too far for a manager who has made a decent career for himself by steering his team into mid table mediocrity year in, year out - Russell Slade, better than some, but worse than many.
I would agree , however Malky also had the luxury of cash which in my view blind - sided him , and he wasted , he should have kept the nucleolus of the promotion side together as squad members ,as a minimum such as Super Kev , Hudson , Rudy . Rall's should have been used and developed that season as well ,at least Slade fixed that one .
OGS also had the luxury of some cash, but was probably even more clueless about tactics than Slade ,which you could question after playing at such a high level . Finally we have DJ king of the loans scheme and aging premiership players rather than taking a punt or developing youngsters , not wanting to take a punt on Ramsey or Gunter in the first team for me was inexcusable who were well ahead of the skill factor than John and many youngsters at that age.
I prey we have learned the lessons as a club , I am more than willing for a lean year or two , if its is one of development of younger ,vibrant talent , preferably Welsh , just in the way Wales attained its current status . .
I just dont get this at all?
I can only put it down to him being Welsh?
If he wasnt Welsh he wouldnt get a mention?
He is no world beater and cannot play a traditional left back role because like Fabio he cant defend well enough.
Lets get real eh
He needs to prove himself. Personally I favour Fabio. Both players could make the claim that being first choice with a run of games will improve their performance. Time is not on either's side. Their mistakes cannot loses us points.
Sadly, there have been to many matches where we have given away goals through defensive lapses on the left.
In part because there are more good right wide players / wingers than there are left.
So, whoever is started with needs to keep an eye over their shoulder.
I think describing Taylor as a good full back who can attack and defend negates the whole argument immediately
WIth all respect you are talking absolute bollox.
I think describing Taylor as a good full back who can attack and defend negates the whole argument immediately
Taylor was one of the best left backs we have had in recent years
I would agree , however Malky also had the luxury of cash which in my view blind - sided him , and he wasted , he should have kept the nucleolus of the promotion side together as squad members ,as a minimum such as Super Kev , Hudson , Rudy . Rall's should have been used and developed that season as well ,at least Slade fixed that one .
OGS also had the luxury of some cash, but was probably even more clueless about tactics than Slade ,which you could question after playing at such a high level . Finally we have DJ king of the loans scheme and aging premiership players rather than taking a punt or developing youngsters , not wanting to take a punt on Ramsey or Gunter in the first team for me was inexcusable who were well ahead of the skill factor than John and many youngsters at that age.
I prey we have learned the lessons as a club , I am more than willing for a lean year or two , if its is one of development of younger ,vibrant talent , preferably Welsh , just in the way Wales attained its current status . .
Bit harsh on DJ for Gunter and Ramsey. Both of them got game time under him- Ramsey as a 16 year old. And both would have played a lot more if they hadn't been sold off
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